VHS to DVD - is there any way I can improve quality of conversion?

[rairjordan]

Hey there,

I currently use a Panasonic DMR-E75 a standalone unit, for my VHS to DVD conversions:

http://www.panasonic.com.au/whats_new/media/details.cfm?detailsID=191&selectYear=2004

I am relatively happy with the output to DVD, however, our remote control has stopped working well and when I edit on the fly in real-time, I often press 'pause' on the DVD (to edit out ad breaks from the VHS) and it doesn't pause. Therefore, I am left with annoying 1-2 seconds of extra unwanted footage in between action (I am gradually transferring my old basketball games from VHS to DVD).

Anyhow, I have thought about just copying the VHS 'as-is' to DVD-RAM (it has DVD-RAM recording), then editing that recording using TMPGEnc, etc - then sending the edited version of that to DVD for my collection.

I am just curious if there are any better ways of converting these VHS tapes into a DVD format that I am unaware of, or you could kindly suggest me looking into. For instance, I saw an ad (from a national magazine here in Australia) for:

Pinnacle VideoTransfer: www.lako.com.au/page/pcuser

That looks pretty good and easy, but I am looking for the BEST quality I can get from these old VHS tapes.

Any suggestions appreciated - I can reply with further information, if needed.

Kind regards,

rairjordan

[johns0]

Buy a remote control such as Logitech Harmony Remote to replace yours.

[rairjordan]

Thanks for your reply, but the remote not working properly is what got me to think of alternatives that may be better end quality...

[orsetto]

Everyone defines the term "best" in a different way. There's positively, absolutely the "best" possible quality regardless of expense or effort, then there's the "best" one can accomplish with reasonably easy to use equipment within a reasonable time frame. You have to pick a range and then run with it.

Anytime one involves a PC with a VHS transfer project it complicates things enormously. As a general rule, capture cards do not like VHS signals at all: they much prefer input from tuners or other clean sources. Of course most people buy a capture card to capture VHS, and then spend months or years trying to acquire a combination of VHS deck, capture card and other hardware that are all compatible and work well together transferring their specific tapes. Some people luck out on their first try, others end up very frustrated. And for all that, unless you plan on truly learning and using the many image controls and authoring tools available on PC capture systems, you won't get "better" results than you would using much easier dedicated consumer hardware.

Most of us settle on using a separate VCR connected to a DVD recorder with built-in hard drive. This gives the most important editing abilities of a PC-based system but in a simpler form which allows viewing and editing directly on your TV. You record the VHS tape straight across to the recorders hard drive WITHOUT hovering around to cut commercials out in real time: set the machine to record two hours then go about your other business. After the tape has been captured to the hard drive, you can quickly and easily navigate the recording to cut out commercials precisely. If you hit the buttons wrong, you can "undo" and adjust the edit points until you're happy. Once satisfied, the recorder can high-speed copy the edited VHS recording to its internal DVD burner. Since the recording remains available on the internal hard drive until you delete it, its very easy to make additional backup copies onto other media. This is by far the "best" compromise between time, effort, convenience and image quality. Australia has a much better selection of DVD recorders with hard drives than the USA: you should be able to shop Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba and Sony models. There might also still be a Panasonic DMR-EH85 in oz: this was the same as your DMR-EH75 but with a hard drive added, creating a triple-combo-recorder.

If you have the time, patience and skill for a PC capture system, its true you can tweak and adjust each tape transfer on the fly to squeeze the maximum image quality from it. Some people prioritize ultimate image quality above all else, and will sacrifice other factors to achieve it. However, there is a finite limit to how much you can really "improve" a typical VHS sports tape using a PC over a DVD/HDD recorder, and the improvements are often less than you'd expect. It can be a difficult choice, and is usually determined by the quantity of tapes you need to transfer. Any more than 200 makes PC transfer unrealistic unless you're retired and can devote your life to this project.

[PuzZLeR]

Of course most people buy a capture card to capture VHS, and then spend months or years trying to acquire a combination of VHS deck, capture card and other hardware that are all compatible and work well together transferring their specific tapes. Some people luck out on their first try, others end up very frustrated.

