Somewhat complex DVD construction for dummies - Pt.1(questions, not guide)

[Gonz0ne]

Hi, I'm very new to all of this, and I've got a couple of projects I've been wanting to do. I'm artistic by nature and I've got a bunch of ideas and want to try all kinds of things, but I've been reading a bunch of guides and posts here, and sweet Jeebus, all the complex tech jargon and concepts makes my head hurt(I think I demuxed my brain, and I don't know what that means, but I don't think it's good ). I have searched and read a BUNCH of stuff here(what a fantastic resource!), but after reading a bunch of this info I think I have learned a few key things, but have twice as many questions as answers, and am very, very confused about how a lot of these things work, or work together. So please help me figure this out, and break it down into simple concepts for me. I have a bunch of projects that I've been wanting to do, but getting started has a huge learning curve, so I'll stick to one project per thread. So for the first one, err, first half of the first one...

I've got a vid split into two large(about CD size) AVI files that I want to combine, encode, and burn to DVD. I also want to add an autoplay intro(or two) , and create a fairly elaborate and complicated static(?) menu . I'm going for quality, but need to use freeware. The only exceptions to that being TMPGEnc DVD Author 3(and Photoshop), which I have, though I haven't really learned much about exactly what TMPGEnc does or how to use it yet. So my questions at this point are:

-From what I've read it sounds like FAVC(which I have) is superior to TMPGEnc at encoding. So if I'm determined to do this the best(hardest) way, I'm thinking that first(?) I need to encode the AVI files. Do I need to join the avi files with some other app before I encode them, or can FAVC join AND encode them?

-I ripped some very small clips(specifically the standard FBI warning, followed by the great Tyler Durden's follow-up warning) with DVD Shrink (Video_TS folders)that I want to insert to autoplay consecutively before the menu loads(can TMPGEnc arrange those clips to do that? Is that part of the authoring process?).

- It would be extra cool if I could add audio from some mp3's I have to those clips. I'm thinking I can probably add the mp3 audio to these clips in VDUB?(which I have very limited experience with), or would it be easier/more practical to do this with TMPGEnc, or something else? I think I have some audio editing software, so I could trim the exact part of the mp3 I want to use with the clips, but I need advice on how to then join it to the video clips.

-Those clips are currently VOB files, so Would I need to convert(demux?) them before I add the mp3 audio? Is there any freeware that can add new audio to the VOBs, or would it be simpler to convert them first?

-Also, I'm(clearly) confused on the details and order of the authoring process, do I need to have the menu completed and intro clips edited/added and everything put together when I encode the 2 main videos, or can I encode/join them(with FAVC?), and then add the intro/preview clips and menu later with an authoring app like TMPGEnc?

I have a bunch of questions about menu creation too, but I don't want to pack too many questions into one thread(probably too late for that), so I'll post my menu questions seperately. Constructive, instructive replies would be very much appreciated. Let me know if I'm leaving out any crucial information.

My OS is WinXP, and the vid edit/author/burn programs I currently have are:
DVD Shrink
G Spot
FAVC
TMPGEnc DVD Author 3
VirtualDub
Windows Movie Maker
DVD Decrypter
IMG Burn
AVIsynth

PS - I've looked at the tools section, but I still don't understand what the real difference between TMPGEnc DVD Author & Xpress are. could anyone clarify this for me?

[Gonz0ne]

PPS - I know I'm asking a LOT of questions here that have fairly long and complicated answers(which is why I'm so confused!) You don't have to give me all the answers at once, I can only work on one at a time anyways(for all I know). But please keep in mind all of the goals I have for this project and don't give me a solution for one issue that conflicts with another one(I don't know if that made any more sense than the rest of my ramblings, but basicly I'm saying: don't be intimidated by my huge heap of questions, take it one piece at a time).

I'm also not sure if I've posted these in the right forum, as they could be posted in the authoring forum; but I'm asking such total newb questions that this seemed more appropriate. But if they need be moved, that's cool too.

[redwudz]

Demux= Separate the audio from the video.

TMPGEnc Author 3 is mostly a authoring program and I believe it can also encode. It can create the DVD structure. See 'WHAT IS' DVD to the upper left on this page for info on the structure, format and specifications. To convert from AVI to MPEG for a DVD, you need a encoding program. HC is one freeware one that FAVC can also use.

