Encoding avi to dvd

[macbuz]

I have an avi file I have been trying to get into dvd format for TV playback. Handbrake and FilmRedux wouldn't load the file. VisualHub would load it but I only have the trial version. Finally got Ffmpeg to load it.

My first conversion wound up as an MPEG movie and there wasn't anything I could do with it. Tried again with Ffmpeg and after reading prolifically wound up with a VIDEO_TS folder ......yahooooo!!!

Now the problem is in playback. I'm running it through the computer DVD Player and right off I noticed the video 'stuttering', the audio was crisp and clear. After 5 or 10 minutes of playback it quit altogether except for an occasional frame advance and 'blurb' of audio. Stopping it and starting it again would kick start it but imediately the stuttering started and it stopped again. Oh and BTW, the timer is running the whole time. FWIW, the avi file plays perfectly.

When I encoded it I selected the DVD mpeg2enc in the drop down on the summary tab, then on the Options tab ticked 'Author' as DVD (VIDEO_TS). It's an old B&W movie (To Kill a Mockingbird) so I thought deinterlacing may be a good idea but that resulted in an immediate 'failed'. Unticked the deinterlace and encoding proceeded with no 'apparent' problems.

Original avi file is around 700MB and the new VIDEO_TS folder is 4.3GB. I don't know what else to post for details. Any suggestions / pointers appreciated.

[tomlee59]

DVD is interlaced, so that's why you weren't allowed to de-interlace.

Stuttering can be caused by many things. A couple of common causes are mismatched frame rates and differing field order choice.

Perhaps you could post the contents of the Progress logfile (click on the blue "i"). That might provide additional clues. Also, what framerate choice did you make?

[terryj]

Let's roll this back even further a bit.
1. Can you open the file, the .avi file, in either Quicktime Player
or VLC?
If you can, we need either the contents of "Movie Info"
from Quicktime Player, or we need the info in
"Info" from VLC, specifically Stream 1 and 2.

2. Most avi's are MS-Mpeg4 or better yet, XVID.
Usually, if Perian 1.13 is installed, and ffmpegx is set to
"decode with Quicktime", the result is ususally good.
VisualHub probably, if it was a full licensed version, would
have opened it and converted ok.

[macbuz]

Ok it's running in VLC atm; From Information > Advanced tab:

Stream 0: Codec = Xvid; Language = (blank); Type = Video; Resolution = 544 x 288; Frame Rate = 23.98+

Stream 1: Codec = mpga; Language = (blank); Type = audio; Channels = 2; Sample rate = 48000Hz; Bitrate = kb/s

I don't recall for sure, but believe I had "decode with QT" selected. Couldn't find the stream info in QT.

I'm not sure what the first reply was asking for regarding the 'little blue' i??

[Case]

For 23.976 fps DVDs, set the 3:2 pulldown in the Options tab. Not doing so is a common reason for stuttering playback in Apple DVD Player, and unpredictable behavior on stand-alone players.

QuickTime's movie info can be accessed by Cmd-I.

The blue "i" refers to the small Information button on the right hand side in the ffmpegX Progress window, which gives access to the Process Information log.

[macbuz]

For 23.976 fps DVDs, set the 3:2 pulldown in the Options tab. Not doing so is a common reason for stuttering playback in Apple DVD Player, and unpredictable behavior on stand-alone players.

QuickTime's movie info can be accessed by Cmd-I.

The blue "i" refers to the small Information button on the right hand side in the ffmpegX Progress window, which gives access to the Process Information log.

Ok - thank you for this. I'll try another encoding and post back in a couple hours when it completes.
Edit: Assuming you mean 'tick' the box next to 'Set 3:2'. Not seeing a 'pull down'.

Also, assuming the progress info is during encoding and will find it as well.

Edit 2: Ok, see the progress item and I'll post a portion of it later as well. Really scrolls by fast.

[macbuz]

Watching the new content in the DVD player and it seems to be quite all right. Now to get it to DVD .... is there a reason to post the process log? My system crashed some time after the end of encoding and my return from RL. I managed to get the log copied and pasted into a text file.

