No booting on a 4 year old emachine

[yoda313]

Hello,

I have a 4 year old emachine running windows xp. I have not had any real problems with it until recently. The other day on startup the fan was wirring as it normally does but it kept wirring and xp wasn't loading. So I shut off the power manually and tried again a few times. Once I left it on a while longer and it gave me a boot list choice - my dvd drives or the master harddrive so I selected the harddrive and xp loaded.

Please note after the initial no boot I had opened the computer and blown some dust out and whatnot.

Just this morning I am getting the same symptoms but I don't have the boot selection option yet. I did open the case again and the ide cables seem to be firmly in place for both my master harddrive and secondary drive.

I had a thought - would the battery need to be replaced? What is the life expactancy of a watch battery in a computer setting? I would gladly replace it as it is the original that came with the pc.

Opinions are welcome.

I do have an old 2006 live cd of kanotix that did work once on the pc. I think I might try that later to make sure everything else is ok. Would I be able to install that on the secondary drive for a temporary os?

Also what is the bios key for an emachine? Is it f5 or f10? Also I do see the command prompt lines for the graphics card and the giant E logo pops up and that is where the pc hangs (or at least does not progress anymore - please note there are no beeps just a fan noise and no os loads).

Thanks.

EDIT - Well I have a new issue. It appears it won't boot from either dvd drive now. That is a concern. I had even found my original official emachine restore dvd and that did not respond.

Could this be a dying harddrive? The OS is on the original 80gb harddrive. I do have a secondary 160gb harddrive in the machine that is newer so I would not have to go through too much to set up a new drive. I don't think i have anything vital on the secondary drive.

Could I set up the secondary drive as master and then see if it boots? It doesn't have an os but at least it should boot up saying "need os" or something.......

This is curious......

EDIT2 - Here is from about.com on entereing bios on a emachine:

eMachines - eMonster, eTower, eOne, S-Series, T-Series

* Press Tab or Del while the eMachine logo displays on screen.
* Other eMachine computers may use F2 to enter BIOS.


I'll try one of these and let you know - mine is a t2893 desktop tower.

EDIT 3 - I have not had any luck getting into the bios. The keyboard does light up on intial startup but doesn't stay lit up.

I think I might go to the library and pickup a xp repair book. I do have norton save and restore backed up on a usb drive but I don't have a boot disc for that particular pc. Also it won't boot from a disc right now anyway.

The pc hangs on the giant E logo by the way......

EDIT 4 - I forgot to mention I did unscrew and rescrew the cpu fan prior to this latest issue (it had worked AFTER unscrewing and rescrewing however so I don't believe that is a factor). Though I thought I'd mention it anyway.

[joecass]

It's possible that the CMOS battery died..... they're usually good for at least 5 years or more..... CR2032..... u can get one at Radio Shack or any electronics/computer store...... I would try changing the battery and getting into the BIOS screen..... then click "Setup Defaults" to reset the BIOS to original specs
If you don't get any "beep" at all on boot-up, the computer is not getting
past POST (power on self test)..... that usually means something is wrong
with the BIOS, the memory or the video card
If you were previously able to get into Win XP, doubtful it's a hard drive problem, there would be some error message on start up...... but, one way to check is to disconnect the primary hard drive entirely, install the secondary hard drive as a primary (with no operating system), you should get an error message - no operating system found, etc.
It's possible the BIOS got corrupted somehow, weak battery, something went wrong that started the problem....
Theoretically, you should be able re-install the O.S. using the restore CD.
It's also possible that something in Win XP got corrupted, in which case you'd have to boot into Safe mode and use the Recovery Console.
A few years ago a friend of mine had similar problems with an EMachines
computer, I had to change both the power supply and hard drive...
Lastly, if you have two hard drives and two DVD drives, it's possible you aren't getting adequate voltage to the system or the system is being overtaxed. I've had two secondary hard drives die on me the last few years that worked perfectly as primary drives...... because the o.s. kept spinning the drives on and off repeatedly

[yoda313]

Thanks joecass.

I've been reading online and it seems that emachines have a history of boot errors.

I'll try the harddrives and cd drives. I have a pioneer 100 something dvd drive in it and a no name 4x burner. I could try unplugging the 4x since I don't really use it anymore. I could also do as you suggested and unplug the master drive and switch the backup to master and see what happens.

