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  1. Member
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    Which AVCHD camcorder is able to record in this way on today? I want to make true "movie like" film.
    I searched google and wont find any camcorder to able to do that.

    HVR-V1U doesnt.
    Panasonic HVX-200 doesnt.
    etc

    Ah we still live in stoneage? [/b]
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  2. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DVDRW
    I want to make true "movie like" film.[/b]
    There is still only one way to do this - shoot on film
    Read my blog here.
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  3. Member
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    Or wait Digital camera which makes 24 JPEG pictures per/second?
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  4. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    You can't make film without film. 24p is not what makes film look like film.

    Movies that look like film do because of the lighting, the lenses, the use of dollies and tripods and cranes and steadicams, and the processing. Film is a chemical process - a flawed process. All else being equal, this is the final and defining difference between film and video.

    Most digital shot material ultimately doesn't look like film, even after it has been transferred to film. Look at the night scenes in Collateral - full of video noise. Look at King Kong - unreal visuals that while stunning to look at, never look like film.

    A 24p video camera will shoot footage that looks like video. That is what it does. Get everything else right, and the framerate becomes secondary in the illusion. But it will still not look like film.
    Read my blog here.
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  5. Member
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    Ok i understand, but is any 24P 1920x1080 progressive CCD AVCHD camcorder does exist today?
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  6. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    The Frames Per second has little to do with "film look". Much more important is shallow Depth of Field (DOF)

    Watch this video

    http://vimeo.com/1114483

    Here's a scene shot in 24p. Looks like video

    http://vimeo.com/1064560
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  7. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Doesn't the Canon HF100 record 1920x1080 24fps straight to memory card?

    Cheers,
    David.
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  8. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    Yes, both the HF10 and the HF100. There's also the new HG11 which records at a higher bitrate.
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  9. I believe this Canon Camcorder is the only "consumer" level (as opposed to prosumer) device that records in Native 24p. I wish I can find one that has a HDD like the Sony HDR-XR500V which records only at 60i. If someone finds another consumer level camcorder that has "native" in its specs then let me know please.
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  10. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    The Canon HV40 records in 24p but you don't get a film look and it is tape based.

    Look at the Canon 5D MKII or the Canon 7D . That's about the closest you'll get at the moment, other than the very expensive RED camera. The Canons all suffer from Rolling Shutter problems, the 7D less so.

    7D
    Last edited by Soopafresh; 30th Jan 2010 at 17:45.
    "Quality is cool, but don't forget... Content is King!"
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  11. Canon HFS200 (not quite released yet)
    HMC40 (ok , not really consumer, but only slightly more expensive than consumer models)
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    before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

    24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?
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  13. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greymalkin View Post
    before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

    24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?
    Very true.

    Example of a 24p shot with too fast of a pan.

    Credits to the original cinematographer.
    Image Attached Files
    "Quality is cool, but don't forget... Content is King!"
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  14. That poster frame from soopa's video is fricken hilarious

    The expression on the guys' face. I wonder what he's looking at


    Name:  soopa.jpg
Views: 10866
Size:  20.0 KB
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  15. Originally Posted by Soopafresh View Post
    Very true.

    Example of a 24p shot with too fast of a pan.

    Credits to the original cinematographer.
    A little disorienting but looks damn good to me. I am not a pro but I do want a camcorder with frame rate options.
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  16. Originally Posted by greymalkin View Post
    before thinking that 24p is this pie in the sky film-like perfection (which many have already shown it is not) you should really try recording in 24p mode on a camera..you'll find you'd better know what you're doing or you'll not be happy with your video..you've got to be VERY careful not to do quick pans, fast zooms..or anything else you might be used to.

    24p well executed with appropriate hardware/lighting/shooting methods can be just dandy, but with joe blow behind the camera it can be a very dissatisfying experience. Why not step into the modern world and take advantage of 30p/60i?

    The Canon Vixia HV40 has the following Frame Rates:

    60i
    Native 24p Progressive (records at 24p)
    24p Progressive (records at 60i)
    30p Progressive (records at 60i)

    And yes, the downside is the tape. That is the only reason I am resisting buying it.
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  17. Originally Posted by Soopafresh View Post
    The Canon HV40 records in 24p but you don't get a film look and it is tape based.

    Look at the Canon 5D MKII or the Canon 7D . That's about the closest you'll get at the moment, other than the very expensive RED camera. The Canons all suffer from Rolling Shutter problems, the 7D less so.

    7D

    Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?
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  18. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven_alexander View Post
    Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?

    They're both. One of the greatest benefits is being able to attach various 35mm camera lenses, creating short depth of field when shooting video. This is a big factor in creating the "film look", perhaps the biggest. The video format output is AVCHD in a MOV container.

    Last edited by Soopafresh; 31st Jan 2010 at 15:50.
    "Quality is cool, but don't forget... Content is King!"
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  19. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steven_alexander View Post
    Wait! Did I make is clear that I was referring to a Camcorder? Aren't the 5d and 7d SLR's?

    yes they are but you aren't the original poster.

    The 5D is the most affordable alternative to 24p film and can use narrow depth of field lenses. It costs more to convert a camcorder and it ends up looking like this.

    Is this what you want?
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  20. Originally Posted by Soopafresh View Post
    They're both. The added benefit of being able to attach various lenses gives them the shallow depth of field when shooting video. The video format output is AVCHD in a MOV container.
    $1600 is definitely out of my price range. If I had that kind of money I would go for the above $2K high-end type.
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  21. Member edDV's Avatar
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    The 5D uses more affordable direct lenses but shoots AVCHD which is a problem.
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  22. Member edDV's Avatar
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    5D for low light (larger effective sensor)
    7D has some features and is cheaper.

    Sound is a problem with both but film style usually means separate sound or redub later.
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  23. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    I just have to say, in the 7D sample at the 19 second mark, that lady has massive tits.
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  24. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    Eclipsed by her gut, however.
    "Quality is cool, but don't forget... Content is King!"
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  25. So I guess a list cannot be created because there are no truly native 24P at the consumer level that is. Other than the Canon Vixia I mentioned earlier but with the suckass tape instead of HDD. I just purchased a $2K iMac so I won't be having that kind of money for some time yet. Guess I have to wait til my pockets get fat then I can ask you guys what I can purchase at the Prosumer level.
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  26. Member edDV's Avatar
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    " $2K iMac " with what software?

    Why do you want 24p? Please explain in as much detail as you can. We may be able to steer you.

    What is your camcorder budget? Include tripod, lighting, audio, lenses, and additional software.
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  27. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Cool. Thanks poisondeathray. I consider consumer level to be under $1K. To me that would include the hfs200 to the list of "really truly native..." The hfs 21 is around $1300 retail. Do you have any one of these? How do you compare them to others?
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  28. Originally Posted by steven_alexander View Post
    Cool. Thanks poisondeathray. I consider consumer level to be under $1K. To me that would include the hfs200 to the list of "really truly native..." The hfs 21 is around $1300 retail. Do you have any one of these? How do you compare them to others?
    I think the common definition is < $2K for "consumer" ; but more importantly what distinguishes "consumer" models is the limited manual controls and audio inputs

    There are none that I know of that offer 24pN <$1K , except the HV40 mentioned above , which is HDV & tape based
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