FWIW, this is the beginning of the process file:

Encoding started on Tue Jan 6 18:38:42 PST 2009
INFO: [yuvscaler] yuvscaler 1.9.0 (15-02-2004) is a general scaling utility for yuv frames
INFO: [yuvscaler] (C) 2001-2004 Xavier Biquard <xbiquard@free.fr>, yuvscaler -h for help, or man yuvscaler
++ WARN: [mpeg2enc] MPEG bitrate must be a multiple of 400 - rounding up
INFO: [mpeg2enc] SETTING EXTENDED MMX for MOTION!
INFO: [mpeg2enc] SETTING SSE and MMX for TRANSFORM!
INFO: [mpeg2enc] SETTING EXTENDED MMX for PREDICTION!
movtoy4m
Copyright 2002-2006 Johan Lindström
All rights reserved..
++ WARN: [yuvscaler] Could not infer norm (PAL/SECAM or NTSC) from input data (frame size=544x288, frame rate=24000:1001 fps)!!
INFO: [yuvscaler] input: frame size: 544x288 pixels (235008 bytes)
INFO: [yuvscaler] input: chroma: 4:2:0 JPEG/MPEG-1 (interstitial)
INFO: [yuvscaler] input: frame rate: 24000/1001 fps (~23.976024)
INFO: [yuvscaler] input: interlace: none/progressive
INFO: [yuvscaler] input: sample aspect ratio: 1:1
INFO: [yuvscaler] from 544x288, take 544x288+0+0, NOT_INTERLACED/PROGRESSIVE
INFO: [yuvscaler] scale to 544x288, 544x288 being displayed
INFO: [yuvscaler] Scaling uses the RESAMPLE algorithm,
INFO: [yuvscaler] frame rate: 23.976 fps
INFO: [yuvscaler] Scaling ratio for width is 1 to 1
INFO: [yuvscaler] and is 1 to 1 for height
INFO: [yuvscaler] Specific downscaling routing number 4
INFO: [yuvscaler] output: frame size: 544x288 pixels (235008 bytes)
INFO: [yuvscaler] output: chroma: 4:2:0 JPEG/MPEG-1 (interstitial)
INFO: [yuvscaler] output: frame rate: 24000/1001 fps (~23.976024)
INFO: [yuvscaler] output: interlace: none/progressive
INFO: [yuvscaler] output: sample aspect ratio: 1:1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Selecting DVD with dummy navigation packets output profile
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Assuming norm NTSC
++ WARN: [mpeg2enc] 3:2 movie pulldown with frame rate set to decode rate not display rate
++ WARN: [mpeg2enc] 3:2 Setting frame rate code to display rate = 4 (29.970 fps)
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Encoding MPEG-2 video to /Users/buz/Desktop/To.Kill.A.Mockingbird.1962.544.657kbps.24fps.V5.Wu nSeeDee.avi.ff.m2v
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Horizontal size: 544 pel
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Vertical size: 288 pel
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Aspect ratio code: 2 = 4:3 display
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Frame rate code: 4 = 30000.0/1001.0 (NTSC VIDEO)
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Bitrate: 1357 KBit/s
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Quality factor: 3 (Quantisation = 3) (1=best, 31=worst)
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Field order for input: none/progressive
INFO: [mpeg2enc] New Sequence every 9999 Mbytes
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Assuming non-video stream of 0 Kbps
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Search radius: 16
INFO: [mpeg2enc] DualPrime: no
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Using one-pass rate control
INFO: [mpeg2enc] GOP SIZE RANGE 7 TO 15
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Setting colour/gamma parameters to "NTSC"
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Progressive format frames = 1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] 3:2 Pulldown selected frame decode rate = 23.976 fps
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Using default unmodified quantization matrices
INFO: [mpeg2enc] SETTING MMX and MMX for QUANTIZER!
INFO: [mpeg2enc] PAR = 1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Creating worker thread 0
INFO: [mpeg2enc] NEW GOP INIT length 15
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: getting
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Working: stripe 0/1 1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: stripe 0 done
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: getting
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Enc1 0 0( 0) I q=3.00 [100% Intra]
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Working: stripe 0/1 1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: stripe 0 done
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: getting
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Enc1 1 1( 1) P q=3.00 [0% Intra]
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Working: stripe 0/1 1
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: stripe 0 done
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Worker: getting
INFO: [mpeg2enc] Enc1 2 2( 2) P q=3.00 [0% Intra]

Wondering ????? how this is gonna view on TV - guess I'm gonna find out. Is there info here that is a clue to how it will view?

It's a steep learning curve. Thank you guys for the help.

[macbuz]

The DVD turned out great considering the source file. Thanks to you guys.

One other question, are there methods / settings I can use to 'help' the quality. I'm satisfied with this one, but if it can be improved on that would be cool to.

[macbuz]

The answer to this issue was - when the fps is 23.976 then tick the Set to 3:2 option.

What is the fps number that would tell me to leave it unticked, like anything over _______ ? Would it be ticked for anything under 25?

Thanks for your help.

[terryj]

usually 29.9 is NTSC, 23 is set for PAL or for Progressive Film.
29.9 is standard for North American DVD Players, and your Apple DVD
Player is set for Region 1 ( North American DVD).