I think I will definitely buy a new battery. It might be on the edge of its usefulness.

[lordsmurf]

I've got a POST problem on a motherboard too right now. I have no cards or drives attached to it. Battery is not likely, but I'll try it anyway. The PSU is known good. RAM and CPU are unknowns, however.

[redwudz]

The CMOS battery just keeps the date clock running and preserves your modified BIOS settings. If it dies, you just have the wrong date and the BIOS is reset to the default settings. So that is not likely your problem.

E-Machines have a bad history of failing power supplies, so if you have a spare PS, you might try that. Hopefully, it's a standard size PS.

I would do similar as lordsmurf and unplug all drives except boot and all cards except the video card. If it's a weak PS, that might get it to boot, and make a weak PS a more likely candidate for replacement. Also unplug and re-seat all connectors and cards, including RAM. Sometimes the connector is just loose.

lordsmurf, a RAM substitution would be the next thing to try, then the video card, if you have a spare. Assuming the PS is OK, that leaves the CPU and the motherboard.

I should mention, if a PS dies violently, it may take the MB and everything else with it. A good reason not to use cheap PSs.

[yoda313]

I do have a question about the psu. I had recently bought a 650 watt psu for my vista pc and saved the original 300 watt.

However the first vista psu does not seem to be compatible with the emachine. THe emachine doesn't have enough plugs for the power jack. It's a beastec 250 model on the emachine from 4 years ago.

Do they still make that type?

[Nelson37]

Most newer PSU have a seperate piece on the connector which can be removed to fit the older power receptacle on older motherboards. You can still also get older PSU, but questionable if the box is that old.

Many E-Machine PSU and Motherboards die. Many, Many.

Start by disconnect ALL drives, Data and Power, including data cables from the motherboard. Press TAB on the logo screen, and verify you can enter the BIOS. If you can't get into the BIOS, try another keyboard first, but its probably new board time.

A note on the complete disconnection of ALL cables. Sometimes the simple act of Removing and Replacing the data and power cables has a cleaning effect on the contacts and can often solve some oddball problems. Replacing the data cable is so cheap as to be well worth doing.


If you can enter BIOS, then just connect ONE optical drive, with a new data cable, after changing jumpers, and boot from a boot CD. Try both drives and more than one boot CD, hopefully verify drive and disk on another PC.


If that works, disconnect opticals again and try the hard drive.

Good odds it's a bad board or power supply. Would spend only a bare minimum of time or money on a 4-year old E-machine, have 3 dead boards from similar units right now.

[yoda313]

Thanks nelson37.

Well its back on right now. I'm not sure what it was that I fixed.

I unplugged the older of the two dvd burners. I also unplugged the newer 160gb harddrive. The 80gb is the os drive. I also removed a dial up modem that I should have ditched a while ago that was just taking up space.

I am not sure but it looked like my ram was not clicked in place solidly. I reseated it in the slot next to it. I don't know 100% but that might have been it.

But as I said it was working with everything plugged in yesterday so I'm not sure.

I do want my 160gb secondary drive but I don't need my secondary dvd drive as I have two in my vista pc so I can do dubbing that way (without making an iso first if I needed to).

I think what I'll do is while the computer is running I'll try to see if I can make a boot disc with norton save and restore for the emachine pc (norton 2.0).

Thanks for all your help. For now its working and I'm not sure what it was.

I think I may go and buy a new battery anyway just to keep that from becoming an issue.

[redwudz]

Those batteries last about 5 years, sometimes longer. I've seen them for sale at Longs Drugs and other large chain stores, so easy to find. Be aware that you will have to redo any special BIOS settings you may have had, as they will be lost, along with the date and time. I usually write the important ones down, then it's easier to get back all the setup.

And you still may have a weak PS, but you would have to plug those drives back in to add more load to double check that. Or burn a CD and that may be enough.

[yoda313]

Well I'm back to the same issues. I was on for a little bit and actually had a stable wireless internet connection which was suprising.

I wasn't able to make a restore cd with nortonn save and restore - apparently the dvd drive was visible but not accessible.

I used it a little bit longer and then rebooted. Unfortunately it went back to the same problem as before - hanging on the E logo.

