List of "really true native" 24P 1920x1080 AVCHD camcorders

[DVDRW]

Which AVCHD camcorder is able to record in this way on today? I want to make true "movie like" film.
I searched google and wont find any camcorder to able to do that.

HVR-V1U doesnt.
Panasonic HVX-200 doesnt.
etc

Ah we still live in stoneage? [/b]

[guns1inger]

I want to make true "movie like" film.[/b]

There is still only one way to do this - shoot on film

[DVDRW]

Or wait Digital camera which makes 24 JPEG pictures per/second?

[guns1inger]

You can't make film without film. 24p is not what makes film look like film.

Movies that look like film do because of the lighting, the lenses, the use of dollies and tripods and cranes and steadicams, and the processing. Film is a chemical process - a flawed process. All else being equal, this is the final and defining difference between film and video.

Most digital shot material ultimately doesn't look like film, even after it has been transferred to film. Look at the night scenes in Collateral - full of video noise. Look at King Kong - unreal visuals that while stunning to look at, never look like film.

A 24p video camera will shoot footage that looks like video. That is what it does. Get everything else right, and the framerate becomes secondary in the illusion. But it will still not look like film.

[DVDRW]

Ok i understand, but is any 24P 1920x1080 progressive CCD AVCHD camcorder does exist today?

[Soopafresh]

The Frames Per second has little to do with "film look". Much more important is shallow Depth of Field (DOF)

Watch this video

http://vimeo.com/1114483

Here's a scene shot in 24p. Looks like video

http://vimeo.com/1064560

[2Bdecided]

Doesn't the Canon HF100 record 1920x1080 24fps straight to memory card?

Cheers,
David.

[Soopafresh]

Yes, both the HF10 and the HF100. There's also the new HG11 which records at a higher bitrate.

[steven_alexander]

I believe this Canon Camcorder is the only "consumer" level (as opposed to prosumer) device that records in Native 24p. I wish I can find one that has a HDD like the Sony HDR-XR500V which records only at 60i. If someone finds another consumer level camcorder that has "native" in its specs then let me know please.

[Soopafresh]

The Canon HV40 records in 24p but you don't get a film look and it is tape based.

Look at the Canon 5D MKII or the Canon 7D . That's about the closest you'll get at the moment, other than the very expensive RED camera. The Canons all suffer from Rolling Shutter problems, the 7D less so.

7D

[poisondeathray]

Canon HFS200 (not quite released yet)
HMC40 (ok , not really consumer, but only slightly more expensive than consumer models)

[greymalkin]

before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?

[Soopafresh]

before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?

Very true.

Example of a 24p shot with too fast of a pan.

Credits to the original cinematographer.

[poisondeathray]

That poster frame from soopa's video is fricken hilarious

The expression on the guys' face. I wonder what he's looking at

[steven_alexander]

Very true.

Example of a 24p shot with too fast of a pan.

Credits to the original cinematographer.

A little disorienting but looks damn good to me. I am not a pro but I do want a camcorder with frame rate options.

[steven_alexander]

before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?

The Canon Vixia HV40 has the following Frame Rates:

60i
Native 24p Progressive (records at 24p)
24p Progressive (records at 60i)
30p Progressive (records at 60i)

And yes, the downside is the tape. That is the only reason I am resisting buying it.

[steven_alexander]

The Canon HV40 records in 24p but you don't get a film look and it is tape based.

Look at the Canon 5D MKII or the Canon 7D . That's about the closest you'll get at the moment, other than the very expensive RED camera. The Canons all suffer from Rolling Shutter problems, the 7D less so.

7D

Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?

[Soopafresh]

Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?

They're both. One of the greatest benefits is being able to attach various 35mm camera lenses, creating short depth of field when shooting video. This is a big factor in creating the "film look", perhaps the biggest. The video format output is AVCHD in a MOV container.

[edDV]

Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?

yes they are but you aren't the original poster.

The 5D is the most affordable alternative to 24p film and can use narrow depth of field lenses. It costs more to convert a camcorder and it ends up looking like this.

Is this what you want?

[steven_alexander]

They're both. The added benefit of being able to attach various lenses gives them the shallow depth of field when shooting video. The video format output is AVCHD in a MOV container.

$1600 is definitely out of my price range. If I had that kind of money I would go for the above $2K high-end type.

[edDV]

The 5D uses more affordable direct lenses but shoots AVCHD which is a problem.

[subc]

7D is the way to go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZp9WMy4ihg

[edDV]

5D for low light (larger effective sensor)
7D has some features and is cheaper.

Sound is a problem with both but film style usually means separate sound or redub later.

[Supreme2k]

I just have to say, in the 7D sample at the 19 second mark, that lady has massive tits.

[Soopafresh]

Eclipsed by her gut, however.

[steven_alexander]

So I guess a list cannot be created because there are no truly native 24P at the consumer level that is. Other than the Canon Vixia I mentioned earlier but with the suckass tape instead of HDD. I just purchased a $2K iMac so I won't be having that kind of money for some time yet. Guess I have to wait til my pockets get fat then I can ask you guys what I can purchase at the Prosumer level.

[poisondeathray]

hfs21 , hfs200

here is a review
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF-S21-Camcorder-Review-37609.htm

[edDV]

" $2K iMac " with what software?

Why do you want 24p? Please explain in as much detail as you can. We may be able to steer you.

What is your camcorder budget? Include tripod, lighting, audio, lenses, and additional software.

[steven_alexander]

hfs21 , hfs200

here is a review
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF-S21-Camcorder-Review-37609.htm

Cool. Thanks poisondeathray. I consider consumer level to be under $1K. To me that would include the hfs200 to the list of "really truly native..." The hfs 21 is around $1300 retail. Do you have any one of these? How do you compare them to others?

[poisondeathray]

Cool. Thanks poisondeathray. I consider consumer level to be under $1K. To me that would include the hfs200 to the list of "really truly native..." The hfs 21 is around $1300 retail. Do you have any one of these? How do you compare them to others?

I think the common definition is < $2K for "consumer" ; but more importantly what distinguishes "consumer" models is the limited manual controls and audio inputs

There are none that I know of that offer 24pN <$1K , except the HV40 mentioned above , which is HDV & tape based