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# Does anyone have an idiots guide to converting telecined dvd's please!

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1. I've got a dozen or so DVD's that are telecined, so when I convert them to xvid or x264 they playback badly. I have a basic understanding of why it does it as a few people on here have mentioned it in other posts I've had. However, I cannot find a straight forward, idiot proof guide to how I convert one of these files! Can anyone give me any pointers please!

Thanks!
2. Anyone?

Just which filter to use and how to apply it? Thanks.
3. It might help if you clarified what these dvd's are.

Are they PAL or NTSC ?

Are you seeing interlacing (combing) on your conversions or something else.
4. Yeah, this question is confusing, coming from someone in the UK. In NTSC countries, there are indeed issues with the 24fps-to-30fps telecine conversion process, but in PAL countries, it's all 25fps, isn't it? Emanef, can you provide some more info about your DVDs, and if they came from the US or anyplace other than the UK?

Perhaps it is not a telecine issue, but (as DB83 mentioned) it may be interlacing artifact. Xvid doesn't handle deinterlaced video very well.
5. A small 10 second sample of the source might help. Open a VOB in DGIndex, scroll to a place with movement and use the [ and ] buttons to isolate a small section. Then File->Save Project And Demux Video. Upload the resulting M2V to a 3rd party hosting site, like MediaFire, and post the link here.
6. Yes, sorry. I am in the UK, but there are a handfull of dvd's I want to convert that are having the similar issue. They are a mixture of PAL and NTSC, some R1 and some R3. Off my head they include House of Flying Daggers, Zatoichi, City of Lost Souls, Shaolin Soccer, Final Fantasy Advent Children, City of God (R3, I think NTSC), INterstate 60, The Dead Zone, (R1 NTSC), It's a Wonderful Life, The Abyss and Tokyo Drifter (R2 PAL).

Off to work but will try to upload a few examples tonight.

Thanks
7. First, it ain't easy, simple, or perfect. There are several methods and much information available on this subject, IVTC is what you should be looking for. InverseTelecine. AVISYNTH methods seemed to be best.

However, DVD which are truly telecined are fairly rare, that you would have so many of them raises a red flag.

Describe ripping and conversion methods in detail. If somewhere in the chain you are observing the pulldown flag, you may be causing your own problem.
8. Originally Posted by Nelson37
However, DVD which are truly telecined are fairly rare
Not for someone using a DVD recorder.
9. Originally Posted by Nelson37
However, DVD which are truly telecined are fairly rare, that you would have so many of them raises a red flag.
And not if you're dealing with R3 DVDs. However, I also suspect he has some field-blended DVDs. My own R3 House of Flying Daggers is an example. This has to be worked on on a case-by-case basis, which is why samples are needed.
10. OK, thanks for the replies guys.

Firstly, this is the method I use…..

I rip the DVD using DVDFab, ripping in movie mode. I usually then let Staxrip create the d2v file (although sometimes if it’s encoding and I want to get a few ready I’ll do that part manually using DGIndex).

I have Staxrip set to x264 2 pass high quality CRF setting. I then run compressibility check and convert to the size/quality I want for each movie. That’s pretty much it really!

I’ve used MediaInfo to check the formats of the files I’m struggling with, and are as follows:

PAL, 25fps:
City of Lost Souls
Final Fantasy same
Ghost in the Shell
Wonderful Life
The Abyss
Tokyo Drifter

NTSC, 29.970 fps:
Interstate 60 (actually, this may have just been audio sync - ingore that one!)
Shaolin Soccer
The Dead Zone
Flying Daggers
Zatoichi

There are a few others but I need to re-rip them, but most of them are Asian R3 so probably the same as the above NTSC ones.

So are these not telecined? I just noticed a filter option for IVTC in Staxrip, (along with FieldDeinterlace, TomsMoComp & Yadif – I’ll see if I can find out what they are)). I’ll try using that, see if it makes a difference. Is it worth manually doing the DGIndex bit on these and setting force movie mode?

I've got four examples, but Media Fire is down for maintenance, so I'll look for somewhere to host them and post back in a while.
11. OK, found somewhere....
They're here:

Edited:
Uploaded smaller files, see post further down for link, thanks.
12. So are these not telecined?
Depends on the DVD. The PAL ones aren't telecined. NTSC movies are almost by definition telecined. Unless from a PAL and field-blended source. And any decent quality NTSC movie DVD won't need a full IVTC but can usually just use a DGIndex Forced Film to get them back to progressive 23.976fps. That is, most decent R1 DVDs are encoded as progressive 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown flags added so they output interlaced 29.97fps. Many R3 NTSC DVDs are encoded as interlaced 29.97fps and don't have the pulldown flags. Those are the ones that (unless field-blended) will need the IVTC.
13. I said a 10 second sample of the source. No one needs much to figure out what you have. And I suggested MediaFire and not FileFactory which makes you jump through hoops before you can get the sample and then gives it to you so slowly that it takes 6 minutes to get a lousy 32MB sample.