By setting the 3:2:2 flag, you enable the DVD Playback device
to determine how to decode the footage as Case said.

When you REALLY want to learn about how to affect the quality
of your encodes to DVD, you'll have to learn BitRate Calculation.
go to www.recipe4dvd.com, and read up on it.
(i say REALLY, as to say, have the time to get into it in depth.
like any science, it isn't easy to learn, but sweet as pie when you do.)

[macbuz]

Very good. Thank you. I'm willing to at least take a look and see if it's something I can get my head around. I find, more often than not, after I get an answer, I wind up with ten more questions.

[macbuz]

Ok, so I have finished another avi encode to dvd. VLC shows this one as a frame rate of 25 which I believe is PAL and from what I am understanding, it tells me I should have had 'Set to 3:2' ticked. I didn't though and this one plays fine in DVD Player.

Seems I'm missing something?

Regarding recipe4dvd.com and bitrate, I found his tut on bitrate and his spreadsheet for calculating. I didn't find much other useful info at his site though, at least not in the way of 'understanding' BitRates. I'll google it though and see what else I can find as well as try working with his speadsheet and see what else I can learn from using it.

Appreciate the tips here.

[Case]

Ok, so I have finished another avi encode to dvd. VLC shows this one as a frame rate of 25 which I believe is PAL and from what I am understanding, it tells me I should have had 'Set to 3:2' ticked. I didn't though and this one plays fine in DVD Player.

The 3:2 pulldown is a technique to 'convert' 23.976 fps progressive frames to 29.97 fps interlaced frames on the fly in the signal. It does not apply to PAL framerates, or any other framerate.

[macbuz]

The lights are going on slowly - 23.976 and 29.97 are both NTSC. So if I have a film in 23.976 and tick 3:2, when the encoding is done I'll have 29.97 Interlaced.

tomlee59 mentioned "DVD is interlaced" - so any time I have a file done with 23.976 progressive I need to use the pull down?

[terryj]

Ok, so I have finished another avi encode to dvd. VLC shows this one as a frame rate of 25 which I believe is PAL and from what I am understanding, it tells me I should have had 'Set to 3:2' ticked. I didn't though and this one plays fine in DVD Player.

Seems I'm missing something?

Regarding recipe4dvd.com and bitrate, I found his tut on bitrate and his spreadsheet for calculating. I didn't find much other useful info at his site though, at least not in the way of 'understanding' BitRates. I'll google it though and see what else I can find as well as try working with his speadsheet and see what else I can learn from using it.

Appreciate the tips here.

the tutorial and the Bitrate Calc is pretty much what I was pointing you towards.
glad to be helpful.

[macbuz]

terryj - this is good then. I guess you guys will quit answering when you quit answering ....... but pressing my luck here ........

I found this other Bitrate Calc https://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm (part of this site) and ..... I was encoding this other avi file in Ffmpeg (of course), after dropping the file on ffmpeg many 'blanks' are filled in automatically, I suppose whatever ffmpeg can read from the file. Anyway the video bitrate was (idk) maybe 2150, something like that ...... after using the calculator I came up with a bitrate of 7567 which I used. The DVD file plays beautifully.

From what I have read, higher bitrate = higher quality, it's a matter of using as much video bitrate as can 'fit' on the media you are using ..... am I getting it? At least, am I getting closer to understanding? Am I 'beginning' to crack the egg?

[tomlee59]

Up to a point of diminishing returns, higher bitrate is valuable for improving quality. The primary impact is on "macroblocking" in busy (high-detail) regions of an image, and in scenes with rapid motion.

Beyond some point, however, you have enough bitrate to do the job. Anything above simply chews up processing cycles for no good reason. In the case of standalone players, if you go above some value (say, 8-10MB/s), playback may stutter, or simply not happen at all.

As to your pulldown question, it only has to do with the source framerate. Period. NTSC TV has one, and only one framerate: 29.97fps, with each frame broken up into two interlaced fields (so that the field rate is 59.94). Film is 24fps. Pulldown was invented to allow a 24fps source to display well (not perfectly, mind you) on a 29.97fps system. By cleverly arranging the sequencing of field playback, 24 can map into 30, the latter of which is then pulled down a tiny bit to 29.97. That's what the "pulldown" part really refers to, but most people use the term to refer to the entire process of mapping 24 into 30, into 29.97. It was a brilliant, but diabolical, hack to allow film sources to be displayed on TV, in the pre-digital age.

Some (most) DVD players will perform the pulldown operation, so you can keep the DVD at 24fps. However, the pulldown flag needs to be set in the encoded stream, to tell the DVD player that it needs to perform the operation.

A spec-compliant DVD's video will always be interlaced.

[macbuz]

Clear explanation on the pull down - thank you.