QAM (tuner/capture); decrypting signals; cablecard info please?

[Nator]

I already have a Hauppauge PVR350 and it's a rather decent card that has served me well for what I've used it for. That said...

I'm considering getting a Hauppauge HVR-950Q (model 1191), which is a USB TV tuner device. The USB allows for using it in different computers, including laptops, without the need for an external power supply (like the HVR-1950).
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr950q.html

I want to know if anyone has tried it AND tried a different product of similar nature. It's easy enough to find reviews from people who have used one product and been happy with it, a bit harder to find someone who has used multiple products and can personally give a comparison from experience.

The goal is to be able to watch and possibly record HDTV on the computer. I'm aware that Hauppauge either doesn't support changing bitrates/etc when recording HD or certain products don't (ie, records exactly as it is received) and I know that it expects 5gb of space for a 1hour recording. Just so I don't look completely stupid here.


Next, trying to look into some way of decrypting the channels via my cable provider - that I am LEGALLY able to watch. On this, I'm aware that this is a bit more complicated, thus the next part of the post...

Is there a device available that either accepts a cablecard or requires no cablecard (thus being authorized/registered via my cable provider) that I could use that would open up the encrypted channels so that I could use my HDTV (QAM tuner but not DCR) or my computer via a QAM tuner device (such as the HVR-950Q)? It probably doesn't exist but the concept I'm thinking of is in essence like a middlebox with the main purpose to allow me to watch the channels that I'm allowed to via but without using a STB for the channel selections.


Same as above, except for the computer only (USB preferred but 1394 or PCI (not PCI-E) acceptable). For the computer though, want there to be support for recording from the HD channels.


In case I haven't made it clear, I'm not looking for anything illegal, so for anyone who knows of illegal ways, thanks but no thanks. I only want to get the channels that I can get normally. If I happen to get extra channels by legal means, that's fine, but again nothing illegal.


I'm just now starting to dabble into the HD area and while I'm looking for high quality, I'm not looking for $1,000 solutions.

I did come across one top that included links to a review about a cablecard ready ATI tuner card based system, but I'm not a big fan of ATI as I've had issues with their past tuner cards (most notably, output to TV would yield a black line at the bottom of the screen). If ATI has fixed its issues from the past then I might be open to trying them again.


Okay, I think I'm done making myself look like an idiot. I swear I'm not stupid, the proof of that should be the fact that I'm asking for help and doing my best to be clear on what little I know and what I'm looking for.

[edDV]

...

Next, trying to look into some way of decrypting the channels via my cable provider - that I am LEGALLY able to watch. On this, I'm aware that this is a bit more complicated, thus the next part of the post...

Is there a device available that either accepts a cablecard or requires no cablecard (thus being authorized/registered via my cable provider) that I could use that would open up the encrypted channels so that I could use my HDTV (QAM tuner but not DCR) or my computer via a QAM tuner device (such as the HVR-950Q)? It probably doesn't exist but the concept I'm thinking of is in essence like a middlebox with the main purpose to allow me to watch the channels that I'm allowed to via but without using a STB for the channel selections.

Nothing that works with existing tuners. These are for use in a specific MCE OCUR compliant PC.

Consider these in beta rather than widely supported. Also they are expensive first generation boxes.

http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonderdigital/index.html
http://www.pvrwire.com/2007/01/08/ati-announces-two-cablecard-tuners/
http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/cablecardtuner.html
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/mediacenter/cablecard.mspx
http://www.gearlog.com/2007/12/dell_xps_420_adds_cheap_cablec.php
http://msmvps.com/blogs/chrisl/archive/2008/04/14/1586286.aspx

Same as above, except for the computer only (USB preferred but 1394 or PCI (not PCI-E) acceptable). For the computer though, want there to be support for recording from the HD channels.

Some local cable systems allow recording from the cablebox IEEE-1394 port for some channels (DVHS MPeg2 TS format).

Other solutions record from the component analog outputs of the cable box. The good/bad thing about the Hauppauge HD-PVR is it records to h.264 (less HD space, but more difficult to edit).
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

[Nelson37]

The reviews I have read on the cablecard boxes usually involve multiple technicians from several companies taking days to get one working. The latest review did actually end with the device working, sort of.

Having used both a Hauppage (PVR 1600) and an ATI AIW (multiple models) card, I'll offer an opinion. The Hauppage records LARGE files directly as feed to the box, in HD. The ATI is connected to an S-Video feed from the Sat box or a Digital Converter box from OTA HD channels. The video quality is very, very close with the ATI files being much more manageable and DVD-Ready. Files are encoded to MPG in real-time, in most cases IVTC'd, widescreen.

