Mini DVD's Audio/Video not syncing after being ripped

[Undead Sega]

I have been working with a friend who has a MiniDVD camcorder (takes both DVD-RAM and DVD-R) and of course the advantage of using them is to directly take the discs onto a computer.

however, when i ripped them and extracted the video file from the discs and import it in VirtualDub (i use it for converting) for playback preview, i see without a doubt that there are syncing problems, to which i dont know why.

i also done dvd2avi, where i created a d2v file and a wav file, to which i brought them into TMPGEnc Plus to encode them into a lossless file, and again to my surpise it was still unsync.

Nothing is wrong with my drives or how i ripped them, they should play or be read properly, can someone tell me why is this happening?

[Baldrick]

Try instead latest dgindex instead of dvd2avi. Or use vob2mpg on the dvd-video and open the mpg directly in virtualdubmod or virtualdubmpeg2 (or open the vobs directly).

[Undead Sega]

well, i have used dgindex, but i am unable to get an ac3 decode to wav audio stream like dvd2avi does, how can i make that work?

[Undead Sega]

in addition, i used the ac3 to wav decoded wav that was made in dvd2avi and encoded them together in TMPGEnc, but i still get an unsync sound.

also, i made the d2v made by dgindex into a lossless avi and took the demuxed ac3 made by dgindex and encoded them using TMPGXpress (which accpets AC3 streams) and i still get it unsync when i preview them together.

[Baldrick]

When you extracted the ac3 audio does it say if it's any delay(it's in the filename)? Then use delaycut on the ac3file.

But tmpgenc xpress should be able to import dvds directly.

Or use xvid4psp,autogk and convert to avi.

[Undead Sega]

this is what the file reads: VTS_01_PGC_02_1 T80 2_0ch 192Kbps DELAY 0ms.ac3

well, for the MiniDVD-R, it was ripped into one large VOB file using CladDVD.net

[Undead Sega]

help anyone may i ask?

i believe it might be the video that is the problem, but i do not know how to fix that.

[hech54]

I would personally try to copy the disc to my hard drive with DVDDecrypter....then run the contents through FixVTS.

[Undead Sega]

well, since i ripped those miniDVDs using CladDVD.NET into one VOB file, is there still a way to recover from this?

also, from the MiniDVD-RAMs, i only copied the .VRO file.

when i import the VOB file into VirtualDubMod, u can tell something is wrong between A/V sync because when u go to the framerate option, instead of 25fps, it recommends u to turn it to 24.9xxfps for syncing, which of course doesnt work throughout.

for the .VRO file, there is only a very minor difference, with a 25.001fps recommendation.

[hech54]

FixVTS still may be able to help. Just make copies of your work
first OR make sure FixVTS keeps the originals for you.

FixVTS is small and free....can't hurt right?

[Undead Sega]

well i dont have the originals, that is why i ripped them, but not in ur standard way (which was my fault because i knew in my heart that i would normally do).

but with FixVTS, would i still be able to import the VOB and VRO files?

[Undead Sega]

okay, i took the VOB file into FixVTS and i still have the syncing problem. To back this up, VirtualDub still gives me the same fixing framerate.

what else could i do may i ask?

[hech54]

I personally have no problem fixing out of sync audio in either VirtualDub or AviDemux...but it's not something that has only one answer really. Sometimes demuxing and converting the audio to .WAV makes it easier with one program...sometimes leaving it muxed and using another program works better. Sometimes running it through MPEG-VCR 's GOP Fixer solves the problem.
I throw the kitchen sink at it.

[Undead Sega]

i really dont know what to do after this.

i have infact demuxed both, and strangely when i imported it into an encoder like TMPGXpress, it only views like 10secs for only a couple hundred frames, when obviously like 16mins for of footage.

same thing when opened in TMPGEnc Plus, and when played in PowerDVD, the searching bar gets filled up within 10secs, but continues to play.

i think it is definately the video, asif u were to preview it perfectly like in PowerDVD or VLC Player, everytime a recording has stopped and then onto a new chapter, u can see heavy (corrupt) macroblocking for a few frames until it continues to play, in addition some players would stutter the video for abit then to play normally, abit like a small dust stratch, not saying there were any stratches of course!

[hech54]

Aside from re-ripping....you may have just exhausted all of your options. Now that i think of it there IS one video i was never able to sync....but it was a crappy FLV file so I didn't put too much effort into it. There are better tools now for FLV...maybe I will try it again.