The Tokyo Drifter sample is field blended NTSC2PAL garbage and needs to be unblended to look at all decent. It's a lousy DVD anyway and the R1 Criterion of it, while not anamorphic, looks better than this. The best available versions are probably the 2 UK PAL DVDs of this film, both 16:9.

Now FileFactory wants me to wait 6 minutes before even beginning the download of the Zatoichi one (which is 51MB in size(!)). My suggestion is to start over. Make 10 second samples. Find samples that actually have some movement. And then upload them to MediaFire. If not, then perhaps someone else is willing to help.
14. OK, sorry, I couldn't find a time line in DGIndex and did it as small as I could get it, and looked for places where I could see the blurs.

I'll do them smaller. Mediafire was down for maintenance when I tried, which is why I used the other one.
15. Zatoichi.m2v is a straightforward hard telecine with 3:2 pulldown.
16. Originally Posted by jagabo
Zatoichi.m2v is a straightforward hard telecine with 3:2 pulldown.
Ah, ok, thanks. So what's the best way of sorting that one out?
17. Originally Posted by Emanef
Originally Posted by jagabo
Zatoichi.m2v is a straightforward hard telecine with 3:2 pulldown.
Ah, ok, thanks. So what's the best way of sorting that one out?
I would probably do it manually in AviSynth but I recommend you try the Yadif IVTC method in Staxrip.
18. I've tried Zatoichi, using both the YADIF IVTC and the IVTC filters in Staxrip (ie I did two seperate conversions). Both are pretty much the same; they've got rid of the zigzaggin, but now they're quite jerky on playback, especially screens panning across. Any suggestions?

When you say its a straight forward hard telecine with 3:2 pulldown....what does that mean exactly and what's the best way to deal with them?

I've reedited the orginal files I uploaded to make them shorter and smaller, and they're now here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c7539cc8e8bf94c1d2db6fb9a8902bda
19. Originally Posted by Emanef
When you say its a straight forward hard telecine with 3:2 pulldown....what does that mean exactly...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#2:3_pulldown

Originally Posted by Emanef
I've tried Zatoichi, using both the YADIF IVTC and the IVTC filters in Staxrip (ie I did two seperate conversions). Both are pretty much the same; they've got rid of the zigzaggin, but now they're quite jerky on playback, especially screens panning across. Any suggestions?
I would have expected Yadif to do pretty well. Is there a field order setting in Staxrip? If so, try the opposite field order.
20. Er, not sure. I can't seem to find one.

I also tried using Yadif on my laptop to do Secretary, and that's similar. The lines have gone, but it's slow and sticky playback, esp on panning.
21. It's probably because the extra frames are still retained, and you still are at 29.97 causing the jerky playback

For zatoichi you can use tfm().tdecimate() in avisynth (at least it seems ok for that section)

Code:
LoadPlugin("PATH\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("Zatoichi.d2v")
tfm(order=-1).tdecimate()
I'm not too familar with staxrip, but I assume it can accept .avs scripts. If it doesn't there are many other front ends that do accepts avs scripts
22. Here's a "manual" IVTC with the following script and VirtualDub.

MPEG2Source("Zatoichi.demuxed.d2v")
Trim(6,0) #removed some bad frames at the start
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields().SelectEvery(10, 1,2, 4,5, 6,7, 8,9).Weave()
LanczosResize(720,368)
zatoichi.avi

Yadif() gave me similar results.
23. Thanks for redoing them. Now they're much easier to get, are smaller in size, easier to download, and download about 6 times faster.

Zatoichi - Hard telecined and, as mentioned, just needs a simple IVTC:

TFM()
TDecimate()

Tokyo Drifter - Converted from an NTSC source and field-blended:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=24)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95924
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Srestore

City Of Lost Souls - Converted from an NTSC source and field-blended:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=24)

House Of Flying Daggers - Converted from a PAL source and field-blended:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=25)

You have good taste in films. But not in DVDs. Before buying you should check out the different versions available:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/
http://www.dvd-basen.dk/uk/home.php3

I have all of those films on DVD, and all in much better versions than what you're showing us. Except for the Tokyo Drifter which, while better than yours, isn't 16:9. As I mentioned earlier, and since you're in the UK, you might be better off getting one of the UK versions. And I also bought the same funky Chinese House Of Flying Daggers DVD before the much better R1 version came out.
24. Thanks manono!
Firstly, how do you identify what sort each video is?