Converting the Hauppage files to H264 regains the filesize advantage while losing the quality battle and still no DVD playability.

The Hauppage has been removed and sits on a shelf.

[yoda313]

FYI the pinnace pctv hd usb sticks offer an advantage the original poster may be interested in - it can record ota hd to dvd format WITH 5.1 audio. I don't know if it has qam support however.

The impressive thing about the pinnacle hd sticks is that the resulting mpeg2 file has 5.1 audio and reproduces widescreen video perfectly.

Like I said I don't know if it has a qam tuner or not. There may be newer models that do.

[edDV]

The "Ultimate" version of the Pinnacle USB tuner stick has always said ClearQAM is provisioned for a future release. Last I looked the package still says that.

Just looked at their site. It now says ClearQam is supported. Anyone have this stick? Does it work?
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+F...mate+Stick.htm

[olyteddy]

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels. Drop your postal code there to see what clear QAM is available.

[yoda313]

Just looked at their site. It now says ClearQam is supported. Anyone have this stick? Does it work?
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Produc ... +Stick.htm

I have the basic stick without the flash memory. I could try it later and report back. No promises - also i don't know if there is a serial number of "official" title available on the actual usb stick itself.

EDIT - Ok there are no markings on the stick itself other than pinnacles name. I am going to try this with the rf out from my cable dvr box. Is that an ok way to try or do I have to go from a clean line?

Also I need to download an update since I haven't used it in awhile. Its 250mb and on my slow connection that will take a couple hours. I'll try to report back and let you know.

I know vhelp has a pinnacle stick. However I don't think he has high def cable to test it with.

[edDV]

It needs to be the "Ultimate" version of the Pinnacle stick. The lower models lack a QAM capable tuner.

If you have that, then just plug in the cable from the wall.

[yoda313]

Well I only have the hd pro version. So I must not have the qam version.

I did finish the download of the update and have it installed. I can actually use the rf out feed from the dvr box. It got me just the aerial channels though. I must need to rescan and tell it to use cable mode.

[edDV]

Well I only have the hd pro version. So I must not have the qam version.

I did finish the download of the update and have it installed. I can actually use the rf out feed from the dvr box. It got me just the aerial channels though. I must need to rescan and tell it to use cable mode.

It might work if just software.
The new website says the PCTV HD Pro now supports ClearQAM.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+A...+Pro+Stick.htm

[Nator]

The "Ultimate" version of the Pinnacle USB tuner stick has always said ClearQAM is provisioned for a future release. Last I looked the package still says that.

Just looked at their site. It now says ClearQam is supported. Anyone have this stick? Does it work?
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+F...mate+Stick.htm

Looking on Amazon.com, the reviews there are not to favorable for the Ultimate. I'm not an idiot when it comes to computers and being from Pinnacle, I seriously doubt that the stick would be as flakey as the reviews say. So I'm wondering, are the reviewers morons who don't have a clue or did Pinnacle screw the pooch on this?


Also been wondering, would USB provide enough throughput/bandwidth to be able to handle the amount of data flow for viewing/recording, or might there be some quality loss? Just wanted to touch on that since it came to mind.

[edDV]

The "Ultimate" version of the Pinnacle USB tuner stick has always said ClearQAM is provisioned for a future release. Last I looked the package still says that.

Just looked at their site. It now says ClearQam is supported. Anyone have this stick? Does it work?
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+F...mate+Stick.htm

Looking on Amazon.com, the reviews there are not to favorable for the Ultimate. I'm not an idiot when it comes to computers and being from Pinnacle, I seriously doubt that the stick would be as flakey as the reviews say. So I'm wondering, are the reviewers morons who don't have a clue or did Pinnacle screw the pooch on this?


Also been wondering, would USB provide enough throughput/bandwidth to be able to handle the amount of data flow for viewing/recording, or might there be some quality loss? Just wanted to touch on that since it came to mind.

Pinnacle products have a mixed reputation. They come from many acquisitions at the low end. I always wait for the reviews.

HD broadcast is max 19Mb/s (~2.4MB/s) so USB2 is more than adequate.

[Nator]

The "Ultimate" version of the Pinnacle USB tuner stick has always said ClearQAM is provisioned for a future release. Last I looked the package still says that.

