Transfer video signal from PC to an OLD TV?

[therock003]

What's the best way to carry video signal from files stored on a computer to an old TV with only composite SCART or plain video (yellow connector) inputs?

I guess converting digital to analog signal would be a bad idea e.g hooking up a dvi or an hdmi cable from the computer end and have a converter to turn it to composite on the other end (TV).

On the past i've also tried svideo2video since my laptop only had s-video output,but that seemed like a bad idea as well since there was a lot of white noise and dots appearing all over the screen + the colours were all messed up and kinda blurry.

So i guess would a straight composite to composite approach would be best?What d'ya reckon?

[redwudz]

Assuming a desktop computer, I would just get a PCI video card with composite output. Or a better TV.

[therock003]

Well since this is a summerhouse there's no option for getting a better TV,but i can spent money on computer related stuff.

Actually i'm looking more in a laptop and since i intend to buy a new one, what kind of output shold i look into.

Is there really a composite output?By that you mean the yellow hole right?

Is a vga (Dsub output) the same one?Cause most laptops offer vga output with tv-out and there are cheap cables on ebay that convert vga to composite if the vga supports tv-out.

So will a vga with this converter be the same with direct composite output or will there be any significant losses?

[jagabo]

If you are going to a standard definition TV you have to use composite, s-video. Composite is the worst quality, component the best. All will be crappy compared to the cheapest computer monitor. SD TV has a resolution of about 640x480 for the gray scale image, 320x480 for the color portion of the image. If you can run your computer at 640x480 you'll get the best image quality. Higher resolutions are digitally downsized to 640x480 then output through the SD port. You cannot run Windows this way it will be too fuzzy. It will be OK for watching SD video though.

This post https://forum.videohelp.com/topic345015.html#1849172 has a rough example of what happens to a 1024x768 desktop when output to an s-video port.

Your best bet is to use both the computer and the TV -- run the desktop on the computer and use the video port in "theater mode" where whatever is playing in a media player, even when windowed, appears full screen (with the correct aspect ratio) on the TV port.

VGA is completely different than TV video. Actually, a long time ago, VGA cards used to be able to output RGB at TV compatible frequencies. Since SCART supports RGB you might have been able to use that. But I don't think modern graphics cards support that any more.

[therock003]

Well yes i know all of the above and i do know that there is no win for me here.

I just want what's best with what i already got.

And that's an old 27" TV with composite input (Not even s-video, just a scart input on the back).

Since it's just a house i drop by on vacation (Christmas/Easter) it would be overkill to buy an LCD TV only for this purpose, or even getting a cheap CRT (if i could find one) for that matter.

All i want is to play compressed video files most of them below 640x480 resolution so i understand the risks and there's no love lost.

A)Ok now for the tecnical part.Laptops do not seem to come equipped with composite output and since it is my best bet,how can I get a laptop to output signal this way, so i can make a composite2composite transfer?

B)What's theater mode?Can't i use extended mode, so i can just use the TV as a secondary monitor in a 640x480 resolution?Cause that i guess would be better.

C)One more thing,i dont understan d what you said when you mention that on colour mode the resolution drops to 320x480.Where happens with the remaining 320?

[guns1inger]

The resolution doesn't drop to 320 x 480, but the colour portion of the signal is represented by 320 x 480, while the balance goes to the luma portion of the signal.

You can get scart back shells that have s-video in. If this doesn't convert to composite then you will get a black and white image.

The cheapest option is probably just to get a cheap DVD player with Divx playback and burn movies to disc. It will be cheaper than getting a VGA -> composite converter, and will give you a better image than the svideo2video that you have previously used.

[therock003]

The resolution doesn't drop to 320 x 480, but the colour portion of the signal is represented by 320 x 480, while the balance goes to the luma portion of the signal.

I still dont understans this statement.How can the colour portion be represented as 320x480?

You can get scart back shells that have s-video in. If this doesn't convert to composite then you will get a black and white image.

Actually this is what i previously tried i didnt mean svideo2video i meant svideo to composite via scart with svideo input,and picture was awful.

Is there really no easy way for composite2composite without the use of any converters or boxes?

