Pre-installed Vista on Laptops

[cyflyer]

A friend of mine bought a brand new, top-line, HP dv7-1020EV laptop with the pre-installed Vista Home Premium over Christmas. Two or three hangups every day requiring a re-start, Nero 7 does not work, Nero 6 does not work, Power dvd is spasmotic, other programs hangup. This is not the first Vista equipped computer Ive seen with the same behavier. We came to the conclusion that Vista is an abomination, is a load of useless crap. Whats the point of it if most of the programs you want to use don't work, and worked flawlessy in your XP equipped old computer ?
Decided Vista must go, XP pro SP3 to install.
I understand that this is a difficult task because there are no audio/Chipset drivers for XP for these new computers ? We e-mailed HP and the reply was "want to 'downgrade' to XP ? Sorry no can do, have no drivers, bye" Now that SUCKS !
As I understand it, I can install XP and it will work fine, but there will be no sound because of the lack of drivers ? Is this correct ? Has anyone managed to solve this problem, and how ?
Also, if they pre-install this crap called 'Vista' , and they don't even supply the Vista disc or Vista drivers, are you supposed to buy another installation Vista every time you you need to re-set/re-format your computer ? At least with XP you got the disc, and the motherboard driver disc !

[gadgetguy]

I didn't get any discs with my XP laptop (acer). There is a recovery partition on the hard drive and instructions to create a recovery disk set that should be done immediately and periodically to keep it updated. I suspect your laptop is configured similarly, only for Vista.

[jman98]

I believe that XP has a generic audio driver and it may possibly work with your laptop. You'll have to install it to know if it works though.

HP doesn't normally give install discs with their PCs. This is normal behavior for the industry. The manufacturers don't want you installing the OS yourself because too many users don't know how to do it correctly, so they provide a small recovery partition on the hard drive for you to use to restore from. I have an HP PC that I bought a few years ago pre-installed with XP and it contained no XP discs. I have a copy of XP so I didn't care, but this is really normal behavior.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Are the programs with problems ones that come preinstalled or that you are putting on afterwards? Frankly, Nero anything is a disaster waiting to happen on any version of Windows.

Have you checked the websites for patches etc?

I've been using Vista for more than two years and haven't run into any issues.

Maybe the laptop is bad.

Please provide more information regarding the restarts, which programs hang etc etc. Info on the restarts can help track down the cause - usually a hardware driver if you are getting the blue screen.

BTW, HP's position is the same as Dell's, for example. My wife's company provided her with a Dell laptop with Vista Business. She had critical software that requires XP. I tried for hours and hours to get XP on there (as a second bootable OS) only to be stymied by lack of SATA drivers (she telecommutes so I'm the IT fall guy). Eventually, her company dealt with it by getting the official XP disks from Dell. Dell only provide these to corporate customers (according to them).

[stiltman]

Eventually, her company dealt with it by getting the official XP disks from Dell. Dell only provide these to corporate customers (according to them).

Pretty much.
If you buy it through Dell's website in the Small or Large Biz section, most PCs and Laptops have the option for Vista License with the XP downgrade. They will ship both XP and Vista CD/DVD and drivers for both.

If you buy it through a B&M store, you're pretty much stuck with Vista.

[Soopafresh]

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?s=b9a4462defb210dd1b357ad08cf2c7ae&t=281286

[MOVIEGEEK]

cyflyer,
I would first use PCDecrapifier to remove crapware,then use CCleaner to disable any unneeded programs and fix the registry.
If those don't help then try running the programs in XP compatibility mode.
http://help.unc.edu/?id=6037

[SCDVD]

I really don't understand this "Vista sucks" stuff. I use Vista on three computers - two at home and one at work. They are all rock solid and I use a wide range of software on them. There is something else in this picture and it's not Vista. Whenever there is a problem between the keyboard and the chair, the source of the real problem often bloviates about everything else but the real source of the problem.

[edDV]

Vista works fine on my Compaq laptop. I can't remember a crash. All the problems listed were application issues not OS. Just restore and start over with all updates installed. Junk Nero, get something better.

Make sure the apps you are loading are Vista compatible.