I do see on my removed hp psu (also a beastec but a little more powerful) the removal lines. On the one side of the power cable connector point there are three vertical lines. A one, then a two, then a three. I assume these are the ones you remove so that the remainder of the power connector fits the unit??

So were I to switch the power supply I would just remove one or all of the three prongs until it matches the existing power unit cable?

Thanks everyone....

[Nelson37]

No, on the Motherboard power connector from the power supply there should be two seperate pieces of plastic that link together to make one plug. For the older motherboard, you just use the main section, without the extra piece. Not a matter of removing individual wires or prongs.

[yoda313]

Thanks nelson37. I'll take another look at it before swapping.

EDIT - here is a picture of the existing power supply connector prong:



Here is the plug I wish to replace it with:

[aedipuss]

check the old 20 for a white wire. if it has it you need an old style atx1.0 ps. no white wire 20 is an atx1.3 the 24 pin is atx2.0, if it's a replacement type ps there should be 4 pins that snap on the end of a 20pin connector. if it's an oem ps then there might not be 4 removable pins.

[wingnut2003]

you can buy a 24 to 20 pin adapter plug, then you can use the power supply with your machine. here is link on what is looks like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2261658&cp=&sr=1&kw=24+to+20+pin...entPage=search hope this helps.

[yoda313]

Thanks aedipuss and wingnut.

I'll take a look at the old power supply tommorow and let you know.

FYI the powersupply currently inside the emachine is the original unit. ANd the one I am looking to replace it with is a salvaged stock unit from my year old vista hp machine. (salvaged as in replaced with a twice as powerful psu - the stock vista hp psu was still in perfect working order ).

[lordsmurf]

lordsmurf, a RAM substitution would be the next thing to try, then the video card, if you have a spare. Assuming the PS is OK, that leaves the CPU and the motherboard.
I should mention, if a PS dies violently, it may take the MB and everything else with it. A good reason not to use cheap PSs.

I have to pull RAM from a second system to try, but I doubt that's it.
Down to CPU and motherboard.

What I need is either
(A) Socket 478 Intel CPU
(B) AMD Athlon CPU

What I've been doing is seeing if anybody would donate their "junk" to me (unused, obsolete but functional parts), in the hopes that I could build some test systems for various things. CPU seems to be the thing hurting me on both potential test systems, can't find one from somebody.

[redwudz]

Tried Ebay or Craigslist? I've been lucky enough to trade my old systems off to others for a low price, so most are still running... Somewhere.

You can also pick up some decent systems at yard sales when people clean out their garages.

EDIT: yoda313, you might look to this site for more info on power supply connections: http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

[budz]

LS: geeks.com have cheap 478 cpu's.
http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=271

yoda313: I've had 2 friends with emachine's that the mobo's & psu die. Hopefully the extra ps you have will fix your problem.

[yoda313]

@redwudz and budz - thanks.

I was reading online yesterday about people complaining that their emachines croaked after 2 years. If that is relatively common it looks like I got a better than average emachine to last 4 years.

Of course I replaced a lot of components but not the mobo or psu yet.

[TBoneit]

Sorry to say

What is typical for a e-machine is for the Motherboard and usually the power supply to go at the same time.

[CogoSWSDS]

My kids' computer is a 5-year old emachine. A couple years ago the thing stopped booting. I had an old system that was toast but with a 400watt power supply. Had to drill a couple small holes in the power supply to line up with the holes for the screws on the emachine case. Been running fine since. It is quite likely the power supply.

CogoSWSDS

[yoda313]

Well good news for now. I went to one of the few remaining computer parts store in the area (not a best buy or box store). They had the 24 to 20 pin converter for just 8.00. I was able to install the reclaimed power supply and so far seems to be going strong.

This is a 300 watt bestec from my vista pc that I had recently upgraded. The existing power supply that I replaced was 250 watt.

Hopefully this will keep it ticking.

Thanks for all the tips and advice.

FYI The radio shack link was for a web only order and I didn't want to wait for it to ship so I went to the local source.

[budz]

Good to hear you got the ps converter locally! Go emachine go!

[yoda313]

Good to hear you got the ps converter locally! Go emachine go!

Thanks budz.

Hopefully this will be the lasting fix it needs. I'd like to hang on to it for a few more years. It is nice to have a secondary pc even if I really only use if for surfing. My vista pc has become my primary pc more or less. Having a dual core in it makes it much more productive

[yoda313]

BUMP!