Just looked at their site. It now says ClearQam is supported. Anyone have this stick? Does it work?
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV+Tuners/PCTV+F...mate+Stick.htm

Looking on Amazon.com, the reviews there are not to favorable for the Ultimate. I'm not an idiot when it comes to computers and being from Pinnacle, I seriously doubt that the stick would be as flakey as the reviews say. So I'm wondering, are the reviewers morons who don't have a clue or did Pinnacle screw the pooch on this?


Also been wondering, would USB provide enough throughput/bandwidth to be able to handle the amount of data flow for viewing/recording, or might there be some quality loss? Just wanted to touch on that since it came to mind.

Pinnacle products have a mixed reputation. They come from many acquisitions at the low end. I always wait for the reviews.

HD broadcast is max 19Mb/s (~2.4MB/s) so USB2 is more than adequate.

So do you think the reviews are accurate or do you think people are just being idiots (hehe) and blaming it on the product?

I wasn't completely sure on the USB which is why I asked. I know that it has a top limit of what, 480Mbs? Wasn't sure if the HD somehow exceeded that.


Overall it comes down to this. Would YOU buy it? Even if you couldn't or wouldn't want to bother returning it? I hate to send things back, so the whole idea is that once I make a purchase, I want it to be a product I'll be happy with and not need to return or replace.

This goes for the Ultimate as well as the HVR, etc.

[SHS]

Hauppage over Pinnacle products as of rigth now Hauppage purchase the Pinnacle PCTV product line and related assets from Avid Technology just so all know that.

Oh just so you know you should be thanking Hauppage for get QAM done on the Pinnacle products other then that you stilll most likely still be wait for hell freeze over.

One very good reason to go with Hauppage products is 3rdparty PVR support you have a lots more option.

Having used both a Hauppage (PVR 1600) and an ATI AIW (multiple models) card, I'll offer an opinion. The Hauppage records LARGE files directly as feed to the box, in HD. The ATI is connected to an S-Video feed from the Sat box or a Digital Converter box from OTA HD channels. The video quality is very, very close with the ATI files being much more manageable and DVD-Ready. Files are encoded to MPG in real-time, in most cases IVTC'd, widescreen.

That odd depend which ATI AIW your ref to they do not have Hardware Encoder and only latest AIW HD can only do Accelerated Encoded it part base on software.
As for this "much more manageable and DVD-Ready" that just hog wash I made and min other have min's DVD with PVR 150, 250, 350 and 500 and HVR 1600, 1800, 1950 and 2250

Also been wondering, would USB provide enough throughput/bandwidth to be able to handle the amount of data flow for viewing/recording

Yes it more then adequate in fact it can eazy handel up 8 HD TV Tuner at ome time

Nator you should considering getting the Hauppauge HVR-1600 and just so know that this card can do Dual Recording both Analog and ATSC or QAM at the same time with use of 3rdparty PVR apps.

As for Hauppauge HVR-1950 and why it has an external power supply becuase it has on board Hardware Encoder the USB can't supply the power need to run the device that why there is a external power supply.

What kind of Video card do you have ? this key when it come to decoding HD Files

I want to know if anyone has tried it AND tried a different product of similar nature. It's easy enough to find reviews from people who have used one product and been happy with it, a bit harder to find someone who has used multiple products and can personally give a comparison from experience.

You should check out SageTV, BeyondTV and GB-PVR forum

[edDV]

Overall it comes down to this. Would YOU buy it? Even if you couldn't or wouldn't want to bother returning it? I hate to send things back, so the whole idea is that once I make a purchase, I want it to be a product I'll be happy with and not need to return or replace.

This goes for the Ultimate as well as the HVR, etc.

Support of ClearQAM in a USB stick is new. I haven't read any reviews on that feature yet. I have an HVR-1600 in my XP capture machine and use it with BeyondTV or GBPVR PVR software as a dual SD/HD tuner.

I now need a USB ATSC tuner mobile solution for my laptop but I want to use it for cable ClearQAM at home. I've delayed this purchase until the ClearQAM feature is fully implemented and reviews are positive.

So you and I are in the same situation. I'm ready to buy when the product is proven to work well. Not before.

[edDV]

Hauppage over Pinnacle products as of rigth now Hauppage purchase the Pinnacle PCTV product line and related assets from Avid Technology just so all know that.

Oh just so you know you should be thanking Hauppage for get QAM done on the Pinnacle products other then that you stilll most likely still be wait for hell freeze over.