Is PowerDV current? What are you playing? Will file play smoother with VLC?

[glenmike]

Many 2007 HP, Compaq, Dell and other notebook computers with Nvidia GPUs are defective. There are lawsuits galore and recalls on some models. I HAVE ONE THAT COST $2400 AND IS JUST A PAPERWEIGHT!. Beware of people selling their used notebook computers with Nvidia chipsets.

[SCDVD]

Many 2007 HP, Compaq, Dell and other notebook computers with Nvidia GPUs are defective. There are lawsuits galore and recalls on some models. I HAVE ONE THAT COST $2400 AND IS JUST A PAPERWEIGHT!. Beware of people selling their used notebook computers with Nvidia chipsets.

Don't be a party-pooper glenmike. It's a lot more fun to blame Vista. Why just the other day we had a unforcasted rain storm and I blamed Vista for it. All my friends were impressed; they thought I was a really impressive tough guy while we drank our 6-pack.

[Dv8ted2]

A friend of mine bought a brand new, top-line, HP dv7-1020EV laptop with the pre-installed Vista Home Premium over Christmas. Two or three hangups every day requiring a re-start, Nero 7 does not work, Nero 6 does not work, Power dvd is spasmotic, other programs hangup. This is not the first Vista equipped computer Ive seen with the same behavier. We came to the conclusion that Vista is an abomination, is a load of useless crap. Whats the point of it if most of the programs you want to use don't work, and worked flawlessy in your XP equipped old computer ?
Decided Vista must go, XP pro SP3 to install.
I understand that this is a difficult task because there are no audio/Chipset drivers for XP for these new computers ? We e-mailed HP and the reply was "want to 'downgrade' to XP ? Sorry no can do, have no drivers, bye" Now that SUCKS !
As I understand it, I can install XP and it will work fine, but there will be no sound because of the lack of drivers ? Is this correct ? Has anyone managed to solve this problem, and how ?
Also, if they pre-install this crap called 'Vista' , and they don't even supply the Vista disc or Vista drivers, are you supposed to buy another installation Vista every time you you need to re-set/re-format your computer ? At least with XP you got the disc, and the motherboard driver disc !

Your problems are not with Vista. You need to upgrade some of the other programs. Nero 6 is not compatible. The later versions of Nero 7 would run on Vista, if you ran in XP compatibility mode. Nero 8 and above run very well on Vista. Powerdvd needs updated. That has nothing to do with Vista.

I run 2 Vista Business computers at home and had jobs where I have used Vista at work. They run solidly. Rarely crash, and most software will run on it. Vista was necessary to prevent software creators from writing software where you had to be an admin. When you run as an admin, anything can ruin your computer to the point where you need to format and start over.

You need to point the blame, where it belongs. You did not do enough research to find out what is compatible and what is not.

How is that Microsoft's problem?

You need to do more research before you glorify XP and bash Vista.

[cyflyer]

Soopafresh, thanks, that was an interesting link. Twenty pages of the said discussion, and lots of try this and that and at the end no satisfactory rock solid solution. My head went giddy after the first ten pages. To those that advocate 'update' your programs' I say, why should i have to pay and update all my programs, and why shouldn't the OS makers not make their program compatible with the existing programs. Anyways, to those that think Vista is so wonderful, it appears even Microsoft doesn' t think its so wonderful otherwise they would'nt be dumping themselves so soon.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/08/microsoft.ballmer/index.html

[guns1inger]

To those that advocate 'update' your programs' I say, why should i have to pay and update all my programs, and why shouldn't the OS makers not make their program compatible with the existing programs.

1. Because then progress stops and the luddites win

2. Because then the punter in the street (or forum) whinges that the OS never gets better and is the same old thing

3. Because then new hardware won't be supported and again, the punter whinges

4. Because then the OS would three times the size it is now, just to support all the old legacy stuff

Honestly, I have no sympathy. Vista has been out more than a year. All the issues with having to upgrade certain programs are well known and documented. If you then go out an buy a new laptop with Vista on it, and try to install versions of software on it that won't run because you didn't update them, more fool you.