Burning discs is also not a great way i might as well get a portable media player with hard disc included but i thought it would be more convenient to send the signal directly from the computer.

[jagabo]

A)Ok now for the tecnical part.Laptops do not seem to come equipped with composite output

Some do. Some come with a combined s-video, composite, and component connector. Usually a 7 pin mini DIN. An s-video cable plugs right in (4 pins of the cable line up with 4 pins on the connector). A pigtail is needed for component.

and since it is my best bet,how can I get a laptop to output signal this way, so i can make a composite2composite transfer?

I guess you tried one of those little s-video to composite converters? They usually work OK.
http://www.hometech.com/video/svconv.html

B)What's theater mode?

Theater mode uses the graphics card's video overlay feature to display the contents of the media player full screen on the TV output. It usually gives the best picture, requires the least CPU power, and allows you to use separate brightness, contrast and color controls for the video output. ATI calls this Theater Mode. Matrox calls it DVD Max mode. I forget what Nvidia calls it -- True Video or something like that.

Can't i use extended mode, so i can just use the TV as a secondary monitor in a 640x480 resolution?Cause that i guess would be better.

Yes, you can use extended mode. It usually won't be better and you may have to disable video overlay for it to work.

C)One more thing,i dont understan d what you said when you mention that on colour mode the resolution drops to 320x480.Where happens with the remaining 320?

Analog video splits the gray scale and color components into separate signals (hence the separate wires for them in an s-video cable). The color components are transmitted with half the bandwidth of the gray scale image. This blurs the color horizontally resulting in 320x480 or less resolution in the colors. Oh, sorry, you're in a PAL country so it will be 320x576.

[guns1inger]

Also, depending on the age of the laptop and type of graphics it has, you may not get smooth playback from extended mode or dual screen mode. My older Toshiba A200 (3 years old now) with built-in Intel gfx would only give smooth playback through the s-video port if that was the only screen in use. Dual screen or extended desktop produces shuddering video as frames were skipped.

[therock003]

Usually a 7 pin mini DIN.

Any picture of how that looks like so i can get the idea?

I guess you tried one of those little s-video to composite converters? They usually work OK.
http://www.hometech.com/video/svconv.html

No actually i havent, are they any good?Do they convert the signal in any way?

As i mentioned i've only tried svideo 2 composite via the svideo input of the scart and it was horrible.

This is the thing



As i mentioned it produced lots of noise and hissing on the picture and colour corruption.

Itried it on a TV that had both scart and s-video inputs and hooking svideo2svideo directly didnt have the problems imentioned so i know that it was the converter that produced all this noise.[/quote]

[redwudz]

The 7 pin looks just like the 4 pin, just more pins:

[jagabo]

I guess you tried one of those little s-video to composite converters? They usually work OK.
http://www.hometech.com/video/svconv.html

No actually i havent, are they any good?Do they convert the signal in any way?

Yes, they work. Certainly better than your description of what you saw with the SCART adapter. I've only used them with NTSC systems though.

[therock003]

Yes, they work. Certainly better than your description of what you saw with the SCART adapter. I've only used them with NTSC systems though.

How so?I mean SCART is just composite video + the 2 audio jacks.I dont understand why there should be any difference if svideo results to scart out instead of just plain video out?

BTW I am on PAL, how could that affect things considering it differs from NTSC standards?

Isnt there any USB dongle or other hardware peripheral with composite video output? There seem to be lots of them with such inputs used wih video recording/streaming but arent there any accesories that allow output instead of input of a video signal?

redwudz

You mean it resembles the s-video in pins but it acts like composite/svideo componenent output just like jagabo described?

I have an older toshiba (dowsnt work anymore) which had the 4pin svideo out.That's what i used in the old days for testing the signal transmission.

But i havent seen a laptop with this 7 pin you guys are describing.

[edDV]

The 4 pin S-Video to single coax composite adapter is a simple sum. S-video has luminance Y on one coax and 4.43MHz quadrature modulated PAL colour C on the second. When summed you get composite PAL. The capacitor provides DC isolation between Y and C.

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

[edDV]

Isnt there any USB dongle or other hardware peripheral with composite video output? There seem to be lots of them with such inputs used wih video recording/streaming but arent there any accesories that allow output instead of input of a video signal?