Well here it goes again. I was able to get three or four days of trouble free computing out of the psu switch. Unfortunately it's back to the hanging on the e logo.

Should I try something drastic like unplugging the boot drive and flipping the secondary drive to master and try installing linux on it?

Would I then be able to reattach the os boot drive as a slave and leave it so I can access the files?

Another question - does a linux live cd allow you to install the os from the live cd or do you need to download a seperate package for a full install?

----

One other thing - could this be a sign of drive failure? The 80gb OS drive is the original that came with the pc. Since I have eliminated the psu as a possible cause and the reoccurance of that should I look at the harddrive?

EDIT 1 - ok I am downloading KANOTIX Thorhammer RC7 2007 iso right now from kantoix.com. That is the only type of linux I have been exposed to so I thought I'd start there. I have Kanotix 2006 Easter release on cd and have used a handful of times.

If you have other more recent linux distros you want to recommend for a recovery operation like this please let me know.

Also obvious question here - doing a full install on the secondary drive would completely erase it correct? Or does it install like an ordinary program leaving files intact? I don't have anything dire on there - I do have some zune downloads but I can redownload them later. There isn't anything else vital on that secondary drive so I can lose it if I need to.

Also I will check into norton save and restore 2.0 to see how I would go about restoring the os drive onto the secondary drive from my usb drive. That might be may safest way to go if I'm gonna blow the second drive clean anyway... (fyi the secondary drive is about a year newer than the original - maxtor I think if I remember right - a 160gb capacity - the original OS drive was only 80gb).

[budz]

Have you tested the hard drive the one with the os on it? If you haven't my suggestion is to test it with the seagate tools. I say seagate because they bought out maxtor.

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools/

[studur]

Hi,

socket 478 pentium 4 motherboards were an error in the history of PC. I got several and everyone but one died. My asus mobo survived but i went through 3 power supplies in 5 years, until I bought an OCZ 650 watts @ 100$. I think that the cheap psu do not survive well the extreme temperature dissipated by pentium 4 CPU's.*Also, I copied a lot of DVD on the fly, from one DVD drive to another one and it drove a lot of power from the PSU. It is better to use a psu that cover 75 % of your total needed power than one that runs @ 100% all the time. The heat generated by these 478 socket mobo is very bad for most computer parts (psu, ram and mobo). I would suggest to bring it to a PC store where they could simply check with their own psu. It takes 5 minutes and it will cost probably 5$ for the time. But in the end, it could save you a lot of time diagnosing the problem yourself. Especially if there is no beep codes when you boot to tell you what is the real problem. But I would be tempted to say that you fried the psu and/or the mobo.

EDIT : Sorry I just read that you already found out the problem. Glad to hear that it was indeed the psu. Good luck.

[yoda313]

@budz - that is another option thanks...

@studur - yep I swapped psu's so that is already taken out of the picture.

UPDATE:

Well I disconnected the OS drive and setup my secondary as the master without an OS on it. Upon startup I got the message ERROR ON OS LOADING or something like that. So I popped in the EMACHINE RESTORE DVD and rebooted. It worked just fine. I decided to a clean restore and blew away the secondary drive. So for now I'm doing ok and I'm typing on it right now.

I'm gonna have to take down the sp3 updates after all since I'm kinda naked on this pc as far as updates are concerned. I only have the initial SP2 that was installed on the pc in the first place. So I'll have to go through that.

Right now I only have three devices connected aside from the mobo - the main dvd burner, the main 160gb drive, and my nvidia 256 pci graphics card.

QUESTION:

How many times can you run the restore discs that ship with the pc? I mean as long as the mobo holds out and I'm testing harddrives and stuff can I do the restore more than once? This is my first time using the restore dvd. Also please note I've left the original OS drive in the bay but disconnected. Everything is intact so I should be able to do something with it.

Thanks for all of your help.

[Number Six]

There should be no limit to the amount of times that you can restore the system on the original machine

[yoda313]

There should be no limit to the amount of times that you can restore the system on the original machine

Thanks number six that is good to hear.

I have reconnected the original drive as the slave drive. I am doing some file transfers now.

I'll take a look at some drive testing tools too.