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It's sad (for deadrats) that any points that he makes are mired in and negated by the incoherent babbling and name-calling in which he drowns us.
That being said...
ingeborgdot, don't let a few posts by someone (whom you should be ignoring anyway) turn you into a douchebag. It would be very charitable and classy of you to do the work for your school. Just make what you can, and don't worry about copy protection. Put a title page with your credits in there, and contact info for people to get additional copies. You won't be "showing him" (an anonymous Internet Tough Guy) by burning the school. they're innocents in this thing.
In the grand scheme of things, 48 hours is nothing. I routinely put in much more than that in any given week for charity or my daughter's school. maybe that's just me, but I get a good feeling knowing that I'm helping someone out who deserves or needs it.
I transferred hundreds of VHS tapes and audio cassettes to disc out of my own pocket just to get the school into the 20th century. It took well over 48 hours to do it (especially putting multiple tapes on single discs with menus).
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Video Restorer
- Jun 2003
- dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
Get paid a set fee up front, whether the school collects 25 orders, or the school (coaches) pay for it themselves. Anything else, such as one by one selling, is a gamble.
I would never get myself into the situation you're in. For a meager $2 profit per disc, assuming 25 discs, 48 hours for $50 profit is pathetic. I can put 48 hours of time to far more useful endeavors (watching tv, mowing the lawn, etc) and get a better return values from it. I'd skip the $50 opportunity, no thanks. That's assuming I was in it for the money. If it's something you believe in, then money does not matter, another thought process entirely.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
To all in general, and deadrats in particular - Mind your language!
/Zilver -
Know I know your name is not deadcats it just sounded better because you seem to be a pussy.
So, because someone asks me to do them a favor, I am supposed to do it. I am supposed to spend 48 hours going over film finding the highlights adding music that fits, putting in things here and there and I should do it for free? I don't think so again. I understand about the copyright. As you noticed I added I knew I could not do it but I just wanted to make sure I could pay for my time. If your time is worth nothing that is fine because it sounds like you are a worthless piece any way. My time is valuable because the time I would spend doing this is late at night and on weekends after my real job. When my friends ask me to do something for them I do it willingly and don't ask for anything. If someone I don't know asks me to do a job for them I sure as heck charge them. Why would I not charge someone for something like this. I just don't get why you don't think I should. You would really spend all that time and not charge.
No, there will be no copy protection. It was just a brain fart on my part. There will be no copyright. Story closed. -
Rodney king famous quote
strongest copy protection from Sony Blu-ray BD+ cracked already.don't waste your time -
where is the "irony"? my two stances are consistent, as a general rule of thumb, i am opposed to blanket copyright claims because they have the consequence of stepping on individual rights; i hate anyone that tries to use copyright to screw their fellow man.Originally Posted by guns1inger
i can accept a limited claim of copyright from professional studios, because they did spend vast amounts of money and resources creating the product, but i don't support their claims of copyright in perpetuity, nor to i believe that their copyright claims trump the individuals rights not to be taken advantage of by big business. -
i apologize, i'll tone it down from now on.Originally Posted by mats.hogberg
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Thank you!
/Mats -
If you have obtained permission to use the video and music in the DVD from the people who own the rights them, with the understanding that you are going to sell the end product, then I don't think it's unfair to receive a little compensation for your time.
For your own protection, I would say that you do need to find out if you have the all the permission you need for the content you've used. If you can't determine that, or document it, then perhaps it is best not to pursue this any further. The likelyhood of being caught and sued may be small, but is the amount of money you will make from this project really worth the risk?
[edit] It's fine to do favors for people, as long as doing them doesn't get you into trouble. The people asking you for these favors are not the ones at risk, you are. -
I do this stuff all the time for my son's team sports. I don't charge anything, but I only do it for our team and no one else. I could charge, but choose not to. The reason is I'm only interested in helping the team improve by providing footage that each player can evaluate to learn from mistakes and so forth. It costs me money, but I feel it's worth it and it certainly makes a lot of friends.
