Incomplete Defrag

[bevills1]

Running Defrag on a Dell Inspiron 6000 with WinXP in both normal and safe mode it gets about 25% complete, stops and gives message that some files on this volume could not be defragmented giving a list of files that couldn't be defragemented. Is there a way to defrag those files running Defrag or another defrag program that will defrag those files?

[Baldrick]

You can try SmartDefrag or Jkdefrag. Both free and faster then winxp builtin.

[3Simon7]

Also, try turning off the programs with files that can't be defragged.

Example..... Maybe you have AVG running. Turn it off while you defrag.

It's probably not running in safe mode but maybe something else is.

Here's a defrag program that I use sometimes.....

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag

[AlanHK]

You can try SmartDefrag or Jkdefrag. Both free and faster then winxp builtin.

Yes -- JKdefrag is pretty good.

There are also a number of GUIs, for it eg JkDefragGUI -- which can schedule a defrag on the next boot, before most of Windows loads, so there are no conflicts.

[bevills1]

As stated in initial post the same result is achieved even when run in safe mode which means no anti-virus or other programs are running, and there's 23% free space on the drive if that makes any difference. I'll try some of the suggested defrag programs. Auslogic appears to require Vista.

[Seeker47]

As stated in initial post the same result is achieved even when run in safe mode which means no anti-virus or other programs are running, and there's 23% free space on the drive if that makes any difference. I'll try some of the suggested defrag programs. Auslogic appears to require Vista.

I think you may be running close to the low end of how much free space is adequate for a good defrag operation.
I've found Diskeeper (maybe 2 k's in their name ?) to be about the best defragger I've used. They may have been the source of the defrag module included in Windows 2000 -- it certainly has much the same UI -- but that would have been a rather "lite" version. The full payware version has much more extensive capabilities.

[Soopafresh]

I like JKdefrag as well.

[3Simon7]

Auslogic appears to require Vista.

I'm using Auslogic with Windows 2000.

The link I provided was a quick look-up. I didn't give a specific Windows download
link, but it works with 2000!

[Nelson37]

Don't like using non-standard disk management utilities unless absolutely necessary. When one of these screws something up, they REALLY screw something up.

I would take a much harder look at why a low-level utility that is built into the OS is not running correctly. IMO this is a far more significant issue than a fragmented disk. First thing to do is run the error-check.

The disk usage limit for Defrag is either 10% or 15%, I forget which. 23% should be fine, though it might slow you down a bit.

[bevills1]

SmartDefrag and JkDefrag were tried with same result, i.e. incomplete defrag with analysis indicating the drive still needs defragmenting. I think Defrag is running correctly but is simply unable to defrag certain files for some reason.

[TJohns]

As you don't specify which files aren't defragging fully, I'm just gonna guess that they're probably files in use by the OS itself (even in safe mode) and so just CAN'T be defragged while the system is running. Solution? Boot off a BartPE disk (runs the whole OS off CD rather than HDD) and defrag the drive then!

You might have to try various programs too. Some applications may not know how to defrag things like the PageFile or MFT table (which isn't a "file" in the normal sense, but still gets fragmented)

Trev

[Bjs]

A: Disable power management settings for hd in bios
B: Disable power management in os
C: Disable screen saver
D: Clear unwanted junk files before hand

Reboot to console and type

chkdsk drive /p /r

Back in os, run auslogics defrag

[AlanHK]

SmartDefrag and JkDefrag were tried with same result, i.e. incomplete defrag with analysis indicating the drive still needs defragmenting. I think Defrag is running correctly but is simply unable to defrag certain files for some reason.

Use JkDefragGUI , to schedule a defrag on the next boot.
This will include the pagefile and others which you can't defrag normally while Windows is running.

Do you have a fixed size pagefile -- if not, see
http://www.theeldergeek.com/paging_file.htm
for how to set it at a fixed size (usually 1.5 x your RAM).
The default is a variable size, so when it grows it causes fragmentation.

[bevills1]

Subsequent to my last post chkdsk was run first and gave message "Windows has found problems with the file system" and suggested running chkdsk /f which was then run. However, running chkdsk again gave same result with same message and same suggestion. This was repeated numerous times (a half dozen or more times) with the same result. Apparently chkdsk finds problems and is unable to fix them which is likely the reason for the incomplete defrag. Is there another way to try to fix the file system problem?

[deadrats]

Subsequent to my last post chkdsk was run first and gave message "Windows has found problems with the file system" and suggested running chkdsk /f which was then run. However, running chkdsk again gave same result with same message and same suggestion. This was repeated numerous times (a half dozen or more times) with the same result. Apparently chkdsk finds problems and is unable to fix them which is likely the reason for the incomplete defrag. Is there another way to try to fix the file system problem?

from within windows, right click on a hdd, properties-->tools, check both disk options, start.

[bevills1]

From within windows, right click on a hdd, properties-->tools, check both disk options, start was done after which chkdsk was again run, again found errors and again suggested running chkdsk /f which seems to mean errors were still unable to be fixed.