I was one of those individuals. I spent years trying to convert my VHS tapes to a digital format to little success with such solutions (from 1999-2004). This changed when I got my DVR in 2004.

Now it's all about feeding the machine and coming back to it hours later, even overnight for 6 hour tapes. As Orsetto says, "you go about your other business" and you return later for the quick sorting. Nothing could be easier.

Keep in mind too that video capture, even today, is still a very resource intensive process. Your PC needs total dedication in real time. Do you really want this to hog your PC for hours and hours?

Now I am re-visiting the PC capture card solution, but that's only for a select few very important family vidz I left for last. As well, yes, the capture tech quite likely got better since 2004 (especially since the late 90s with those out-of-sync MPEG-1 captures through the printer port... ughhhh...) but I'm still not going to do it for over 200 tapes. Forget it. The Pareto Principle states that only 20% of your content is worth 80% of the total importance anyway.

Here's what I recommend as the "best" solution - "best" defined as best balance of time and quality.

-Capture with the unit at a high bitrate.
-Edit out, roughly, some of the content you know you won't need (to ease transfer).
-Migrate to PC via RW/RAM media.
-Use tools like TMPGEnc, or even VideoReDo and Womble to do your edits losslessly - it's so much faster with a mouse than a remote.
-I recommend using AviSynth for one final encode (with a good encoder like CCE) with filters and crops to clean up some VHS artifacts. This is subject to taste.
-Author and burn. PC-made DvD menus are always nicer and more customizable than cookie-cutter templates from a stand-alone unit.

I know a DVR/DvD Recorder isn't the most professional solution, but it's a whole lot quicker and easier for only a small, small quality penalty - a small price to pay for VHS content that wouldn't look great no matter what anyway.

Life's too short. Just feed the machine and move on.

[Endzone]

I believe I was one of those individuals who did it right the first time. BUT, I was willing to spend the money and the time on it. So, I started with a JVC HR-S9600U VCR for the best audio/video output. Then I fed that signal into a Canopus ADVC110 which converted the signal to DV AVI on my computer. Then I edited the DV AVI anyway I wanted with cuts/transitions/added text, etc. I then saved the edited DV AVI and then burned a DVD using Abobe Premiere Elements 6. Of course Premiere Elements 6 converted the DV-AVI to MPEG-2 for burning the DVD. The results were excellent. Yes it cost $ and time, but the results were outstanding.

I also tried the route of just using what was considered a good VCR/DVD combo unit--Panasonic DMR-EZ47V and quality of DVD was inferior, and the DVD would of had to been transferred onto my hard drive as MPEG-2 which is also more limited for editing.

Yes I believe I did it right the first time considering what I wanted to do, but as I say it was with much research and also I spent about $550 on the VCR (Used off Ebay), the Canopus unit and Adobe Premiere Elements 6.

[tluxon]

My "best" solution had been producing great results until this past weekend when my LiteOn LVW-5005 DVD recorder stopped accepting good recordable media. Now I'm investigating other methods as well, as I not only want digital "masters", but I like to "jukebox" home videos through our TiVoHDs.

For many years, I captured VHS and 8mm video tape with a couple ATi Radeon All-In-Wonder cards using various versions of MMC. By tweaking the use of filters (like videosoap) and settings I could achieve a very good result, but it was time-consuming to end up with the DVD spec MPEGs I was looking for and that method held my PC hostage - restricting which video cards I could use and multi-tasking led to occasional dropped frames.

I have dabbled with using my ReplayTVs for the analog-to-MPEG-2 conversion, and even though it was simple, it doesn't provide any use of filters since they are optimized for encoding a broadcast image. I never could get as good a result as with ATi AIW capture. I haven't tried using our TiVoHDs yet, but since they only have coax inputs I can't imagine the results would be any better.

When I picked up a LiteOn LVW-5005A DVD recorder a few years ago I discovered that I could easily achieve an extremely good result with very little trouble. A firmware hack disabled macrovision functionality (DVD recorders can treat home videos as if they were copy-protected with macrovision), make it region-free (not related to this thread), and add a 3-hour quality mode. Editing the resulting MPEGs on the PC with Womble or VideoRedo was frame accurate, simple, and extremely quick without lossy re-encoding (Womble and VideoRedo only re-encode around the cut points).