On the other hand, I can certainly understand charging money to do this. If someone did this and charged money, I would buy a copy in a second. The work involved is huge. Anyone that doesn't think so, has no clue or no talent........Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........ -
Like I said earlier this post is over. I have decided to let them pay for it to be done. I don't have the time nor the money to buy all the dvds, holders, ink for dvds and dvd covers for booklets which is what they all want. It would cost me well over $300 just for supplies as I went on figuring how many people wanted them etc. I have already given a multitude of money to charities and the school and just can't afford any more.
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not only should you do it for free, you are legally obligated to do so. why?Originally Posted by ingeborgdot
because as you said you added music to the highlights, music you don't own the rights to, unless you composed it yourself or it's music already in the public domain, such as a mozart composition.
if however you used any music that is not in the public domain, it is copyrighted work, you can use snippets of it for non-commercial use, that falls under "fair use" but you can't use it, without permission and compensation to the copyright holder, in a commercial work, which, since you are being paid for the dvd's that's what they are.
so in effect you were given a recording of a public event, stole some music to add to it, and then wish to claim ownership rights to the final product and not only that also prevent anyone from making "unauthorized copies" of said final product filled with material you don't own.
as i said, a brass set, the sad thing is i have no doubt you really believe you are in the right.
maybe next time you can steal someones car then come here and ask us how to secure it so that no one takes it for a joy ride.
you are some piece of work... -
@OP: Is there any reason to keep this thread open? There's not very much contructive contributions coming your way...
/Mats -
look, i would have no problem if this guy worked out a deal with the school to shoot the footage, and present them with a master dvd full of highlights and just charged them a flat fee, no matter how much that flat fee was, i would encourage him and offer him any help i could.Originally Posted by racer-x
what really frosts my buns (<--i promised to tone down the language) is that this guy is worried about his "48 hours" worth of work and wants to try and squeeze $2 per dvd out of as many people as he can.
he didn't shoot the footage, it wasn't his camera, he stole other people's music with which to make the highlight master dvd and he wishes to try and claim ownership of the final product.
that's like me taking my car into a mechanic, supplying the parts and the mechanic trying to prevent me from driving my car as often as i want because of "all the work he put in it".
think of it a more practical way: you are getting married, you hire a wedding photographer that also shoots a video of the ceremony, the party., the whole nine yards. then when you get the pics and the dvd you find that he has included drm on the dvd of your wedding so that if you want to make copies of the dvd to send to your cousin, you have to go to him so that he can make an extra $2 per dvd you want.
tell me you wouldn't force feed him the dvd? -
If nothing else, this thread is entertaining (but only in a train wreck sort of way).
I don't get how these guys can even be arguing. One guy (supposedly is "done" but keeps coming back to point that out. the other guy is railing against "The Man" through the OP. They seem to both be arguing in circles.
inge, so what if some guy argues with you? Don't let it even ruin your day, much less your charitable manner. If it's about the money, you shouldn't be doing it anyway, since you can't get rich off of a school. be honest and tell them that you can't afford it. Or better yet, tell them that some guy on a message board pissed you off, so now you don't feel like doing it. I can guarantee you that it will prevent them from ever asking you again.
d r, while you have some valid points, arguing with someone whose efforts will be futile is futile in itself. Is it really killing you that someone is making a measly $2 per DVD? The poorest nations in the world probably make that much.
Yes, this thread has run its course. It's not even entertaining anymore. -
I have told them and they understand. I just don't have the time to do it. I need to pay the bills and the time it would take would just take away from that.
The music I use is from free music. -
Video Restorer
- Jun 2003
- dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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Sometimes that's how it goes. Saying "no" is the right thing to do.
Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
I have decided to chime in because this subject is near and dear to me.
I have made over ten sports highlight DVD’s for my sons various teams over the last six years. I have never charged a cent for my work. Not because I don’t think I deserve to make money on them. I spend hundreds of hours shooting the raw footage, picking music, making titles and credits and packaging. I get many complements on my work. The real reason I do not charge is because I want the kids, including my son to have it as a memory. If I did not use the pressure of the year end party to motivate me it would likely end up on the back burner with other projects like building my work shed.
