Saving Unreadable DVD's Part Deux

[hitechluddite]

HEY Y'ALL!

After Trying ISObuster which often works but is painfully slow and doing the drag & drop to the HDD which is fast but often fails I decided to try nero copy disc with the following settings and this seems to work on all but the really bad discs. Read with check for errors selected, 2 attempts to read bad sectors and ingore bad sectors. This almost always gives me an iso that will burn a new disk. If I get a cluster of bad blocks (ex LBA 1387536-1387616 reported I just cancel the operation but if I get just a bunch of single LBA reports at different points I let it go. I have tried 2 of these discs and they play all the way through without locking up. I am going to sit down tonight and watch something to see if I can detect anything missing or playback errors.

Anybody know the result of burning with an ISO containing bad sector material?

[tomlee59]

Not sure what you are expecting as an answer, which is: It depends. The image is a complete representation of the original data. If that data has errors, so will the burned physical result based on the image. If the errors are bad enough, or in the wrong places, the burner may refuse to burn the image, or the resulting disc may not mount.

So, "you pays your money and you takes your choice."

[hitechluddite]

I guess I'm just wondering when the level of error will be high enough to notice. All the discs that I've created an iso with that had some random errors that didn't take up multiple sectors have mounted and played on my computer and both stand alone DVD players without hanging up. So I wonder if just a couple seconds of the source are skipped or what..... Tonight I'm watching one all the way through but I don't know the source well enough to tell if anything is missing, unles it's a major hunk of the movie...

Thanks

[tomlee59]

Again, whether or not the errors will be noticeable depends on so many factors that it isn't possible to say anything specific. It's similar to a car that has manufacturing defects -- just the number of them doesn't tell us much about whether we'll notice them. If there's one error in the upholstery stitching, we won't see it, but if there's a flaw in a connecting rod, we probably will.

And so it is with DVDs. If the errors are few and spread out, then you may not notice much, if anything. If there are clusters of errors, you may see stutters, stalls, macroblocks, or outright crashing. Depends on how the errors are distributed, as well as their number.

[hitechluddite]

I know what ya mean tom, I'm just colecting data and I'll share my findings here for anyone who runs accross this in the future. i watched Commando tonight which was a burn from one of the discs containing some bad blocs and didn't notice a thing. I'm going to note the error rate and play back disc burns from increasing error counts to try and find some sort of range that will determine when the error count becomes noticeable....

[INFRATOM]

If your original problem was from scratched disc, polishing does wonders. If done right with the right paste and cloth you get a mirror finish. you may find Commando movie in one of those walmart bins 2 for $5 deal. Once I found a rare movie that I was looking for years for $1

[AlanHK]

Try IsoPuzzle.

If the disc is readable, it is just as fast as any other disc copying app, but if damaged, it will keep retrying forever, or until you stop it. Each retry it usually picks up a few more bytes.

For a scratched up disc, if IsoPuzzle is stalling after a few hours (yes, it can take hours), give it a polish. I use Brasso, which has given me excellent results. But it DOES ABRADE THE SURFACE -- that's the whole idea -- so only use it when all else fails.

Don't hold it in your hand when polishing, flexing the disc can cause cracks, have it on a flat board. Rinse clean and continue with IsoPuzzle (it will keep adding to the data it has).

You can read the data in the ISO file it makes with ISObuster, or if it's 100% complete, just drop it in a burning app and make a new disc -- But shutdown IsoPuzzle before accessing the file with another app.

As for playing discs made from incomplete files, DVD players will try to recover from errors. You may see some glitches, but if the bad section is not too big it will get back in sync and keep playing.

[hitechluddite]

Alan, Thanks for this bit
"Don't hold it in your hand when polishing, flexing the disc can cause cracks, have it on a flat board. Rinse clean and continue with IsoPuzzle (it will keep adding to the data it has). "

Never thought about that and I have been cleaning every disc before I put it into the player by holding the edges and wiping it off with lens paper and microscope lens cleaning solution. I'll start using my flat desk top for a brace. THANKS!

These discs are all like new having been burned then immediatley put into black latching library style cases there are NO physical blemishes on the discs. These discs were burnt between Nov 05 and last month when I discovered that there were compatibility issues. To make matters worse I labeled all of them so I have out of balance and jitter to worry about on multispeed drives. I've got 100 TY-G02 white label on order and they should arrive todday so it's time to start building again. A direct label printer is the next item on the list. Tonight I'm watching Mask which had one section with a 160 bloc trange of errors to see if andwhat that causes to happen during playback...

[fritzi93]

To make matters worse I labeled all of them so I have out of balance and jitter to worry about on multispeed drives.

If you mean stick-on paper labels, that's your *entire* problem right there. :P

Try a search on sticky labels, read the lengthy threads, then start removing the labels. Your DVDs will now play fine if you don't bugger them getting the labels off. Good luck.

[AlanHK]

Alan, Thanks for this bit
"Don't hold it in your hand when polishing, flexing the disc can cause cracks, have it on a flat board. Rinse clean and continue with IsoPuzzle (it will keep adding to the data it has). "

Never thought about that and I have been cleaning every disc before I put it into the player by holding the edges and wiping it off with lens paper and microscope lens cleaning solution. I'll start using my flat desk top for a brace. THANKS!

Well, probably wiping gently is not a risk. When polishing though you do use a lot of pressure. I destroyed a disc doing that, before I realised that holding it in my hand while rubbing it was causing radial cracks.

