Help exporting edited videos to AVI

[nhart1001]

I've been working with some .avi's in Premier Pro and am having difficulty exporting the edited versions in .avi without creating huge files that suffer quality loss. The source files are recorded powerpoint presentations with an audio track created by a VGA capture machine (Epiphan's VGA recorder). I've checked the source file properties with G-Spot, one example:

size: 298 MB
kbps: 290
frms/sec: 30
codec: MP42 S-Mpeg 4 version 2
res: 1024 x 768

This file is 1hr, 35min long. I've cut out a 45 min segment and exported it as an AVI using the Cinepec codec, and selected 'maintain source file properties' and its created a 750 MB file. Whats worse, is that this huge file looks significantly worse than the original. I've tried lowering the bitrate and halving the frame rate, but the files are still huge.

Is there something that I'm missing here? Do I need to convert the source file into a different codec before editing? Thanks in advance for your help!

Nathan

[Baldrick]

I wouldn't use the cinepac codec. Can't you choose any mpeg-4 version as codec in the codec-list? Or install the divx codec or xvid codec and use it as video codec.

[nhart1001]

When choosing to export my movie as Microsoft AVI, PP gives me the following compressor choices:

Cinepak
Indeo video 5.10
Intel Indeo Video R3.2
Intel Indeo Video 4.5
Intel IYUV
Microsoft RLE
Microswoft Video 1
Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit
None

I don't see a mpeg-4 compressor choice, unless one of these is that. Would I better off choosing to export this video as a MS DV AVI? The final intended format is FLV, i just need to get my videos in a decent quality AVI so I can transcode them with ProCoder.

thanks again,

[whatsmyname]

Install ffdshow here which gives you xvid and mp4 encoding engines.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDshow.htm

Similarly, install Quicktime Alternative will also give you MP4 MOV encoding engine.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm

In Premier chose Export to Microsoft AVI. Under "General" chose "ffdshow video codec", click on "Configure" gives you encoding options to specify settings such as xvid, mp4, 1-pass, 2-pass, bitrate etc. I took a screenshot below.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/870/ppexportxj5.png

[Baldrick]

If you are going to use procoder later then convert to uncompressed avi or use a huffyuv or lagarith and you wont lose any video quality.

[nhart1001]

Thanks Guys, I'm going to try a few of these codecs now.

Just for my edification: When I import and avi encoded with an mpeg-4 codec into Premier, does premier 'unpack' it for editing? Am I working working with an uncompressed avi while in Premier?

thanks again,

Nathan

[whatsmyname]

I don't know, but I don't think so. If Premier can handle the mp4, it'll edit as is (without unpacking), this is what I found with editing mpeg2 files.

However, I tend to import files such as mp4, rm, divx and so on through avisynth, most of the time avisynth handles them better. There is definitely no unpacking of any sort using avisynth.

[nhart1001]

So, I used ffdshowtest to encode a few of my AVIs, and now I'm creating absolutely enormous files (15min, 54GB). Here's a screenshot of my encoding settings:

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ffdshownyasew9.jpg

When I check the 54GB avi in gspot, it says:

Note:45.4 GB unneeded bytes at end of file
Multipart Open DML AVI (3 parts)
(907 frames in first part, 22432 frames follow)

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

[poisondeathray]

I don't use ffdshow for encoding, but in the screenshot you selected 2-pass, 1st pass. So if it's anything like DivX or XviD in vdub, the 1st pass is a .stats file that will be overwritten. The actual settings are defined in the 2nd pass (i.e. you have to do it twice, once for 1st pass, once for 2nd pass)

You could also choose 1pass quantizer to make it easier

[whatsmyname]

So, I used ffdshowtest to encode a few of my AVIs, and now I'm creating absolutely enormous files (15min, 54GB). Here's a screenshot of my encoding settings:

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ffdshownyasew9.jpg

When I check the 54GB avi in gspot, it says:

Note:45.4 GB unneeded bytes at end of file
Multipart Open DML AVI (3 parts)
(907 frames in first part, 22432 frames follow)

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

It appears to be encoded without compression. I don't know why. But try something different, use H.264 instead of MP4, fourcc = h264, and set the mode to "one pass - average bitrate" and bitrate to 2,000 kbps. You should have a very good quality output with filesize under 500MB.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1686/ppexport2cj1.png

[nhart1001]

@whatsmyname:

I tried the H.264 settings at one pass and the result was a very manageable <500MB file. However, there's a good deal of distortion in any moving portions of the presentation. Is this a result of the keyframe interval setting?

thanks again,

[whatsmyname]

Distortion, as in the image looks interlaced or have a ghosting type of look?

By default Premie exports the AVI with Lower Field First under "Keyframe and Rendering". Unless you know your AVI is interlaced, change it to "No Fields (Progressive Scan)".

I can only suggest another method that doesn't take up 50GB of HDD. In the ffdshow settings, chose "H.264 lossless" instead of "H.264". Then under "Motion Estimation" try:

Method = ESA
Maximum length of motion vector: 64 (511 by default).

You'll probably end up with a 2GB file using this method.

[nhart1001]

An interesting development:

After readying through some posts, I downloaded VirtualDub to compare its export results to Premier. I was able to export a 50min avi, using the 'direct stream' setting (codec S-Mpeg 4 version 2) that looked perfect and was only 168MB.

Why can't I get similar results from Premier Pro? I apologize for being so naive, but this is very puzzling to me.

thanks,

Nathan

[poisondeathray]

Direct stream copy in vdub will just copy the video exactly. You can't do fancy filtering or special effects. Only simple linear editing. If you did any filtering or special effects, you have to re-encode anyway.

Premiere is fully featured and allows you to do just about everything. The processed video has to be exported as uncompressed or using a lossless codec to keep the same quality - you can't direct stream copy when your video has so many edits and additional effects.

For simple linear .avi editing (like cutting out segments) just use vdub in direct stream copy mode