I've read that some people have had success swapping out the internal burner drive of their LiteOns. This would be great, but it's not trivial and not guaranteed to work. An alternative is to buy another DVD recorder, but they're getting harder to find, and I don't know which ones have the best filters and can be made macrovision free.

Endzone may well have come up with the most versatile and best bang-for-the-buck solution, as it's not tied to a burner, a failing remote, etc., and apparently provides a great result. I'd love to see comparisons or a sample, but it seems logical on paper. I wish I had known he was selling his ADVC 110 a few days ago because I'm also in the Seattle area and would've jumped all over the opportunity.

[sanlyn]

Hey there,

I currently use a Panasonic DMR-E75 a standalone unit, for my VHS to DVD conversions:

http://www.panasonic.com.au/whats_new/media/details.cfm?detailsID=191&selectYear=2004

I am relatively happy with the output to DVD, however, our remote control has stopped working well and when I edit on the fly in real-time, I often press 'pause' on the DVD (to edit out ad breaks from the VHS) and it doesn't pause. Therefore, I am left with annoying 1-2 seconds of extra unwanted footage in between action (I am gradually transferring my old basketball games from VHS to DVD).

Anyhow, I have thought about just copying the VHS 'as-is' to DVD-RAM (it has DVD-RAM recording), then editing that recording using TMPGEnc, etc - then sending the edited version of that to DVD for my collection.

I am just curious if there are any better ways of converting these VHS tapes into a DVD format that I am unaware of, or you could kindly suggest me looking into. For instance, I saw an ad (from a national magazine here in Australia) for:

Pinnacle VideoTransfer: www.lako.com.au/page/pcuser

That looks pretty good and easy, but I am looking for the BEST quality I can get from these old VHS tapes.

rairjordan

The Lako component you mention records to MPEG4, which is not the DVD standard. I'd suggest continuing to use your present recorder. Burn your recording to DVD if you aren't already recording directly to disc, then copy the video to a PC. An excellent MPEG2 editor can be had cheaply from TMPGenc; their editor can cut on non-key frames (which most consumer-grade MPG editors can't do) and will not harm the original video in any way.

You can then use whatever DVD authoring program you wish, though TMPGenc's software is excellent and affordable.

[Marvingj]

rairjordan, I think what you ar doing is pretty sound conversion, but to get the source (VHS) a little more crisp try using a Detailer or image enhancer, color corrector it could give you the edge you are looking for. Vidicraft is pretty good for the price.

[lordsmurf]

This is why the RESTORATION forum was started, to discuss how to get the most out of your videos, when archiving to DVD. Panasonic makes lousy MPEG encoders, and the signals are not filtered. So yes, there are many ways to get better quality, easy -- assuming there is a budget of at least a few hundred dollars to buy better equipment, plus some time learning it.

[Valnar]

I am in the middle of doing this right now, but I'm starting with my 8mm and Hi8 tapes first. I do have one of the recommended JVC VCR's for when I get to my VHS tapes.

I bought the Canopus ADVC-110 for capturing via firewire. After months (years ago) of using HuffyUV or PICvideo's MPJEG codec to an analog capture card, I gave up. The Canopus and DV is really the way to go. It's also extremely "editable" by almost any program. No more audio sync issues! And when I'm done, I'll recover most of my investment on eBay for others doing the same thing.

As to filtering and editing, there are several programs which do this, but VirtualDub works well and is free. For encoding, TMPGEnc DVD Author works great, albeit slow.

Five years ago I was all over MPEG-2 and trying to create DVD's. Now though, I'm just making MKV files with x264. AutoMKV is my program of choice (has filtering/cleaning capabilities too). Since many devices now play H.264 natively, I'm done with making DVD's unless the source is also DVD.

[pepegot1]

I get improved results using my JVC DR-M10S DVD recorder, and with a stabilizer connected to my VCR, to remove macrovision. The JVC unit noticeably improves the visual quality of the VHS tapes. I had some marginal tapes, which it made acceptable to me. Unfortunately, today it is not possible, to my knowledge, to get a recorder like the JVC. This market has gone to hell.