[citanool]

"...flat board..." makes me cringe, as scratches to the label side can cause problems. To minimize the risk, I like to use the freshly wiped corner area of a mouse pad on the corner of my desk while rotating and scrubbing.

[AlanHK]

"...flat board..." makes me cringe, as scratches to the label side can cause problems. To minimize the risk, I like to use the freshly wiped corner area of a mouse pad on the corner of my desk while rotating and scrubbing.

Depends what kind of mouse pad, but I'd suggest not a soft one. The idea is to prevent the disc's flexing.
But anyway a clean wooden board is no more likely to scratch.

[hitechluddite]

Try a search on sticky labels, read the lengthy threads, then start removing the labels. Your DVDs will now play fine if you don't bugger them getting the labels off. Good luck.

I know labels can be a problem in multispeed drives due to the rotation speed of the discs but in a 1X standalone I didn't think it would be a problem. I had a decent system that centered them nearly perfectly but now that there are direct to disc printers it's not an issue. I am getting them all onto HDD now and that is the best way to archive them. I'll just pick up another 500gb HDD so I can mirrror them and I'm good to go....

[SLK001]

"...flat board..." makes me cringe, as scratches to the label side can cause problems. To minimize the risk, I like to use the freshly wiped corner area of a mouse pad on the corner of my desk while rotating and scrubbing.

Since we are talking DVDs here, a scratch on the label side (unless it is 0.050" deep) will NOT cause any problems. Unlike a CD, the reflecting surface is now sandwiched under a protective plastic layer. On a CD, the reflective layer is right under the top layer, so a scratch here will virtually destroy a CD.

[lordsmurf]

Do these:
1. Get the disc re-surfaced at a shop. It's an expensive machine. Do NOT use one of those piece-of-crap devices from Walmart, Best Buy, etc
2. Put the disc in a good reader drive, such as the Pioneer 111 burner, or any BTC DVD-ROM or burner
3. Use ISO Puzzle software. Set it for 10 hours of retries, cycle the tray, and allow cool down. Most discs will now read within 2-3 hours max. Any longer, and you're wasting time and hurting the drive.

Varying too much from this method will not return results.

[hitechluddite]

OK I did a search on labels but did not see this addressed. There were a couple of disc's that would not read that were recorded in 06. In both cases they were Fuji Stock TY-G02 disc's. I really wanted the material so I tried to remove the labels. In both cases not all the label would come off but the discs still read better with half a label. If labels are a balance issue like some suggest why did the partial removal of a label give a better read?

The only thing I can think of is some speed tracking sensor on the topside of the disc that regulates sped is thrown off by the label's reflective properties...

Just curious....

[fritzi93]

No, it's not a balance issue, it's warping. You bond two dissimilar materials and change some environmental variable, e.g. temperature or relative humidity and you get warping. Think about how a bi-metal thermostat works, it's precisely the same phenomenon.

Since paper has almost no compression strength, but considerable tensile strength, the result is concavity on the label side.

There is still some room for disagreement as to just how important this is. But I've observed it myself, and no longer label any DVDs. I'm convinced it's a thoroughly bad practice to use sticky labels.

[EDIT] A mild solvent like mineral spirits, or even WD-40 will break down the glue on the label. Soaking in warm soapy water will work if you give it enough time.

[tomlee59]

OK I did a search on labels but did not see this addressed. There were a couple of disc's that would not read that were recorded in 06. In both cases they were Fuji Stock TY-G02 disc's. I really wanted the material so I tried to remove the labels. In both cases not all the label would come off but the discs still read better with half a label. If labels are a balance issue like some suggest why did the partial removal of a label give a better read?

The only thing I can think of is some speed tracking sensor on the topside of the disc that regulates sped is thrown off by the label's reflective properties...

Just curious....

There is no optical speed sensor, so the label has no effect on that. The most likely explanation is related to balance or warping. If the disc wobbles badly, that makes the focus and track-following servos go nuts trying to keep the laser in focus and on track while the target gyrates wildly.

Removing some of the label improved things simply because the disc probably wobbled or warped less. And had you succeeded in getting the labels completely off, my guess is that it would have behaved better still, unless the bit-error rates were already low enough.

[hitechluddite]

Yep, Live and learn! I've almost got everything RIPPED now and lost less than half my original material, and nothing that was irreplacable I probably could've cut that rate if I revisited some of my early failures but my 4yr old had other plans for the "bad" discs!

[GSP_87]

Are there some DVD players or DVD drives that are better at reading dud or dvd rot discs? I have 3 store bought DVD's (Image Entertainment) that won't play on Panasonic A120 (old player that can't play light green CD-R, but can play blue CD-R and purple DVD-R), Philips 724 (can play CD-R), PlayStation 2, Dell laptop, but one of them played on Dell desktop. For the discs that wouldn't play, the Dell desktop was able to read the disc info, but not play. I don't know what brand/model that DVD drive is.

[lordsmurf]

Yes, BTC burners and ROM drives are known for read quality.
The Pioneer 111 drive is pretty good too, best of all the Pioneers from my tests.

[MaxxFordham]

There were a couple of disc's...
Fuji Stock TY-G02 disc's...
Just curious....

Also, since plain plurals don't have apostrophes, then "disc's" there needs none, therefore just being "discs," instead. I know this isn't English class and I'm not a teacher, but I still couldn't help but letting you know that for future reference.


Okay, now back to talking about recovering discs.