One very good reason to go with Hauppage products is 3rdparty PVR support you have a lots more option.

I didn't know that Hauppauge bought out the Pinnacle ATSC USB tuner stick line. Since the products look similar, I thought they might both be sourcing a third party. Same goes for the similar look for the ElGato USB sticks.

There are several USB ATSC/QAM tuner sticks out there with similar features. I'm waiting to see which is proven to work well with both BeyondTV and Vista MCE. I want it to work with ATSC for OTA and analog/ClearQAM on cable. It would be great if the same hardware was supported on Mac as well.

http://www.nextag.com/tv-tuner-usb/search-html


PS: I'll add DVB tuning as well for the dream stick wish list.

[Nator]

Overall it comes down to this. Would YOU buy it? Even if you couldn't or wouldn't want to bother returning it? I hate to send things back, so the whole idea is that once I make a purchase, I want it to be a product I'll be happy with and not need to return or replace.

This goes for the Ultimate as well as the HVR, etc.

Support of ClearQAM in a USB stick is new. I haven't read any reviews on that feature yet. I have an HVR-1600 in my XP capture machine and use it with BeyondTV or GBPVR PVR software as a dual SD/HD tuner.

I now need a USB ATSC tuner mobile solution for my laptop but I want to use it for cable ClearQAM at home. I've delayed this purchase until the ClearQAM feature is fully implemented and reviews are positive.

So you and I are in the same situation. I'm ready to buy when the product is proven to work well. Not before.

With the 1600, do you really have to hook up both analog and digital connections? To me, that seems a bit much just to be able to view analog and digital cable channels. I'd rather be able to do a single connection and have access to all of it, with access to a separate connection if I have one.

Since we're in the same boat, so to speak, would seem that I asked the questions at the right time.

As mentioned before, I have a PVR-350 (MCE version) and only requires a single connection. It's been rather nice to have and I've recorded some stuff with it and it's been good to me. Software has been a pain in the azz to get working at times and such, but any problems I've had have never been with the card itself. Other options only require one connection as well, just that I don't have a PCI-E, so that's not an option for me.

So since we're upon the digital only signals, I wanted to upgrade, but don't want to just grab the first thing I see. Want to know that I'm getting something that will work for me and my needs/computer setup.


As for DVB, isn't that only in Europe?

[yoda313]

As far as i Know yes DVB is only Europe - I think its for DIGITAL VIDEO BROADCAST.

[edDV]

With the 1600, do you really have to hook up both analog and digital connections? To me, that seems a bit much just to be able to view analog and digital cable channels. I'd rather be able to do a single connection and have access to all of it, with access to a separate connection if I have one.

Yes you do. There are two tuners analog NTSC/FM radio and ATSC/QAM and each have their own F-Connector. So I use a splitter and feed each a coax. If I could get ATSC here, I'd need an RF switch to the digital input.

Since we're in the same boat, so to speak, would seem that I asked the questions at the right time.

As mentioned before, I have a PVR-350 (MCE version) and only requires a single connection. It's been rather nice to have and I've recorded some stuff with it and it's been good to me. Software has been a pain in the azz to get working at times and such, but any problems I've had have never been with the card itself. Other options only require one connection as well, just that I don't have a PCI-E, so that's not an option for me.

So since we're upon the digital only signals, I wanted to upgrade, but don't want to just grab the first thing I see. Want to know that I'm getting something that will work for me and my needs/computer setup.

Same for me. I can get all this with my current equipment but an additional capture from the laptop while at home could be useful. I do need an ATSC road solution with Feb 17 fast approaching.

As for DVB, isn't that only in Europe?

Yes but the road for me sometimes includes Europe/Asia/Oz/etc.

[edDV]

As far as i Know yes DVB is only Europe - I think its for DIGITAL VIDEO BROADCAST.

When there I'd rather DX the local TV RF than watch the hotel movies. Especially when in a high rise hotel.

I know. I'm a hopeless TV geek.

"DX" is a ham radio term for surveying and pushing the RF envelope.

[yoda313]

@eddv - so is "dx" the same as scanning then?

[edDV]

@eddv - so is "dx" the same as scanning then?

Similar but simple scanning only works well for an omnidirectional antenna. Consider that a first step. You'll get further out with some transmitter location research and a directional antenna.

[Nator]

The Feb 17th deadline may be pushed back. Sorta hope so, give more time to get more conclusive reviews on the USB HD captures.