Most likely for what you want to do in the authoring stage, you may need something other than TMPGEnc DVD Author (TDA). GUI for dvdauthor is freeware and may be a better choice.

FAVC is a All-in-One DVD converter. A good program, but not a great choice for more complex authoring like you seem to have in mind.

Most times, I encode the two AVI parts separately and let the authoring program join them. Less chance of sync problems that way.

MP3 audio won't work with a DVD, so you may want to convert that to a DVD compliant audio format before trying to author.

If you want to add audio to the VOBs, I usually demux them to MPEG, then mux the correct format audio back with the clips.

You might want to read some in our F.A.Q section, also to the left. And depending on what programs you have available, our 'HOW TO' guides that apply to those specific programs. In 'Tools', most programs have guides listed at the bottom of the tool page.

I can tell you your plans are a bit ambitious for a starting project.

[Gonz0ne]

Demux= Separate the audio from the video.

Ok, so maybe my brain is just all muxed-up, but trying to figure all this out isn't helping. Thank you for the thorough, informative response. As I feared, I clearly have a LOT of research to do. I will continue to study the process of DVD authoring, and I really appreciate the tips on places to start. I have a few questions at this point about a few of your responses:

Most likely for what you want to do in the authoring stage, you may need something other than TMPGEnc DVD Author (TDA). GUI for dvdauthor is freeware and may be a better choice.

-I know I need to study the details of each program further, but I'm curious why you think GUI for DVDauthor would be more suitable to this project than TDA?

FAVC is a All-in-One DVD converter. A good program, but not a great choice for more complex authoring like you seem to have in mind.

-I clearly did not understand exactly what FAVC was. I got the impression that it would be the optimal encoding tool primarily from this post https://forum.videohelp.com/topic355787.html from Guns1inger(who seems to have a good understanding of the tools and processes involved), who said:

FAVC is my favourite - free, high quality encoder, simple to use but with powerful extra features. Only very simple menus though (not a concern for me as I don't use FAVC for menus)

In retrospect I realize that this is in response to someone looking for authoring software, but it gave me the impression that FAVC could be used to encode the video, and then another app could be used to create menu's & author the DVD. I would appreciate a little(further) clarification for my confusion.

Most times, I encode the two AVI parts separately and let the authoring program join them. Less chance of sync problems that way.

-OK, thanks for the tip. But if this is the case, again I'm wondering why I couldn't encode the video with FAVC and then use TDA or GUI for DVD Author to assemble all the(encoded) pieces? I know FAVC uses HCEnc or QuEnc to encode. So now I'm wondering if FAVC is necessary(or optimal) for HCEnc or QuEnc encoding, or if they can be used without it? I'm not even sure if HCEnc & QuEnc are encoding programs, or simply formats? I checked the glossary but didn't see anything about that.
[edit]-After posting I noticed that the mentions of HCEnc & QuEnc were automaitcally turned into links to those apps, which answers that question(app or format). So I guess my question now is if FAVC encodes with HCEnc & QuEnc better than those apps by themselves?

MP3 audio won't work with a DVD, so you may want to convert that to a DVD compliant audio format before trying to author.

-OK, I can do that(yay, more conversion processes to learn!), but again this newb could use a tip. When you say I need to convert the mp3 audio to a DVD compliant audio format, would that mean .WAV, or something more complex(AC3?)?

If you want to add audio to the VOBs, I usually demux them to MPEG, then mux the correct format audio back with the clips.

-Do you(or anybody ele) know if it's possible/practical to add audio to the VOB without demuxing(I'm trying to avoid any unnecessary processes as this project is going to be complicated enough as it is), or would that be more complicated than demuxing(for someone who has never done that) and adding the audio?

I can tell you your plans are a bit ambitious for a starting project.

Yes, that is the ONE thing I did know going into this. Apparently I'm a closet masochist , and I seem to be subconsciously determined to make everything MUCH harder than it should/could be. The upside is that if I don't burn-out and give-up(What doesn't kill us, makes us... stranger), I learn a LOT and end up with a really cool finished product. It would make much more sense to start out with a simpler project to ease myself into all this, but that damned subconscious masochist impulse demands that I do this the hard way(that and one of my few friends requested that I put this together, though I turned the project into something FAR more complicated than necessary. I was writing out a plan for the menu structure and elements that I want to include the other day, which in retrospect is RIDICULOUSLY complicated. I think I'm going to have to simplify this project if I'm going to complete it before I die, but I still want to keep a lot of the cool/complex little extras I have planned.