[Undead Sega]

But soemthing really isnt right, i have also just discovered something.

when i take the VOB file into VirtualDub, it says there are 25414 frames,
but then i frameserve it to TMPGEnc, it says 25413 frames , which isnt a big deal.

when i now take the demuxed m2v file into VirtualDub, it now reads 25418 frames, and when taken into TMPGEnc its just 1 frame less.

however, when i import the d2v file that is frameserving the VOB file into TMPGEnc, it now reads 25415 frames, but then, i imported the d2v file that is frameserving the demuxed m2v file which here reads 25418 frames!

now, here's whats interesting, now involving TMPGEnc Xpress, i imported any of the video files mentioned above and i would mroe or less get the same results, including just a couple of a hundred frames. But, when combined with the AC3 file that was demuxed from the VOB, i went into the Cut-Edit to preview the files, which to my amazement but not suprised, the AC3 file has boosted the frames up to 25453! with stil the video file lagging behind and still very much out of sync!

i probably guessed right, something is up with the video, but i do not know how to solve this or im not familiar on what to do. If recording from this MiniDVD cam is such a bother on MiniDVD-R's, then what is the point of taking and ripping it onto a computer???

i hope this helps, can anyone help me on this whatsoever?

[Undead Sega]

anyone here whatsoever?

[Abond]

If you play the VOB in a player (not VDub) is it in synch?

[Undead Sega]

i played the VOB file in a player yes, like VLC and PowerDVD, and yes they do stay in sync, however as i mentioned in my previous post, when it cuts to a new scene, the video stutters or freezes for a few frames then it continues.

I believe it does that because it is holding the video for abit until it know when to start playing again inorder to match itself with the sound.

[poisondeathray]

just a guess, but did you have "honor pulldown flags" selected for field operation in dgmpgdec?

[Abond]

When you analyse the demuxed files are they of same lenght (hh:mms)?
And the encoded files?

just a guess, but did you have "honor pulldown flags" selected for field operation in dgmpgdec?

It is PAL, there aren't such flags.

[Undead Sega]

its actually quite hard to analyse the demuxed m2v file, because of its problems, as i stated, its reads in encoders around 10secs, but in virtualdub it reads the whole thing, but it is slightly shorter than the demuxed ac3.

the example would is that the in virtualdub, the m2v file would have between 25414 - 25418 frames, but when i load that m2v file with the ac3 file (of course the encoder would read only around 200frames) the actual length (to what i believe) is 25453 frames.

[Abond]

Load them in Cuttermaran. It will tell you exactly.
Look also for the framerates (but I think they will be 25 fps)

[Undead Sega]

okay then, will do, but yes they are 25p, infact, it is 50i, but thats no difference.

do u see any problems with what ive mentioned?

[Undead Sega]

okay...

m2v - 00:16:56,800

ac3 - 00:16:58,176

i think that answers partly of my question.

[Abond]

Maybe there is some problem with the recording to the disc. VDub is analysing the file when importing and compare the framecount and the lenght of audio and video. As a result (at 25 fps video is shorter then the audio) it recomend to drop the framerate at 24.9xxx in order to have them equal in lenght - synched. I want to be sure it is really so.

[Undead Sega]

i do believe there is some problem when it was recording but it plays well and stays in sync, it is only when the streams are seperated they show their true colours.

even in virtualdub, when u go to the framerate option, it wants to slow the video down to 24.9xxfps for a/v syncing, but it obviously doesnt work, because maybe the frame drops from each scene varies alittle.

and i am in a pal region, so the audio is made recorded to be in sync with the video,

[Abond]

Well, firstly I would try to make them equal in lenght, workind with the audio. I am using a small programm called Soundstretch using .bat files - well, yes it is command line and can work only with .wav files. I think it is part (an exe file actually) of BeSweet.

[Undead Sega]

so, there is no way to fix the video and to match it with the audio? it really does look like a drop of frames when it was recorded but somehow keeps itself in sync.

is it possible to take the miniDVD camcorder and connect it to a PC via Firewire and capture it very much like a miniDV?

[Abond]

Of course, there is a way to fix the video. Both can be synched in a Avisynth script for sure, only I never have worked with audio in Avisynth, so I don't know details about it. But I would not recomend to work with video, because it is more difficult and can cost you video quality (sometimes a lot of). The thing is even worst, because your video is interlaced. Better work with the audio - there are for sure audio programs that can change the tempo (but not the pitch) of a file in order to make it shorter.
About Firewire - well, I don't know.
And about the Soundstretch - converting the ac3 to wav and back after the edition is in fact the easiest part of the process.