[deuce8pro]

I get improved results using my JVC DR-M10S DVD recorder, and with a stabilizer connected to my VCR, to remove macrovision. The JVC unit noticeably improves the visual quality of the VHS tapes. I had some marginal tapes, which it made acceptable to me. Unfortunately, today it is not possible, to my knowledge, to get a recorder like the JVC. This market has gone to hell.

Which stabilizer do you use with your JVC recorder and what kind of results do you have?

[sanlyn]

I get improved results using my JVC DR-M10S DVD recorder, and with a stabilizer connected to my VCR, to remove macrovision. The JVC unit noticeably improves the visual quality of the VHS tapes. I had some marginal tapes, which it made acceptable to me. Unfortunately, today it is not possible, to my knowledge, to get a recorder like the JVC. This market has gone to hell.

There are occasionally used and refurbished high-end Toshiba, Sony and Pioneer DVD recorders on a few websites and even eBay (caveat emptor). Good recorders are still widely sold in Europe -- apparently Euros are less interested in gimmicks and more interested in quality, not to mention having apparently higher IQ's than us gringos when it comes to using and maintaining such gear. I would avoid JVC's on the used or refurb market: performance and reliability with JVC started downhill some years ago, and Toshiba is starting to fall into step right behind them. Any Toshiba/Sony unit made after about 2004 is guaranteed DOA or will be within a few hours after delivery.

And you're absolutely right: the video market, especially in North America, has gone straight to hell.

By the way, what's a "stabilizer"? Do you mean a "TBC"?

[pepegot1]

deuce8Pro, et al
The stabilizer can be found at: http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/
Example: An old movie that played with varying brightness, and could not be recorded, was rerecorded with the above stabilizer attached and the result was a good copy, free of macrovision.

[deuce8pro]

deuce8Pro, et al
The stabilizer can be found at: http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/
Example: An old movie that played with varying brightness, and could not be recorded, was rerecorded with the above stabilizer attached and the result was a good copy, free of macrovision.

You're referring to the model with the s-video in/outputs?

[sanlyn]

Best enhancer out there, short of spending $5K:
http://www.signvideo.com/dr1000_image-enhancer_video-processor.htm

Pro quality TBC, with good basic proc amp built-in.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...Time_Base.html

[pepegot1]

I am referring to the model 100 with an AC adapter(not included presently.) The model 200 was not available when I made the purchase. For the price you cannot go wrong.

[sanlyn]

I am referring to the model 100 with an AC adapter(not included presently.) The model 200 was not available when I made the purchase. For the price you cannot go wrong.

I used exactly the same unit in the early 1990's, when you could buy them only via mail order or from electronics dealers who considered it to be rather shady stuff. It killed the contrast and softened the image, but I lived with it until I discovered the AV8710 via this forum. Of course, once I got the AV unit I had to go back and record most of those tapes again -- the difference was that great.

On the other hand, whatever works, works.

[R55B]

Re: Is there any way I can improve quality of conversion?

It helps alot to run your analog signal through a video editing board before lining-in to any capture device. This is a quick way to adjust color and color balance, enhance, and apply fader effects before capturing. Video editing boards vary in quality but I found several on ebay for resonable prices. A simple analog to DVD conversion (1 to 1) will not correct the analog signal beyond what your vhs player can do (TBC, noise reduction, etc). So I learned to edit the signal by passing it through a board before capture. After that, you can re-edit via software...

[lordsmurf]

I disagree with "JVC and Toshiba are DOA" comment. I was still able to buy good JVC and Toshiba recorders (the good models, used) as recent as Q4 2007. I didn't try in 2008, but I know some folks who also found them just fine.

JVC DR-M10, DR-M100, DR-MV5, DR-MV1 (don't use VCR in combos)
Toshiba XS-32, 34, 35, RK-50 (I forget exact letters on "50" model)

Easily some of the best DVD recorders ever made.

[ryan06]

Best way is to bring it into an NLE. Final Cut, Adobe Premiere Pro, Avid, Pinnacle, etc.

Your probably going to want to bring up the contrast a little. Other than that, VHS is not 720x480, nor does it have the bit rate that a DVD does. You can only do so much.