You might as well ask why DVD players don't support VHS tapes. Oh, that's right they do. And aren't those dual VHS/DVD units just the best (sticks finger down throat and vomits).

[Bjs]

Check out > http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?s=f2b995c7f82171cc311f3920450baeda&t=281286

It is possible ... but a lot of hair pulling happens, lol

[Soopafresh]

Bjs - you owe me a beer... See Jan 07, 2009 12:14 up the thread.

[Dv8ted2]

To those that advocate 'update' your programs' I say, why should i have to pay and update all my programs, and why shouldn't the OS makers not make their program compatible with the existing programs. Anyways, to those that think Vista is so wonderful, it appears even Microsoft doesn' t think its so wonderful otherwise they would'nt be dumping themselves so soon.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/08/microsoft.ballmer/index.html

The world does not live in a vacuum. Computer and operating system progress continue to be made. Microsoft is not dumping Vista. They will continue to support Vista. Vista's security is better than XP. You could keep putting your head in the sand while the world passes you by.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Anyways, to those that think Vista is so wonderful, it appears even Microsoft doesn' t think its so wonderful otherwise they would'nt be dumping themselves so soon.

Not so. MS have indicated an intent to get back to the point where they used to be in that they would release a new version of the OS every 3 years. This cycle time slipped to nearly 5 years between XP and Vista.

[SCDVD]

cyflyer, I hope you don't mind if I post your picture for everyone to see. I thought it might help everyone understand what we are dealing with here.

Don't force yourself to live in your small little world. The changes that have been made to Windows (and all other operating systems) through the years have been appropriate and necessary. In the wild wild west days of DOS and earlier versions of Windows, it was an anything goes environment. There were very few rules about what software applications and drivers could and couldn't do. For example, an application could write to any memory address in the system which caused all manner of problems and crashes because this practice would overwrite memory that was being used by other applications or even the operating system itself. To prevent many sorts of problems, the operating system enforces some rules to prevent more primitive software from doing things that it shouldn't do. Hands-on experts such as JohnnyMaleria could elaborate on this in much more detail. In any case, if you insist on running your copy of Pong Rev. 1, you might want to consider retrograding all the way back to MS-DOS 3.1. That, in your world, is a real he-man operating system.

You are just opening your mouth and removing all doubt with your spew.

[lacywest]

My 2 cents ... I bought a Dell Inspiron 1520 ... Intel Dual Core ... I put WinXP on it ... works fine.

There is a website [Inspiron 1520] that pertains to going from Vista to Winxp ... I used the guidelines to reinstall WIN XP on it.

As for the problem with the sound ... how about using a sound card plugged into side of laptop ... I see there are some USB ones too ... have no idea how well they work.

Also ... I messed around with Vista ... what I didn't like about it ... In WINXP I can go into all the folders and know where I am at ... but with Vista .... geez .... the arrangement is weird compared to XP.

And if I want to copy and paste something in XP ... it happens ... in Vista ... crap .... takes a few clicks to get permission to do it.

[budz]

I just reinstalled Vista home premium 32 bit in a friends HP laptop. At first I thought I'd be annoyed at Vista but it wasn't that bad. I had to use a XP disc to completely wipe the hard drive clean since there were several trojan viruses in the recovery partition. What I did find annoying was it took over 6 hours to reinstall Vista & all the other HP crap.

[Ai Haibara]

Also ... I messed around with Vista ... what I didn't like about it ... In WINXP I can go into all the folders and know where I am at ... but with Vista .... geez .... the arrangement is weird compared to XP.

And if I want to copy and paste something in XP ... it happens ... in Vista ... crap .... takes a few clicks to get permission to do it.

What kind of copy/paste operations are you doing? It'll generally only trip UAC if you're trying to do file operations with a 'protected' system folder. Other than that... using the clipboard or entering folders has been exactly the same as XP, for me.