USB is a data communication port and does not connect to the display chipset output. You can feed a digital video stream out the USB port but to get to composite analog you need a digtal to analog conversion device that has similar function to a display card.

Recently USB "external video card" solutions with VGA/DVI out have been introduced but I haven't seen one yet with S-Video or composite video out.
http://revver.com/video/588333/usb-display-adapter-for-vga-or-dvi-monitors/

[redwudz]

But i havent seen a laptop with this 7 pin you guys are describing.

My laptop (Compaq F750US) has a 7 pin S-video jack.

[edDV]

But i havent seen a laptop with this 7 pin you guys are describing.

My laptop (Compaq F750US) has a 7 pin S-video jack.

Pins 1-4 = S-Video are the same for all laptop DIN TV ports. The function of pins 5, 6 and 7 vary by display chipset in use. Some older models have composite on one of the pins. Some use pins 5-7 for YPbPr. Some have even added audio to pins 6 and 7. You need to read your laptop manual to find pin assignments.

Modern laptops with NVidia chipsets have 9 pin TV ports. These have composite, S-Video and YPbPr out pins.

[therock003]

But i havent seen a laptop with this 7 pin you guys are describing.

My laptop (Compaq F750US) has a 7 pin S-video jack.

Pins 1-4 = S-Video are the same for all laptop DIN TV ports. The function of pins 5, 6 and 7 vary by display chipset in use. Some older models have composite on one of the pins. Some use pins 5-7 for YPbPr. Some have even added audio to pins 6 and 7. You need to read your laptop manual to find pin assignments.

Modern laptops with NVidia chipsets have 9 pin TV ports. These have composite, S-Video and YPbPr out pins.

Any known brand computer that comes out with such port? Cause at least here on my country i can only find modern computers which have hdmi and or dvi out mostly and just a vga out if they're cheap. I cant seem to find the ones with 7 or 9 pins output.

BTW wikipedia article mention that DIN connector go up to 8 pins they font seem t mention the existence of 9 pin DIN connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector

[jagabo]

So you'd rather buy an new laptop than a $5 converter that uses the same s-video to composite summing circuit?

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

[therock003]

No of course not. It's just that i intend to buy an ew laptop anyway cause mine is pretty old and useless by now so among others i'm looking for it to have the right outputs sinceit's for the utmost importance for me to be able to connect to TV's monitors and watch video files.

Newer laptops dont even have svideo.

As i said its either hdmi/dvi or vga.

So any idea where i can find this 9 pin output?

[jagabo]

I would recommend using s-video with the composite adapter now. Or get a VGA to PAL scan converter (which won't look any better than the s-video/composite converter and will cost you ~US$100). Get a new laptop with DVI or HDMI output when you get an HDTV.

there are cheap cables on ebay that convert vga to composite if the vga supports tv-out

Those cables are extremely unlikely to work with our laptop.

[edDV]

But i havent seen a laptop with this 7 pin you guys are describing.

My laptop (Compaq F750US) has a 7 pin S-video jack.

Pins 1-4 = S-Video are the same for all laptop DIN TV ports. The function of pins 5, 6 and 7 vary by display chipset in use. Some older models have composite on one of the pins. Some use pins 5-7 for YPbPr. Some have even added audio to pins 6 and 7. You need to read your laptop manual to find pin assignments.

Modern laptops with NVidia chipsets have 9 pin TV ports. These have composite, S-Video and YPbPr out pins.

Any known brand computer that comes out with such port? Cause at least here on my country i can only find modern computers which have hdmi and or dvi out mostly and just a vga out if they're cheap. I cant seem to find the ones with 7 or 9 pins output.

BTW wikipedia article mention that DIN connector go up to 8 pins they font seem t mention the existence of 9 pin DIN connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector

Compaq/HP laptops with NVidia GO or higher graphics chipsets.
Models vary. Check with mfgr before you buy.

[therock003]

Ok i will have a look at compag laptops to see if i can find one.

Couple of last questions (I promise i wont ask anything else!)

A)Is the quality the same, if the tv has a composite video input and you hook the cable directly rather than connect the yellow pin to a SCART converter and then connect to a SCART input?