At the start of each season, I will always hear at least one former teammate tell the other players when they see me filming that hopefully I will make them a DVD and how much they love the one they had gotten in the past.
At the end of the season I will try to reach the parents of the players that could not make it to the team party to let them know I made a copy for their child. Many parents can’t be bothered to drive a few miles to it pick even though it is free. This has occurred almost every season.
With that said, here is my observation for ingeborgdot:
1. Who are you really punishing by not making the DVD? Certainty not deadrats. He could care less if you make the dang thing or not. Why are you punishing the kids because you got into an “Internet” argument with someone? It sounds like the parents were willing to pay you, so why punish them. I just don’t get it.
2. In one of your post you use the term “our high school football team”. That would imply that you have some association with the team and/or players. If that is so, then my advice would be not to charge at all. Not because you don’t deserve to get paid for your work because you do. The reason that I am saying not to charge is because you will never earn even a fraction of what you put into it by trying to sell it. If you do it for free it is your gift to the players. If you charge even just to recoup your costs it takes that away from you.
I am not trying to start a fight or tell anyone they are wrong. That is just my two cents. -
You did it because your kid played. I am not punishing the kids. They are getting the dvd made. They are just paying 19.99 for it, that's all. I just don't have the time to do it. I need to be doing other things to make money. As for our football team, when you live in a town it is your football team. It still does not mean I do it for free. I will let someone else make it for free. So far no one has volunteered.
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Ingeborgdot,
You are correct that my son was a big motivating factor in making the DVD but it has nothing to do with not charging the other players.
I doubt that anyone will volunteer to do it for free and I also wonder if many of the parents will pay someone $19.99 to get it done. I am sure that the person doing it for $19.99 will have a minimum order. My guess is at least 25 copies or more.
By the way, I think you are well within your right to charge for your time to edit the footage and put out a finished copy. IMHO, you are charging for the work you did in editing, not for making the raw footage that someone else took available as some others seems to think. If someone wanted just the raw footage I am sure they could get a copy of it.
If no one else steps up (and I think they will not) I hope you reconsider doing it and possible using some of the advice given here such as get a reasonable amount up front. Most of the parents that paid will be honest enough not to make a copy and if one or two free ones get out so what. -
Yeah, you are probably right. Maybe I will reconsider. I do really need to look at my time schedule though. I guess to some on here 48 hours is not much but to me 48 hours is a long time. That is time away from my wife, time away from odd jobs to pay for my toys, time away from actually enjoying life. If I do it though I want it to be a first class job with some cool things that the kids can really enjoy. I don't like to do things half way.
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Video Restorer
- Jun 2003
- dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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Your kid is a kid. He probably does not care that you've got a video of it -- not yet. You can let it sit there for years, and it'll be fine. It's shot, that's all that matters. He'll care more in college, when he meets his first wife, has his own kids, etc. But not now.
Don't buy into the "it's for the children" routine. You're a caring parent, take care of your son. If the other parents suck, don't worry about being the parent to those kids, they won't care anyway. It's very likely your DVD will end up on the floor and stepped on, in the home of those ingrates. Why waste effort on that?
They buy other completely useless shit on a daily basis, I'd bet, so $20 for a season-end DVD should be a freaking bargain.
In the end, spend time with your kid now, when he's a kid. Leave the video editing projects for those times when he's off to college, and you're home alone. His memories with his dad will be more important than a DVD. If you do find free time here and there, sure, go for it, make a DVD. But to it to your schedule, not other parents.
This attitude that everything should be free is bullshit. If the other parents and kids have it, then screw 'em, they don't deserve your thoughtful product.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
Ah, more posts on the thread that won't die -- and so, I'll chime in. This issue plagued videographers in the VHS days, too. There will always be someone who will find a way to copy your work. It just goes with the territory.
You were already advised to take pre-orders before you hand out discs. That's the best solution to the situation.
For the future, you can ask the school or football team to establish a little (reasonable) budget to cover your labor for similar projects. Learn to ask; learn to negotiate. Institutions always have money somewhere. This can open the door for other school or community related projects.
