DV capture in Vegas not working

[Knightmessenger]

I'm trying to compare the picture on two of my vcr's. When I turn on the Sony video capture 4.0 the video doesn't show up properly. I feed it through a PYRO AV converter from ADS Technologies. Instead of a video signal I get one blocky still image as if it's dropping every frame. This is a home videotape so can't be something like Macrovision either. If I click Capture anyways I get the message that "an invalid argument was specified.
Does anybody know why this is happening? I've never had this problem before and now my capture only works some of the time. I even double checked to make sure all the cables were properly connected.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Can you view/capture it if you use Windows Movie Maker?

If not, it suggests a system-wide issue. If you can, it provides a workaround (as would WinDV).

[Knightmessenger]

I don't have windows movie maker. My computer was custom built.
I do have a PCI card that I could download some uncompressed capturing program like virtualdub but I've had problems and I'd rather wait until I get another hard drive so all my data can be completely off the one that stores the operating system. I just don't want to risk another crash.

[filmboss80]

Windows Movie Maker is software that comes with Windows XP. You can pull it up in Start > All Programs > Accessories. WinDV is free software that you can download from the Tools section on this site.

Your subject title speaks of DV video, but when you mention 2 VCRs with a Pyro AV converter, it sounds to me like you are doing an analog-to-digital capture. If that is the case, your issue may be a device control problem. Vegas may be looking for a firewire device instead of the Pyro interface. (The same will happen with Movie Maker or WinDV.) What do your Pyro instructions tell you about capturing?

[Knightmessenger]

I'm doing an analog to digital capture through a DV capture box. It could be looking for firewire instead of the Pyro like you say. But the pyro is connected with a firewire to the computer.
I just don't understand why it's doing this now when it's worked fine before.

[guns1inger]

Open the Vegas Capture module, then click on Options->Preferences. On the General tab, make sure Enable DV Device Control is not ticked.

[Knightmessenger]

I'm going to try that right away. But it turns out I do have Windows Movie Maker and it didn't seem as much of a joke as I always assumed it would be. Considering this is from 2003 the latest version might be pretty good now. It showed the video with the weird blockiness but at least it showed a moving image instead of being stuck on one frame like in Vegas. And it did capture something although it turned out to be the same image without any audio.


Okay that box was checked which I undid. What exactly does that do anyways? Tell the thing that it's a DV source you should be able to fast forward and rewind from the computer instead of it being an analog source?

Now all I'm getting is a black screen. The buttons to preview play and stop are even grayed out.

[guns1inger]

DV device control is for cameras and DV decks where you can control the playback of the tape. You cannot do this with your analogue to DV device. I have to turn this option off in Vegas to capture VHS through my DV camera in pass-through mode. If you play your tape using the VHS you should see image sin the preview window

[JohnnyMalaria]

The weird picture is a sure sign of the captured file being tagged as NTSC even though it is PAL (or vice versa) and so the DV decoder is decoding it incorrectly.

This often happens with camcorders that can play other formats (i.e., an NTSC camcorder playing PAL tapes).

To fix the problem, provide a signal to your converter *before* launching the capture software, check the manual for NTSC/PAL settings or check the capture settings in the software.

Basically, what happens is that - for camcorders at least - the device itself sends a signal that tells the other end what format it is primarily intended to support (i.e., PAL or NTSC). When capture software hooks up to the device, Windows provides some information so the capture software knows what it is dealing with. If the camcorder (or converter) can support another format, it will switch and transmit the DV signal with the correct format but the software will be assuming it hasn't changed. Having the camcorder/converter running prior to launching the capture software addresses this.

[Knightmessenger]

The video is NTSC. It is from a VHS-C camcorder tape played through one of those regular size vhs adapters. I have never captured PAL video on my computer so I have no idea why after reading it as NTSC, it would suddenly get confused by the signal.
The tape plays fine on my NTSC vcr and NTSC televison.

[edDV]

I suggest a step by step approach. Try WinDV or WMM first to see if DirectShow DV capture is working. Connect the Pyro first to a stable video source like a cable box. If that works then try the VCR as a source with device control off in WinDV or WMM. WMM calls this manual capture. If that works, then we can look at Vegas preference settings.

[minidv2dvd]

you might try this testing app. from ms. - from the adstech site.
WMCap
Version:7.0.22

Windows Media Resource Kit
WM Capture
Version 7.0.22

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia

Simple application for testing analog and DV capture devices.


http://www.adstech.com/products/API-558-EFS/downloads/applications/wmcap.exe

also check the website for corrected dip switch settings for a couple models.

[harley2ride]

Did you install the panasonic DV codec from the ADS CD.. I have used my ads pyro quite a bit, and I have never had a problem. There is also a button to push on the ads to switch capture modes. Mine is off by default, and each time, I have to push the button.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Please post a *very* short example (just one or two frames ideally) as an attachment and I will drill deep inside the file to see if it is a PAL/NTSC error. You'll have to use a file exactly as captured, not a portion rendered from Vegas. You made need to put it on a file hosting website.

[Knightmessenger]

I actually had my computer taken into the shop. The guys there have told me they tried to update it but the problem is with the capture box. They think it has just worn out and needs to be replaced. Does that make sense?