[buckeyefan]

To start form the end, to reinstall Vista you need to get a copy of vista from a somewhere. Every computer I have seen in the last 10 years (laptop and desktop) puts a sticker on the bottom or back with the Windows Product key. Therefore you can use any copy of the install DVD with that key and it is your official license. You could have to go through a phone call to Microsoft at activation but it is your license. Installation should not take that long. For both of the laptops listed below instillation only takes about an hour for the OS. Then it’s up to you how long it takes form there.

Next, I have 2 Acer laptops that came with Vista preinstalled
1) Intel 2060? 1.6 GHz, 2GB Ram
2) Intel 2390 1.8 GHz, 3GB Ram
Both ran great out of the box. I have reinstalled them several times since then (because I am crazy and anal) and have never had a problem. I have done allot of benchmarking of XP and Vista on the same machine and Vista has two major problems but neither usually cause problems in my experience. The first is 2D rendering. With a decent video card Vista will beat XP rendering 3D but XP is more than 2x faster than Vista in 2D rendering. (I.e. Video). That is why I left Vista on my laptops for business work and put XP on my desktop for video work. The other problem is file copying. Vista is easily half the speed of XP at copying files. Neither of these problems usually cause problems in and of themselves. For instance, with Nero 6 does not work and 7.8.5 was the first version that I found that worked well with Vista. I have been using it for a year with great results. Nero 7.11 available at their website works great as well but it is twice the size. Also, PowerDVD 8 works great with Vista. With 15-20GB of Software on my computer I can't think of a program that hangs up Vista.

There is hope. Vista really isn't that bad. It just may take some work to figure out what works on your machine. Also, I am surprised HP is not offering XP drivers for its machines. Another reason I don't buy HP products. I bought my second Acer laptop in September 2007 and they had drivers for every operating system I would want. Hope this helps.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Don't forget you either need the OEM installation discs that came with the computer (or an identical/similar one from the same vendor) OR a set of retail discs. OEM discs for a diffent brand/model often won't work.

[jollyjohn]

Soopafresh, thanks, that was an interesting link. Twenty pages of the said discussion, and lots of try this and that and at the end no satisfactory rock solid solution. My head went giddy after the first ten pages. To those that advocate 'update' your programs' I say, why should i have to pay and update all my programs, and why shouldn't the OS makers not make their program compatible with the existing programs. Anyways, to those that think Vista is so wonderful, it appears even Microsoft doesn' t think its so wonderful otherwise they would'nt be dumping themselves so soon.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/08/microsoft.ballmer/index.html

I remember having a similar problem when I first installed SP1 on WXP home.

I don't blame those resotting to hacked or pirated software.

[Dv8ted2]

[I don't blame those resorting to hacked or pirated software.

Being ignorant on what is compatible and what is not, is not an an excuse to avoid paying for the operating system.

[JohnnyMalaria]

When I bought Win95, it wasn't compatible with a bunch of my hardware - Microsoft refunded me...but I had called them prior to purchase to ask if it was compatible. They didn't know. Due diligence.

To guarantee compatibility with all your hardware/software then don't upgrade the OS. It's a bit like replacing a VCR with a DVD player and then complaining that it won't play your tapes. Do you homework and buy a combo (dual boot).

[cyflyer]

MOVIEGEEK, thanks for the suggestion of XP compatibilty mode, never thought of that. Read somewhere that Nero 7.9 was Vista compatible so i installed 7.9.9 and although it installed, it stalled during the burn process. I will try the compatibility mode thing and see what happens. Thats what I call a usefull contribution.

As for SCDVD, thanks for your usual insulting and condescending contibution. Maybe its your manners that need updating. The problem lies with YOUR spew.

[Dv8ted2]

MOVIEGEEK, thanks for the suggestion of XP compatibilty mode, never thought of that. Read somewhere that Nero 7.9 was Vista compatible so i installed 7.9.9 and although it installed, it stalled during the burn process. I will try the compatibility mode thing and see what happens. Thats what I call a usefull contribution.

As for SCDVD, thanks for your usual insulting and condescending contibution. Maybe its your manners that need updating. The problem lies with YOUR spew.

The problem lies with your non-research and then blaming the operating system. Microsoft does not make Nero or powerdvd, yet you were all too happy to blame the operating system.

[SCDVD]

What a pathetic piece of work.