PS - can anyone tell me how to make a text link, so I don't have to put the full URL in the middle of my posts?

[guns1inger]

FAVC is what is referred to around here as a one-click-wonder; you shove an avi file in one end, and get a DVD out the other. Nice and simply.

What makes FAVC a cut above some of the others is that is uses HCEnc as one of it's encoders. HCEnc is a free, high quality encoder that is particularly good at lower bitrates. The biggest draw back to HCEnc is that it only reads avisynth and DGIndex project files, and won't take a video file directly. This makes is daunting for newbies, and more time consuming than necessary to set up.

FAVC puts a nice, simple face on HCEnc. It creates the necessary avisynth files and launches HCEnc to do the encoding. On top of that, you can add to the avisynth files through the FAVC interface if you need to include extra filters.

If you tick Yes to Keep Working Files on the front dialogue of FAVC, you get a working folder which includes the elementary streams for all the titles on your discs. These can be used in any decent authoring tool to create a final disc. I often use FAVC to do my encoding, but author in DVD Lab Pro to get the finished disc.

You can run HCEnc without FAVC, and tweak it to your heart's content. Will it improve the quality from the Best settings in FAVC ? Only you will know. HCEnc only does video, which is another advantage to using FAVC - it uses Aften to convert the audio to AC3 (or uses an existing AC3 track if it exists), and does it all in one go.

Basically, you can use FAVC to encode and author, or use it simply as a convenient frontend to simplify the video and audio encoding processes.

[redwudz]

Agree with guns1inger.

You really need to crawl before you can walk with more complex DVD creation. If you are happy with the All-in-Ones, fine. But when you want to do somewhat complex menus, it takes quite a bit more work.

Most pros use quite a few programs to create a finished DVD. Photoshop is popular for producing menu pictures. They may also filter and modify the audio and use a program to convert the finished audio to AC3 before authoring. If you want animated menus, then you have even more steps.

Just basic, but edit and refine the video first and output it as MPEG video. At the same time fix or set up the audio. AC3 is generally recommended.

Then insert the two into your authoring program, along with your preferred menu setup. You may find the payware authoring programs like DVD-Lab Pro make this a bit easier.

When your authoring is completed, burn to DVD. ImgBurn is recommended for this.

There are many tutorials for the individual steps in this whole process, but nothing simple. That's why many suggest the All-in-Ones. If you want to try it the 'hard way', ask specific questions about the programs you are using.

I doubt anyone here will lead you though a complex process in one or several posts.

[reboot]

Step one. Join your AVI's with virtualdub.
Step two. Encode everything to Mpeg, preferrably elementary streams mpv and mpa.
Load everything into DVD Author in the order you want them.
FBI warning is firstplay, then link to another PBC with the second warning, then link to the actual movie.
AS redwudz says, DVDLab (even a trial version) will do a better job of authoring (blowing my own horn here for my guide on it )
There are specific guides on joining movies in virtualdub, as well as how to encode to mpeg (DVD compliant) depending on which encoder you use. FAVC will do the job, if you're comfortable with it.
If you still think this is all a foreign language, it's time to do more reading the guides.

[Gonz0ne]

I really appreciate everyone's help and input, you have given me some very useful info about what tools to use and how to use them for my projects, thanks! I have downloaded several more tools, and am in the process of learning how to use them and the ones that I already have. I'm making progress... slowly, as I always seem to have several dozen projects that I'm trying to work on at once, but I AM learning. DVD creation is a LOT more complicated than I thought it would be, and the learning curve is intimidatingly steep(especially since I am determined to make a complex DVD with many different elements/features, and am not using the simple all-in-one tools)! I'm at the point now where I really just need to spend some time studying the information I have on these tools & processes, and work with the tools to get familiar with them now that I have an idea about what I need to do. I think the first step I'm going to try to complete is the menu, which is going to be pretty complicated. I have posted a thread about my menu (mis)adventure/ambitions, which most of you have probably seen(Hey, I think I finally figured out how to post a link as text!). The plethora of technical details still makes my head hurt, but I am beginning to comprehend some of the fundemental concepts and techniques that go into this. Once I have spent more time working with these tools and techniques, I will certainly have many more questions about issues that I encounter as I proceed. So when I get to them, I will return to post those specific questions. Thank you all for giving me advice and info, and helping to get me started on my quest to learn how to do all this!