Copy Protection from a DVD recorder?

[tonyaldr]

I bought a JVC DRMV100B dual deck and found something odd - I'm unable to export video from recorded DVD-RAM discs to my computer. I taped the show "60 minutes" last week and wanted to save the show on my hard drive, but the program I use (DVD-MovieAlbumSE) aborts part of the way through saying "This program is copy protected. Aborting export." What the heck??? I never had this problem with my old Panasonic! Anyone else see this?

[jagabo]

LOL! It's right in the model number: DRMV100B.

[usually_quiet]

If DVD-MovieAlbumSE, won't work, you could try MPEG StreamClip. It's freeware written by software developers outside the US, so it may ignore the copy flag. It will be more difficult to use, and may take more time to copy the video, but I have used it to save programs from DVD-RAM as .mpg files. CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media) is not that new. The owner's manual for my three-year-old Panasonic recorder mentions it. It just hasn't been used all that often, except for premium content like Showtime and HBO original programming.

So, did the parts department at Panasonic have a CD with DVD-MovieAlbumSE in stock, or did you find it some other way, just in case somebody else asks about it?

[lordsmurf]

That's a software error.

[usually_quiet]

Based on bug reports, or suspicions about any product sold by Panasonic? (We all know how lordsmurf feels about Panasonic.)

Conceivably, it could be a problem with the JVC recorder, or a problem with the 60-Minutes broadcast. (Based on some user reviews I have seen, that particular model may have a problem with false detection of copy protection in TV broadcasts, and some cable systems have reportedly screwed up and inserted a copy protection flag where it doesn't belong.)

CPRM includes a "write-once/copy once" provision, where programs protected in that way can only be recorded onto DVD-RAM by some recorders, including mine, though I have never experienced it. DVD-MovieAlbumSE may have been designed to detect that form of copy protection, since Panasonic decided to comply with it.

[jagabo]

Just about all current consumer A/V hardware includes the ability to respond to CPRM. All the broadcasters have the ability to set the CPRM flag (but normally don't, just an occasional "mistake"). All carriers (cable, sat) pass along the CPRM flag. Every year Hollywood lobbies to have it switched on and mandatory.

[lordsmurf]

DVD-MovieAlbumSE is being stupid.

[usually_quiet]

I'd like to know if the OP has tried to copy other programs from a DVD-RAM recorded by his JVC, or if this is the first time he has tried it?

If it routinely happens with recordings made on DVD-RAM, but DVD-R disks work fine for recording, then the JVC is the source of the problem. (If CPRM is activated, the DVD recorder will not record to DVD+/-R media.)

DVD-MovieAlbumSE does indeed look for CPRM, according to http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=14335.

The software may be checking for something specific that the recorder handles incorrectly.

[jagabo]

If CPRM is activated, the DVD recorder will not record to DVD+/-R media.

CPRM has "copy freely", "copy once", and "no copy" flags. If it is broadcast as "copy once" the recorder will record it and mark it as "no copy" so it can't be copied off the media.

But I think Smurf is right, the problem isn't CPRM, DVD-MovieAlbumSE is simply having a problem and giving a bogus error message.

[RabidDog]

You should just be able to use dvdshrink or mpeg editing software to move the program to your hard disk. This message (obviously) should come up at the start of the recording or not at all. I have a dvd recorder where sometimes cause copyright messages to appear in some software. Your software does not appear in many "Best of " list's 8)
*hint get better software, try tmpgenc dvd editor (other editing softwares do exist)

[usually_quiet]

If the flag is set to "copy once", the media has to be CPRM certified, and VR mode has to be used, or the the program won't record. Usually that means DVD-RAM, but others have reported that this recorder permits other CPRM certified rewritable media to be used, if it is formatted in VR mode. Tayo Yuden DVD-R media is supposed to be CPRM certified too, but not many others, so that's why I suggested write-once media as a test.

I have done more reading on this subject. At the AVS Forums, I read one post by by a member reporting that his JVC DRMV100B stopped recording when it detected CPRM in commercials. I have read one or two similar reports here too, from people using other recorders. It appears that CPRM is causing more and more problems with time-shifting.

[tonyaldr]

Thanx for all your answers. I've tried twice to export from the JVC recorded DVD-RAM with the same result. The Panasonic recorded discs have no issue. As for the MovieAlbumSe software, Panasonic took my order a few months back, but I haven't heard anything. Don't expect I will.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for providing the answers I requested. Too bad the Panasonic order did not work out.

CPRM is used in Japan more often than in the US. Since TDA is produced by a Japanese software company, it may have problems with those discs too. However, TDA has a free trial, so you have nothing to loose but your time. Otherwise, it is a great product and well worth a test-drive.

At least you know you are not the only one experiencing problems with CPRM.

[Bix]

When I had a Panasonic recorder and used DVD-RAM, I was able to copy the folder to my hard drive in Windows w/o extra software and then imported it using TDA.

[usually_quiet]

If they haven't already done so, people following this thread may want to look at this one too https://forum.videohelp.com/topic358799.html

[jagabo]

For those of you wondering why older DVD recorders don't have this problem:

The FCC originally mandated that recorders sold after July 2005 would have to respond to the Broadcast Flag:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/120654/tv_limits_copies.html

That rule was overturned on the grounds that the FCC had no jurisdiction over equipment manufacturers:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/120748/fccs_broadcast_flag_overturned.html

Unfortunately, by the time the rule was vacated all the manufacturers had already designed the feature into their products. So DVD recorders built much before July 2005 don't respond to the broadcast flag. Those built much after usually do.

[usually_quiet]

CPRM is owned by the 4C Entity, which is made up of Intel, IBM, Matsushita and Toshiba. CPRM is also used in Japan, so the US having a requirement for it at one time is not the whole story. My Panasonic DVD recorder was built in February 2005, and has CPRM. Any DVD recorder or DVD burner capable of using DVD-RAM disks is likely to have it too, because it's part of the standard for the media.

I suppose the only reason I haven't run afoul of it is that I have been recording this season's CBS shows on DVD-RAM when I time-shift, and erase them once I am done watching them. I may try recording 60 Minutes tonight on DVD-RW to see what happens.