And any suggestions about a good DV capture box that works with Vegas? I know a capture card is better but I already have one (PDI Deluxe) and it's been even more difficult to work with.

[edDV]

I actually had my computer taken into the shop. The guys there have told me they tried to update it but the problem is with the capture box. They think it has just worn out and needs to be replaced. Does that make sense?

And any suggestions about a good DV capture box that works with Vegas? I know a capture card is better but I already have one (PDI Deluxe) and it's been even more difficult to work with.

Unlikely that a typical computer shop will know much about the ADS Pyro. A capture card is not "better" just a different can of worms.

Did you try connecting the Pyro to a known good source (e.g. a cable box) and use WinDV or WMM?

I doubt the Pyro box died but that is possible.

[Knightmessenger]

Why would connecting the Pyro to a cable box help?

The last time it worked was when it captured from RCA cables from a dvd player. But that's a digital source, maybe the thing hasn't completely died but just isn't strong enough to capture analog video anymore. It does seem that it dropped more and more frames over the years so maybe it just gradually wore out.

[edDV]

Why would connecting the Pyro to a cable box help?

The last time it worked was when it captured from RCA cables from a dvd player. But that's a digital source, maybe the thing hasn't completely died but just isn't strong enough to capture analog video anymore. It does seem that it dropped more and more frames over the years so maybe it just gradually wore out.

A cable box (composite or S-Video) will be free of Macrovision or any other anti-copy technology. DVD players have Macrovision by default. You use the cable box to see if the Pyro works at all. Then you add VHS issues after that.

Idea is to minimize side issues. Among the issues is PAL source which will not be on cable in the USA.

[Knightmessenger]

Okay, the guy at the shop tried out the panasonic DV codec and WMcap. Neither worked.
I'm thinking that the thing is dead and I'll need to replace it. So what would you recommend? I've found the an updated model of the Pyro and a Canopus on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/ADS-API-558-EFS-Pyro-Video-Converter/dp/B000I7YP06/ref=sr_1_1?ie...2850932&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00030ATTO/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

I have the ADS 557 which is more rounded and less flat like the current 558 model. Will either of these be a good replacement? Will one be better at not dropping frames, especially during rough vhs edit points (with the squiggly rainbow line)?

[edDV]

Okay, the guy at the shop tried out the panasonic DV codec and WMcap. Neither worked.
I'm thinking that the thing is dead and I'll need to replace it. So what would you recommend? I've found the an updated model of the Pyro and a Canopus on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/ADS-API-558-EFS-Pyro-Video-Converter/dp/B000I7YP06/ref=sr_1_1?ie...2850932&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00030ATTO/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

I have the ADS 557 which is more rounded and less flat like the current 558 model. Will either of these be a good replacement? Will one be better at not dropping frames, especially during rough vhs edit points (with the squiggly rainbow line)?

Did you use WinDV for the test? You don't need a codec. You are just capturing data. Just capture then play with VLC.

BTW Panasonic DV codec is destructive to DV high levels. Cedodica DV codec should be used with Virtualdub.

[Knightmessenger]

I'm sorry but I'm a little confused. Could you explain how to test using WinDV again?
And what's VLC?
I've tried virtual dub before (and had problems) but that was for uncompressed captures with my PDI card, not using a DV capture box. Are you saying I should try capturing in Vdub from my current Pyro box?

What I'm really interested in is your opinion of whether the Pyro or Canopus would be a better device, particularly when it comes to handling rough analog video.

[edDV]

I'm sorry but I'm a little confused. Could you explain how to test using WinDV again?
And what's VLC?
I've tried virtual dub before (and had problems) but that was for uncompressed captures with my PDI card, not using a DV capture box. Are you saying I should try capturing in Vdub from my current Pyro box?

What I'm really interested in is your opinion of whether the Pyro or Canopus would be a better device, particularly when it comes to handling rough analog video.

I have the Canopus ADVC-100 and am pleased for most analog captures. The ADVC uses a similar hardware DV codec to the Sony line of DV camcorders. The ADS Pyro tries to do the same thing but some report less stability. I don't do much VHS capture so I haven't compared the two side by side for "rough video".

These units take analog composite or S-Video in (the new Pyros also accept 480i analog component) and output* DV format over IEEE-1394. At the computer WinDV receives the DV stream and creates a file on the hard disk. There is no codec envolved except the MSDV codec is used to monitor the stream. Thre is no codec in the signal path to the file.

Once you have the file on the hard drive you can play it with WMP (uses MSDV codec), VLC (uses internal DV codec) or other player. The various editing applications will use an internal DV codec or allow use of MSDV or an external DV codec. This is usually set in the editor preference settings. Virtualdub uses a "Video for Windows" codec. Only one of those can be installed at any one time. For Virtualdub you should install the Cedodica DV codec for DV input and output.


* The ADVC 1xx and Pyro also accept a DV stream over IEEE-1394 and output analog video. This feature is often used for edit timelime monitoring.

[Knightmessenger]

An update: the guy at the shop figured out the problem. Turns out it was something incredibly simple and stupid. On the back are these 4 tiny dip switches. Those need to be set in the down position to work and they somehow weren't.