Replacing a HDD on the Sony RDR-HX780 or Pioneers WITHOUT a service remote!

[highvolumeJP]

I was thinking - maybe there could be a magical way to replace a hard drive inside a Pioneer 560 or Sony 780 that now require a service remote and disc to "prepare" the new HDD.

What if - you took the working HDD out of the recorder and made a 1:1 clone (using acronis trueimage for example) to another IDENTICAL sized or bigger sized HDD - the 1:1 clone would copy the entire partitions as-is. Once the HDD fails, you would remove it and replace it with its clone - would this work ??? Or does the recorder check for the drive's serial # info rather than check for special files on the HDD ?

[orsetto]

It doesn't work: the recorder somehow "knows" it isn't the same drive. People have been trying various approaches to get around the Pioneer service tools for years, with no success. The recorder pulls some info from the drive controller and stores it using the service remote and disc. If you swap in another drive, even a cloned one, the motherboard will compare the data and see it doesn't quite match, causing an HDD ERR issue.

While it is a complete pain that these machines absolutely require service tools to change hard drives, this is compensated by the fact that Pioneers (and the Sonys based on them) will accept pretty much any random hard drive you choose to install, and make full use of any random capacity. I have not heard of any other brand that allows this: they either need exactly the same make and capacity drive they shipped with (difficult later, since hard drives evolve and are obsoleted quickly), or they will completely ignore the "excess" capacity of a larger drive and format it to the recorders originally specified capacity (an annoying waste when you install a 320GB drive only to see it formatted as 80GB). Pioneers are very flexible by contrast.

Current or potential owners/buyers of Pioneers should not get overwhelmed by the endless Pioneer repair instruction threads we have here on VH: they began four years ago when nobody knew what to do, and the first two-three dozen posts are scary and negative because of that. Nowadays we have it pretty well down, many members provide info on how to obtain a service disc, and there are a number of ways to fake out the service remote using a PC transmitter or some types of programmable remote you may already own. For those who can afford it, dedicated high-quality "knock-off" service remotes are available from remote vendors for about $45. Long term, its a good investment.

[highvolumeJP]

What does it poll off the drive is the real question - if it is only poling the brand and product ID, then you could use a similar HDD, same brand, capacity and model #. If it is polling the serial number, which I think it is, then you are screwed It could also be checking some config files stored on the HDD.

As to getting into service mode - it is my understanding from reading a post here that once you activate service mode you CANNOT exit it without actually servicing something - is this true or did I misunderstand ?

[orsetto]

Its never been clear what exact data is used in the startup self-check: the system has proved resistant to reverse engineering. The service remote and service disc combine info from the hard drive controller board and the recorders motherboard into a third set of data which is encrypted and tagged with the machine CPRM number burned into the motherboard. Since the data on the service disc is proprietary and unreadable by other means, and the user data entered in service mode consists solely of the nine-digit CPRM number, there is nothing a user can examine or fake out: the service tools are required, and that's the end of it. The system has proven uncrackable.

You can exit service mode at any time unless you have made a change, in which case you need to follow thru with the correct procedures or back out of the change before safely exiting. Simply activating the service screen doesn't change anything, and at most stages of service you have the option to cancel or exit without saving changes. Of course there are those who can't resist experimenting: if you just hit random service buttons blindly or start messing with nested subscreens, you can majorly screw up the recorder. This would be true of any service procedure to any complex electronics. A DVD/HDD recorder is not a simple electro-mechanical VCR: its a single-purpose computer with a hard drive, operating system and application software that will balk if tampered with incorrectly. The service remote, service screens and service discs interact with that programming.

[highvolumeJP]

What kind of options can you change with the service menu, other than initializing a new HDD ? What else can be done ?

[orsetto]

You can check the "mileage" on the burner and HDD, you can replace firmware if it gets corrupted (but only with a Pioneer computer), you can replace or repair the motherboard and other parts, some models can have their menu display fonts adjusted, and so forth. Most of the subscreens involve testing various circuits and the two drives for correct performance: this is very dangerous, because test mode takes those circuits and software offline. If you don't know exactly what you're doing or hit the wrong button, you can irreversibly deactivate crucial recorder functions which will need to be reset at a Pioneer facility.

Following Hkans simplified hard drive replacement instructions at his pioneerfaq site is pretty harmless, as long as you don't stray from the text. Drive replacement requires only a couple of service keys and entering the CPRM number when prompted: you have to be pretty incompetent to screw that up. If you're clever enough to physically remove the HD from the recorder, you're clever enough to follow thru with reprogramming the new drive: it takes all of thirty seconds, including running the service disc software.