VHS to Digital format

[jlorelle]

I am sure this question has been asked but I cannot seem to find the answer. I need to convert approximately 30 VHS and VHS-C tapes to digital format. My confusion is which format I should capture to. I am not interested in going directly to DVD - I can do that later. I just want to preserve the tapes in the best format possible. I capture through a Sony DV Camcorder with a firewire connection. I have used Pinnacle but I am not bound to it. I've tried MPEG, AVI and DV. Obviously DV is very large. I had trouble reading the MPEG on the Mac. Is there a general recommendation for the best capture software and output format?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[dphirschler]

DV is what you want. You'll just have to deal with the size. Video makes huge files. That is until you are ready to author it, in which case you will be making a DVD or Dvix file.

If size is a problem then you are going to have to sacrifice some quality. You could try capturing direct to mpeg2. Just set the bitrate very high and you'll get decent compression without much loss of quality.


Darryl

[minidv2dvd]

use the native output of the DV cam. DVavi captured with winDV is easy to edit/convert to dvd/and will retain the full resolution captured without any problems. only drawback is that a 2 hour tape will require 26GB of hard drive space.

other choices depend on the desired final format - dvd, mp4, mkv, blueray???

[PuzZLeR]

Here are my answers, pretty much agreeing with the answers you got:

Capture to DV. You can capture to more compressed formats, like MPEG-2, but DV can preserve, pretty much, the highest quality possible and is much easier to edit and work with.

I pretty much don't worry about the big files sizes of DV since the file format is only temporary - for edits, crops to remove VHS "tracking fuzz", etc, and for encoding to a smaller file format for the final production (such as MPEG-2/DvD, DivX/Xvid, H.264, blu-ray, WMV, etc.)

I agree that WinDV is an excellent, yet amazingly simple, capture utility from the firewire port. It's also free.

I don't know a good free editor for DV (or for any format). But if you want a good DV editor, I recommend Ulead VideoStudio.

Yes DV is big (about 13GB/hour) but after edits, you can easily compress it. Depending on how much space you can allocate, just work with one or two tapes at a time until done. You don't have to dump all 30 tapes at once to get the project done.

[mpack]

Obviously DV is very large.

In addition to what others have suggested, I recommend you invest in a large second HDD for your PC if possible. 1TB drives are getting pretty cheap these days, and it means you can almost forget the storage problem.

However, do check inside your PC box before ordering. When I opened up my PC box with new hard drive ready to install I discovered that my DVD drive was already using the second SATA port... so I had to order a new DVD writer drive too (*). Happily these cost very little and it gave me an excuse to shop for a good one.

(*) Edit. Obviously the replacement had to be EIDE.

[jlorelle]

Thanks everybody for the responses. I suspected DV was the way to go and I will just purchase additional drive space. My goal was to preserve the family videos in the best possible way so that many years in the future my kids (or whoever) can do what they like with the raw footage. This is for long term purposes.

Thanks again.

[yoda313]

@jlorelle - please note that windv is apparently a windows only application. I would recommend looking for a comparable freeware app for mac.

Or use bootcamp and do your video editing on windows if you have the capability (and are running an mactel computer).

[jlorelle]

yoda313,

Thanks for the info - I probably didn't communicate my setup that well. I do capture everything in a Windows machine but I tend to 'play' on the Mac and was creating a few quick iMovies and web videos for remote family. I am not sure why I could not open the MPEG files created by Pinnacle on other machines (Mac and PC.) I assumed that MPEG was somewhat universal. On the Mac I had to convert to MP4 (w/H.264) which the compression twice-over killed the quality. I captured a few into DV last night after everybody's help and I am very pleased with the quality. Does anybody know if Pinnacle has a unique codec or am I asking the wrong question. Thanks again.

[mpack]

I assumed that MPEG was somewhat universal.

An MPEG-1 decoder has been a standard feature of Windows since Win98, if not before (I can't speak for the Mac).

MPEG-2 is another matter, AFAIK it still isn't a standard feature of Vista (you only get it if DVD player software has been bundled). And, sometimes MPEG-2 video clips are given the .mpg extension, so it would be easy to assume it's an MPEG-1. I don't know if that's the case with Pinnacle as that's another thing I don't use.

[yoda313]

@jlorelle - fyi vlc and mediaplayerclassic for the pc use internal codecs and can play mpeg2 clips.