I need to work out how to use/edit scripts with Staxrip (or use an alternative program I guess). I'll see what I can find. I've just found another, a region 3 NTSC version of Hard Boiled.

I used to buy loads of dvd's from places like CDWow when they were really cheap, and they often had Asian dvd's very cheap. I guess they weren't such a bargain when you compare the quality of some of them, but often they were only out over there when I bought them!
25. Firstly, how do you identify what sort each video is?
First you run the Preview in DGIndex. If it shows as Film/Progressive then you use Forced Film and get the D2V as 23.976fps. Otherwise if PAL or if it shows as NTSC/Interlaced, make the D2V using Honor Pulldown Flags. Then you make the script and open it in VDub(Mod). I bob the video (Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)). Then I have a look and count. If it's goes 2-3-2-3 with clean frames, it just needs an IVTC. If PAL but looked interlaced when just examing frames but goes 2-2-2-2 with clean frames when bobbed, it needs the fields aligned properly (TFM() by itself). If the bobbed fields are blended/ghosted then you know some sort of a funky conversion was done on the video. For PAL DVDs it's almost always a conversion from 24fps Film. For NTSC DVDs it's usually a conversion from 24.975fps or 25fps PAL. But sometimes they had an NTSC source and it's field-blended from 23.976->29.97fps. To figure which, start counting. If 2-3-2-3, the "base" framerate is 23.976fps. If 2-3-2-2-3-2-2-3, the "base" framerate is 24.975fps or 25fps. To figure which, generally the one that produces a video with fewer resulting blended frames is the better one, but that can be real tough to figure out. In such cases, although 24.975fps is by far the more common (and what the RePAL filter produces, which is what I usually use), 25fps may be the safer one as it's better to get a duplicate frame every now and again than to remove a unique frame. Plus, 25fps allows for some unblend screwups.

That covers the vast majority of movie DVDs. If not a movie but shot on video, then you might have other problems. If anime, and especially if from an anime TV series, you might have a hybrid (a mix of film and video) which can present its own special set of problems. If a silent film, then the "base" framerate can be something other than 23.976fps (NTSC) or 25fps (PAL), and they're sometimes blended as well. Sometimes (rarely, thank goodness) you'll get something that's gone through a couple of conversions and is doubly blended. There are no perfect solutions for that. And there are other strange things out there as well.
26. OK, this is where I need to slow you down....!

I'm attempting a vob from City of Lost Souls first. I've created the d2v file, then created a blank avs file and chucked in:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=24)

and saved the file with the same filename as the vob. If I try to open the avs file in VdubMod but it says
"Avisynth open failure:
Script erro; there is no function named "Yadif"
(F:\MainMovie\lost souls.avs, line 1)"

Presumably I need to tell it the path of the Yadif.dll in the Avisynth folder and the path of the .d2v file?

Do you know if there's like a list of scripts that I can use and edit the paths, etc? That might explain what info is being used as well.
27. Yadif() needs to be imported with:
Code:
Load_Stdcall_plugin("X:\path\to\file\yadif.dll")
Put that near the top of your script. Obviously, change the drive letter and path. So you script will look something like

Code:
Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\filters\yadif.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\filters\SRestore.avs")
MPEG2Source("filename.d2v")
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=24)
SRestore() probably uses other filters that need to be imported if they are not in your AviSynth Plugins folder.
28. OK, I've got my script as

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avs")
MPEG2Source("F:\MainMovie\lost souls.d2v")
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=24)

I had to get the SRestore.avs from http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Srestore.
It now says
"Script error: there is no function named "mt_makediff""

Is there a collection of often used plugins that can be downloaded and chucked into the plugins folder in one go?
29. The prerequisite filters for SRestore and links are listed on the mediawiki. You need masktools2, tivtc, remove grain, average.

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Srestore

Also downloading a bunch of plugins is not a good strategy. Just install the ones you need. You can get conflict issues. This has happened to me more than once, where I had to clean out the directory and/or reinstall. It's similar to installing codec packs.

You can find links to many plugins on the media wiki, and here
http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/
30. Originally Posted by poisondeathray
Also downloading a bunch of plugins is not a good strategy. Just install the ones you need. You can get conflict issues.
There's also a limit (at least there used to be) on how many filters will auto-load from the plugins folder. I think it's about 50. And the more filters you have in the plugins folder the longer it takes for AviSynth to start up.

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