Edit: According to http://steinbaugh.com/journal/ntfs-file-system-glitch/ this chkdsk issue is a known problem that has gone unresolved for at least 5 years now since posts go back over 5 years and up to around a year ago. One post states that Microsoft says that there aren't actually any problems inspite of the chkdsk seeming to find problems. I could deal with that if I could simply get Defrag to complete. The link also sites problems with other programs, and problems persist even after reformat or drive replacement. It appears I may have to live with incomplete Defrag or do the restore and lose any added programs.

[Nelson37]

Haven't read the link yet, but -

I have never, ever seen a file system error that is persistent after a drive replacement. Anytime I have ever had a similar defrag failure followed by a chkdsk failure to correct an indicated problem, drive replacement and/or drive reformat has corrected the error. On the rare occassions where the controller has failed, this has shown up as failures during partition, format, or OS intstall.

Backed up lately?

[bevills1]

Yes, a Ghost image on an external USB drive was created as soon as the problem appeared. In instances where drive replacement and/or drive reformat has corrected the errors seen was an image restored to reformatted or replaced drive, or was a new install done? A new install would likely fix such errors, but then all program apps that came with the laptop would be gone and all data created since I got the laptop as well.

Edit: Files Defrag reported as not able to be defragmented were in the Desktop folder that's 9.24GB in size. The Desktop folder was moved to the external drive, and Defrag was then able to complete. Moving the Desktop folder back to the C drive results in incomplete Defrag when Defrag is then run, but analysis indicates the drive does not need to be defragmented. The chkdsk file system problems are still reported, but that's a known Windows glitch according to http://steinbaugh.com/journal/ntfs-file-system-glitch/. I suppose there must be something peculiar about some of those Desktop folder files that make them unable to be defragmented. Do you think there are any other steps I could or should do that might allow those Desktop files to be defragmented?

[Nelson37]

I just read most of a very long thread related to an error message which Specifically mentions a problem with "Security Descriptors". At no time have you mentioned this error, your error was the far more generic "problems with the file system". No relation whatsoever, IMO.

The problem does not survive a re-format, but may re-occur. It is related to write-caching and certain board and drive combinations. It has been a while, but I have encountered this specific problem in the past, either turning off caching or getting a different board and/or drive has always solved this. This error is far more specific than what you have reported and again, not at all related IMO.

There should not be 9.4 Gb of files in your Desktop. Not specifically a problem SFAIK, but it is something I would immediately change if encountered.

If you restore an image copy of corrupted data onto a new drive, then you have a brand new drive with corrupted data. Pointless. You either uncorrupt the data and make a new image or re-install.

Chkdsk and most disk repair operations cannot be effectively run within Windows, you need to schedule them to run pre-boot or from an install disk.

Now, what you have are some files that CAN be moved but CAN't be defragmented. BTW, having the names of some might be helpful.

What I would do at this point would be to remove all the suspect files, then focus on one that can be re-created or replaced with a new copy. Also what the heck are they and are they necessary. If you have ONE suspect file, which stops a defrag and CHKDSK won't fix, you replace that file with one that should be identical from a known good source, that should solve the problem or point to an answer. Massive corruption or virus infection can both cause these symptoms.

[Dv8ted2]

Subsequent to my last post chkdsk was run first and gave message "Windows has found problems with the file system" and suggested running chkdsk /f which was then run. However, running chkdsk again gave same result with same message and same suggestion. This was repeated numerous times (a half dozen or more times) with the same result. Apparently chkdsk finds problems and is unable to fix them which is likely the reason for the incomplete defrag. Is there another way to try to fix the file system problem?

Boot from the windows install cd and go into the repair console. You can try to fix the file system at that point.

[bevills1]

Included within the generic "problems with the file system" were Security Descriptors erros plus orphaned file recovery as well as file allocation attribute errors. Chkdsk /f was run on reboot, and I ran chkdsk from within Windows only to check if errors were corrected which they were not. I don't recall all the files but some are Word files and some are iso files.

In another forum I read a post that said Desktop files are in memory, can therefore not be defragged, can cause slow performance and that there should be no files on the Desktop and only shortcuts on the Desktop. I plan to move all files from the Desktop to another location that will resolve the incomplete Defrag issue and hopefully improve performance as well.

[RabidDog]

This very thing just happened to me .. and after three days of trying to fix it.. without formatting any drives.. I tried formatting the drives .. which still failed to work..Eventually I tried booting with an UBCD4.01 and used one of the utilitys to zeroise the first 64 sectors on the boot disk.(re-install windows) I did manage to get back 95% of my files after doing "quick" formats on Disks during the recovery process. I was also able to boot into a livecd linux, (proved hardware was good) but did all file recovery under windows. My problem was flagged as corrupt Mft (across three disks!) and to run ckhdsk /f under windows. chkdsk /mbr was also suggested.
Windows 7 STILL uses NTFS.(OTFS!)