I don't know about free alternatives for the mac however. I am sure if you have a copy of powerdvd or windvd for the mac that would allow you to not only play dvds but mpeg2 files as well.

[PuzZLeR]

My apologies about WinDV. Didn't realize it isn't on a Mac. Wish I knew more about Mac software. I will comment on this:

I suspected DV was the way to go and I will just purchase additional drive space. My goal was to preserve the family videos in the best possible way so that many years in the future my kids (or whoever) can do what they like with the raw footage. This is for long term purposes.

The best answer I can give here is actually keep it in DV format. You will preserve all the quality when you don't compress. Storage is getting bigger and cheaper per unit all the time. If you were just archiving some trivial stuff, then I'd say compress it. But when you are talking precious family vidz that need preservation for generations to come, then an investment in an extra HD that would serve as a Master of this content wouldn't hurt.

[lordsmurf]

DV is compression too.

[SingSing]

DV tape is a safer long term video storage than disc.
If there is a problem on a disc, you loose everthing after that point.
If there is a problem on a DV tape, you loose a second or two of video/audio.

[jlorelle]

Because of the length and complexity of this project I am doing all of the above. I am capturing into raw DV, copying to multiple backup devices (including online) and will eventually copy back to DV tape. Right now I am struggling with raw vs. Type 2 but I believe I have it sorted out. The audio tends to drift when capturing on Vista so I am doing it on the Mac (not my preferred choice) which only has the raw option. I am using JohnnyMalarias app (Enosoft) to convert raw to Type 2 if I need to modify the video in Windows.

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it is better to capture directly from the analog source to the computer or to DV tape and then to computer. I have seen a few comments that going to tape first might be better because of time codes (??), etc. Thanks.

[SingSing]

Wire the audio and video from the VHS VCR to a DV camcorder with analog input and just record it on DV tapes.

[jlorelle]

@SingSing

Is there a particular advantage to doing that other than long term storage? My goal is to preserve the video back to DV when I am done but in the interim it is faster to go directly to the computer rather than the two step process of VHS to DV to computer. Thanks.

[SingSing]

1. VHS and VHS-C only have the resolution and quality equal to VCD video. Simple miniDV or DVD-video capture will preserve more quality than VHS/-C can offer.

2. The replacement of VCR is DVD. So the sensible way is to record and edit the video into DVDs. When the DVD video have any problems on the disc, you will loose everthing after that point.

3. For the precious moments that you want to keep, keep it on DV tape. If there is a problem on a DV tape, you only loose a second or two of video/audio.

[lordsmurf]

DV tape is a safer long term video storage than disc.
If there is a problem on a disc, you loose everthing after that point.
If there is a problem on a DV tape, you loose a second or two of video/audio.

Not at all true. None of it.

- Tape is not safer than disc. Both have pros and cons.
- Disc can be recovered on both sides of an error (something like ISO Puzzle is great).
- Some DV tape errors run the length of the tape, I see it way too often.

[jlorelle]

I still want to get the footage onto the computer regardless of the reliability of the two mediums. In the end I will have the DV data on both. However, at t his point, I am trying to determine if there are any advantages of copying from VCR to DV Tape then to the computer. Or should I avoid the two-step process and capture directly from the VCR onto the computer using the Sony DV camera as a pass-through only.

[SingSing]

Even capturing VHS as DVD video is overkilled.
Capturing VHS to DV is really waste of disk space.

[tinker]

Why don't you capture just using firewire and DV format through camera.
Lots if not all pro or semi pro software will edit DV as it can be edited (cut)frame by frame. MPEG2 is edited on I-frame only.
You can always choose how to store later if DV is available, other than that, you are stuck.

[jlorelle]

I'm not sure I am communicating the question very well. I am not having any problems capturing the analog to DV. I have captured to both DV tape and to a .DV file on the computer. I am also able to edit the .DV files in various applications such as Premiere and FCE. However, I had read that it is better to go to tape first because you can use date and time codes and then capture from the tape to the computer. I was wondering if there was any truth to that or any other advantages. My preference, obviously, is to go directly to a .DV file because it only requires one pass and is far less time-consuming. Thanks for all your help.

[PuzZLeR]

DV is compression too.

Although it's still bloated, and DV is only 5x more compressed than raw, while others are 10x, 15x, 25x, etc., for all intents and purposes, you are correct.