Anything is possible, but these are the S-video and VGA pinouts from http://pinouts.ru/ :
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I suppose the 15 pin shell could have some chips inside it. But I suspect it's expensive (for a cable) because it's very old and rare (for use with a specific 1990 era monitor).
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Ok, so from what you guys are saying I have to assume that the guy I was talking to did not know what he was talking about!!! This is why I am here.
So I have excepted that the conversion is not possible without major loss in data.
So...since I am good friens with the guy who makes the cameras, I can maybe get him to mod my camera.
Is it possible to rewire a composite output to a VGA? Does it depend on the board he is using for the camera?
Neil -
A composite port cannot be rewired to VGA. But whatever video DAC he's using for composite output may have the ability to output VGA instead.
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Originally Posted by smokinoakum
I'll try to catch up this weekend.
Conversion to VGA before analog output would take a total redesign. First estimate is in the high six figures.
Got budget?
VGA is analog RGB+HV sync. It is intended for display not capture.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
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Originally Posted by jagabo
Neil -
Originally Posted by smokinoakum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAMDAC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Graphics_Array
http://www.karbosguide.com/hardware/module7b1.htm
http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/faq/vga2rgb/Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
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A video DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) converts a digital frame buffer to an analog video signal. Modern video DACs are pretty flexible so it may be able to output RGB at VGA scan rates. In fact the design may use a device like this to convert RGB to composite video:
http://www.analog.com/en/digital-to-analog-converters/video-encoders/ad725/products/product.html -
One should avoid the analog conversion except for TV monitoring. If capture is the goal, output one of the established digital transfer standards (e.g. RGB, IEEE-1394, SMPTE-259M, SMPTE-292M).
For Astronomy, most would use at least 24bit RGB unless the goal is to feed broadcast TV or DVD.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
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I think it would be a good idea to try to contact Epiphan and find out from them whether the set up you have in mind will work. I'd want at least a second opinion before spending around $900 on equipment without being sure I could use it, especially since some of the more expert members of this forum have doubts about it.
I suppose if you are able to borrow the Epiphan capture device your friend has access to, you could buy the S-Video to VGA adaptor and run an experiment. Wasting $75 plus shipping would be preferable to wasting $900. -
Thanks for the info guys. I do know that there are digital components in the camera itself, so there must be a DAC somewhere in there. I don't want to get my hopes up, but if it is possible for him to do it, it will be done. One of the perks of being a beta tester is asking for improvements, and getting them as long as it is something that can be rewired inside the camera, and doesn't mess with how it functions.
Neil -
Originally Posted by smokinoakum
Are you trying to capture to a computer? Or just display on a TV?
There is no reason to convert to analog if the former. Ask for a digital interface.
Converting analog NTSC composite to VGA should be considered Archaeology, not Astronomy.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
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Originally Posted by edDV
Either unit gives me the flexiblity to capture high quality video/stills, be able to stream lossless feeds to my site for broadcasting, and record sessions out in the field. I also work in the medical field, and the device will be used there to to record screens for our techs to analize later.
My company has already approved the purchase of either on these units.
Neil -
Hey guys, I just heard back from the camera maker, and this is what he said in his email...
Neil,
"Thanks for the input. I had a crazy day again at work and had no time to look into rewiring the camera to VGA. If theVideo Processor has the third output it may be possible to do so. If its the case, resolution would not only increase but image sensitivity would be further improved too. I'll work on it this weekend. Been going for several months 7 days a week at 14 to 16 hours at the shop. Iwill dedicate tomorrow for the research on your VGA upgrade."
This kinda sounds promising. Now if he finds that he can wire it for VGA, will this mean that he could also do it for DVI?
Neil -
Sounds promising. But as edDV said, if you can get at the digital data right from the CCD or frame buffer (thereby avoiding analog all together) you will be even better off.
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I'm not sure if this is the best example but it is "an" example of a telescope CCD imager that maintains digital for USB frame grabs. This is a better approach for image quality. The IIC accessory port uses standard interface protocol for any hired geek who can program microcontrollers.
http://www.sbig.com/sbwhtmls/newcameras.htm
Here are some more
http://www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=astro-imaging_camera/~pcategory...ED1CAE.ivprod1
This approach uses separate sensors for targeting and then image capture. Various capture methods can be used to gather more light with less noise including frame averaging. This allows a small Autostar scope to behave like a larger model.
http://content.telescope.com/rsc/img/catalog/product/instructions/IN_324B_StarShoot_AutoGuider.pdfRecommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Originally Posted by edDV
But here is a shot I took from my SBIG about a month ago.
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Originally Posted by jagabo
Do you guys have any exapmle of how he would pull this off?
Neil -
I'm in the market for a remote targeting option for my Meade Maksutov-Cassegrain Autostar myself. Winter is great for dark skies but it gets cold out there.
Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Originally Posted by smokinoakumRecommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Originally Posted by edDV
No matter which is possible, I feel he will stay with the best quality most used source by people who aren't into astro photography. This is the target client that he has, and bussiness is good.
Neil -
I think you are asking too much of this fellow. He chose components for analog composite/S-Video output, low power and low cost. That would not include deluxe components that had VGA/DVI out. Let's hear what he says but give him a break. He was targeting people wanting to monitor on a home TV and record with a home VCR or standalone DVD recorder.
Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Originally Posted by edDV
Case in point about the suggestion for a DVI output. Here is what he said.
"If we remove the video processor the image will never be as nice as what we are getting now. The internal video processor is a 14 bits type and is very high performance. The VGA on the other hand could be a nice addition, and a boost in quality in color signal. I will look into the VGA option for secondary output this weekend."
See he knows when he likes an idea, and when he does not.
Neil -
Originally Posted by smokinoakumRecommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Originally Posted by edDV
The question is, which source would you prefer for resolution, VGA or S Video??? DVI is not a option as far as he is concerned.
Neil -
VGA can be anywhere from 320x200 to something like 2560x1920 for each of the three color components. NTSC s-video is roughly 640x480 for the luma channel, 320x480 for the chroma channels. So obviously VGA can be better or worse. The web site claims "TOTAL PIXELS 811(H) X 508(V)." Here's the data sheet: http://www.sony.co.jp/~semicon/english/img/sony01/a6805298.pdf. The usable portion of the CCD appears to be 768x494.
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So for the conversion you say to produce VGA he needs to add a VGA capable RAMDAC plus analog RGBHV out components and a D*-15 connector. Is this the information I need to pass on to him, and is there any source of how to do this that I can sight that you know of? I'm pretty sure he would know how, but you never know. Also, do you have any idea on the cost involved in doing this?
Neil -
Originally Posted by smokinoakum
If I understand your needs, you see this as a group viewing imager rather than a frame capture device. As such it still seems to me that digital video out via USB2 would be more useful for computer display or network streaming. VGA is useful for simple connection to a computer monitor or a LCD-TV with a PC port. VGA cable lengths become problematic over about 6 meters.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Well as Mr Mallin stated earlier ("If we remove the video processor the image will never be as nice as what we are getting now. The internal video processor is a 14 bits type and is very high performance.") it would seam that he is not interested in converting it to a digital out, but has some interest in the VGA conversion since a lot of his customers do have a typical computer monitor with those connections. When you talk about a VGA connection as a simple connection to a computer monitor or a LCD-TV with a PC port, you hit the demographic of the people who buy these units. Plus if it was a USB out he would need software with WDM drivers for it to appeal to some.
As far as the sources you listed, should I google them for VGA display card to give him examples?
Thanks!
Neil
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