You have an opportunity here, if you can recognize it. Just don't blow it by trying to squeeze every nickel and dime out of people. There will be a few unauthorized copies made. But you can still profit from this and plant seeds for future enterprises.
Have fun! -
So for preorders should I charge them first or wait until it is completed and charge when delivery is made?
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There are sometimes school kids who come to my door selling chocolate bars to raise money for things like sports or band uniforms, scouting trips, whatever. If I commit, I sign their clipboard sheet, giving my address and phone number. Whenever I prepay, they write "Paid" beside my name. When I don't prepay, they still have my signature and will collect upon delivery of the items.
You can do something like that. It will never be an absolutely perfect process, as there might be one or two people who won't come through on their commitment. Nevertheless, you will make money on the deal, and if your product is good quality, you will be asked to do more in the future. (Can you see the big picture?)
You're going to have to learn to live with the fact that nothing is perfect in this world, but things can still be great. In fact, "perfect" is the enemy of "great," because absolute perfection often becomes so daunting that it makes people miserable and want to give up.
Like I said before: have fun! Stop worrying. See what money you can make from this. In the end, if it turns out not being worth the trouble, then don't do it again. You will have learned something in the process anyway. -
I would ask for the money when they place the order, but give them the option to pay on delivery if they don't have it on them. It's really not likely that those placing orders will stiff you if they don't have the money on hand, and they'll know what to expect when the time comes. You'll probably get enough pre-paid to help finance the materials and minimize your out-of-pocket expenses.
"Shut up Wesley!" -- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Buy My Books -
I would charge $15-20 and have them pay it up front like the two posters above me said.As a selling point I would tell them some of the money will go towards the football program,whether you give 25% or all profit over $350 is up to you.
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Lordsmurf,
I disagree with your assertion that the kids don’t care. My son is fourteen now and has been helping me with the videos since he was around eight. After each game the first thing he wants to do when we get home is watch the tape. He helps me with picking the highlights that we will use and well as song selection. He does get bored with some of the more tedious things like blending in the original sound with the music so I do that myself. I never get the feeling that he could care less, if I did I would stop doing it.
As far as the others kids I am sure that you are correct that some of the kids like the parents don’t give a crap about my little DVD and some may even do the “Mexican Hat Dance” on it as soon as they get home. I don’t care about them. The kids I do care about are the ones that I know watch and love the video.
I had one player tell me how he loved when he hit his big three pointer then I held on a poster in the background with the words “Perfect” on it. A second kid told me he thought it was “Cool” that I switch part of the song I used around so the video ended with the beginning of a certain song. I had one kid play the DVD on his TV, video tape it and put in up on his myspace because he did not know of any other way of doing it. I have had parents tell me they cried after watching it and others send me cards and small gifts.
I guess what I am trying to say (in my long winded way) is, I don’t care if 80% of the team throws away my DVD as long as 20% love it. -
Video Restorer
- Jun 2003
- dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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I'm very active with sports, from little leagues to college. On average, be it photo or video, 90% of the players don't care. About 80% of the parents don't care. Of those that care, 50% are interested only during a game, when you clearly have no product (you're still shooting!), and you never see them again. The remaining few come to you after the season is over.
Sometimes their kid is not very good, so he wasn't in any photos or videos, that happens too. Of all the things that happen, I hate that one the most.
I'm glad your kid cares, but he's a slim minority.
If you have a lot of time to waste on this, great, enjoy your hobby. But ingeborgdot does not, he has bills to pay and it takes priority over freebie/fun time. I can fully relate to him. Our economy blows, some of us are heavily affected, and we have to live in the reality of our situation.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
no, charging them first would be tacky; sit down and work out a price, say $5 per dvd, one for every player on the team, coaches, staff, ect, whatever that works out to, give them a price quote, and when you do inform them that the work will be COD, i.e. the day you deliver the finished product you expect a check in the agreed upon amount.Originally Posted by ingeborgdot
that's pretty much it, just make sure that whoever you work out the deal with has the authority to hire you so that you will be paid.
and that's pretty much it.
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