B)Will an s-video2video setup have worse quality than video2video or will it have the same?

[jagabo]

A)Is the quality the same, if the tv has a composite video input and you hook the cable directly rather than connect the yellow pin to a SCART converter and then connect to a SCART input?

Unless there is some problem with the SCART adapter the quality should be the same. All the SCART adapter does is route the composite video to the correct pin on the SCART connector.

B)Will an s-video2video setup have worse quality than video2video or will it have the same?

s-video to s-video will have the best quality. s-video to composite adapter (simple passive circuit as described earlier) will have lower quality (dot crawl and rainbow artifacts). A TV with a good 3d comb filter will clean most of that up though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl

[therock003]

I'm bumping this thread since i need to explore this subject a little bit more.

A)Is the quality the same, if the tv has a composite video input and you hook the cable directly rather than connect the yellow pin to a SCART converter and then connect to a SCART input?

Unless there is some problem with the SCART adapter the quality should be the same. All the SCART adapter does is route the composite video to the correct pin on the SCART connector.

s-video to s-video will have the best quality. s-video to composite adapter (simple passive circuit as described earlier) will have lower quality (dot crawl and rainbow artifacts). A TV with a good 3d comb filter will clean most of that up though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl

I dont think it's a scart adapter problem. Is there a chance that the SCART input of the TV doesnt support svideo from the scart? Cause i have tried this on 3 TV's. The first Two display the noise i mentioned but the 3rd and newer model displays picture quality equal as pluging the s-video directly (Although on black & white)...

Besides that, since i'm thinking of getting this amplifier i have been talking about, what is the best way to transfer video signal from the VGA to an amplifier?

[mikeylikesit33]

A new thought on the problem.

I went through all the suggestions here years ago. Got a whole drawer of converters, cables, etc to prove it. My final solution was much easier and more userful.

1) Buy a Tivo.
2) Connect it to your TV
3) enable wireless on your laptop
4) Use a program called pyTivo (google it) to stream movies, music, etc.

I have over 2000 xvids and 5000 mp3s on my hard drive. pyTivo provides nice easy to use menu's and streams up to 720p resolution very quickly on even a slow computer.

Yes, there is a cost to a Tivo but they are useful in so many other ways... why not.

OR

If you want a cheaper way out, buy a Linksys media extender. Works perfectly well if all you are after is streaming movies from a computer to a TV.

[therock003]

Well as far as solutions for browsing videos go i got many, thing is i want to utilize the tv-out port of laptops and extend a TV as an external monitor.

So my post above still stands, thanx though for taking time to state your suggestions but i'm afraid it is only focused on media playback.

[jagabo]

Is there a chance that the SCART input of the TV doesnt support svideo from the scart?

Yes. Although the symptom you describe isn't what's expected. The SCART s-video luma input pin is the same pin used for composite input. There is a second pin for s-video chroma input. If the TV only supports composite input I believe you should be getting a clear but black and white picture. What you're describing sounds more like a ground loop (noise) problem.

[therock003]

Ok so i thought maybe it's better to see for yourself.

Since my laptop doesnt work anymore i had to use the PS2 for the svideo connection test.

I used on the LG the first of the 2 TV's that experience this problem. Here are the results. First picture is direct svideo connection and second is svideo connect to scart adaptor connected to TV's scart input.





You can definitely notice the distortion, just look closely and you should see it. Mostly notice the blue color on the top of the screen fading away from each object displayed there. Morever things are not as bad as they seem they are even worse. This is a paused screen from a PS2 Game, so i could take the picture stills, thing is though that this is noise wasnt static, the blue color fading away was moving when picture was displayed in the screen, which makes it worse!

Also if you were in front of the TV at the time you would notice much more difference which doesnt show up on this pocture but this is the best i could get, sorry...

[jagabo]

I don't know what would cause that type of distortion -- like the blue horizontal lines to the left of the three objects that look close parenthesis. My first thought was a low pass filter on the chroma signal but that wouldn't move around as you describe.

Do the blue lines bounce up and down quickly? Do they just move in one direction? Do they flicker off and in but stay in the same place? Or is their motion random?