Pal S-VHS to NTSC PC

[Jerry1964]

Hello

I have a large collection of Pal tapes I want to capture on my PC in Pal. Now I have a nice JVC S-VHS Player and have tried with several programs to capture from Pal to PAL DV, but Nero, vegas and Adobe just give me a distorted image. I have a capture card with S-VHS input, but I also have a pro JVC S-VHS-Mini DVC Deck that outtputs analog signals through the firewire. Again plugging the Pal player into the JVC mini-DVC deck just gets me a distorted capture. How can I capture a Pal tape onto my PC and keep it Pal? would like to use the firewire if possible

[guns1inger]

To start with PCs are neither PAL or NTSC. Your problem most likely lies with the video player, which is probably not outputting true PAL or NTSC, but pseudo-PAL, which is PAL resolution at NTSC framerates. Not all capture devices are able to correctly interpret this hybrid signal. I suspect that it also cannot correctly convert PAL to NTSC through the firewire, nor natively send PAL through the firewire.

[edDV]

Hello

I have a large collection of Pal tapes
Now I have a nice JVC S-VHS Player
I have a capture card with S-VHS input,
but I also have a pro JVC S-VHS-Mini DVC Deck that outtputs analog signals through the firewire.

So are you saying the JVC S-VHS Player and JVC S-VHS-Mini DVC Deck are PAL models not NTSC?

Is your capture card set for PAL?

PAL S-VHS players will work fine for PAL tapes but not for NTSC. As said they will output a PAL 60 hybrid when playing NTSC tapes.

[Jerry1964]

I have one S-Vhs Pal player(it has no convertor built in) and one NTSC MiniDVC/S-VHS. The NTSC deck has a firewire in/out jack. I can output Svhs through the firewire and not just the DVC, Don't know if this is a good way to capture analog tapes? So What I am trying to do is:

Take a Pal S-VHS tape, put it in the Pal Player, The Pal player is connceted to the NTSC DVC/SVHS deck through S-V connector. the reason I did this, is so I can send the unconveted Pal signal though the firewire to the PC and capture it in Pal. Maybe once the Pal signal is sent to the NTSC deck the signal gets messed up? I also tried to connect the Pal S-VHS player directly to the PC via rca cable on the front of my gateway. But I have never had luck getting these analog inputs on the PC to work. Gateway is no help. Plus using these inputs would mean using this cheap Vixs capture card, I would think the firewire would be the way to go? Anyhow,

my want is simple, How can I get the Pal video on my PC to work with. I mean without converting it during the capture

[hech54]

I have one S-Vhs Pal player(it has no convertor built in) and one NTSC MiniDVC/S-VHS.
...........
The Pal player is connceted to the NTSC DVC/SVHS deck through S-V connector. the reason I did this, is so I can send the unconveted Pal signal though the firewire to the PC and capture it in Pal.

The NTSC deck also does not have a converter. It does not understand the incoming signal
because it(the incoming signal) is PAL.

[edDV]

I have one S-Vhs Pal player(it has no convertor built in) and one NTSC MiniDVC/S-VHS. The NTSC deck has a firewire in/out jack. I can output Svhs through the firewire and not just the DVC, Don't know if this is a good way to capture analog tapes? So What I am trying to do is:

Take a Pal S-VHS tape, put it in the Pal Player, The Pal player is connceted to the NTSC DVC/SVHS deck through S-V connector. the reason I did this, is so I can send the unconveted Pal signal though the firewire to the PC and capture it in Pal. Maybe once the Pal signal is sent to the NTSC deck the signal gets messed up? I also tried to connect the Pal S-VHS player directly to the PC via rca cable on the front of my gateway. But I have never had luck getting these analog inputs on the PC to work. Gateway is no help. Plus using these inputs would mean using this cheap Vixs capture card, I would think the firewire would be the way to go? Anyhow,

my want is simple, How can I get the Pal video on my PC to work with. I mean without converting it during the capture

Since the DVC/SVHS deck is an NTSC model, it will NOT work for PAL. For regional marketing reasons, all consumer NTSC DV equipment are blocked for PAL. There are a few camcorder exceptions at the NTSC prosumer level but these will only play pre-recorded PAL DV tapes to the LCD, not to the IEEE-1394 interface.

The immediate options you can pursue:

1. For DV capture from the PAL S-VHS deck invest in an analog to DV transcoder (e.g. Canopus ADVC, ADS Pyro, Datavideo,etc.). If you have no ongoing need, you could buy an ADVC 100/110 or 300 on eBay and then resell it at low loss. The Canopus models seem to have the best resale value. All models are switchable from PAL to NTSC and separately from 0.0IRE black to 7.5IRE black. I use my ADVC-100 for PAL captures mostly from tunerbox, Betacam SP, U-Matic or 1" Type C tape but sometimes from PAL VHS. These boxes have many uses. I normally use it for NTSC import to DV (Vegas or Premiere) and for timeline output monitoring to a video display.

2. Get a better internal capture card that is known to work for PAL. Others may have model number suggestions.

[lordsmurf]

There's another option, too:

3. Pay a service that works on such tapes. Feel free to PM me (Private Message link at the top of this page) for more information.

Buying more capture cards and/or VCRs can get expensive quickly. The results of converting PAL to NTSC will also be dismal if you've never done it before, especially if you try to use software methods. It results in jaggy/jerky video more often that not. In the long-run, this may be more economical for you, and it requires zero effort on your part.

Just an option to keep in mind. You do not have to do it all yourself, especially if quality matters.

[edDV]

There's another option, too:

3. Pay a service that works on such tapes. Feel free to PM me (Private Message link at the top of this page) for more information.

Buying more capture cards and/or VCRs can get expensive quickly. The results of converting PAL to NTSC will also be dismal if you've never done it before, especially if you try to use software methods. It results in jaggy/jerky video more often that not. In the long-run, this may be more economical for you, and it requires zero effort on your part.

Just an option to keep in mind. You do not have to do it all yourself, especially if quality matters.

Right they will be using much higher end equipment (including hardware standards converters) and they have the process perfected. Sometimes their business is seasonal. You can get better quotes in their slow months.

[Jerry1964]

Ok

If I understand this correct, I was told the pc is not Pal or NTSC, I still don't see why I can't plug A Pal VCR Player directly into the PC (I got the capture card to work) and just capture the Pal signal without any conversion. Once I get it on the PC, I can use Pro-Coder 3 to work with the conversion. Can the capture settings have something to do with getting a stable signal to the PC. I have 100's of Pal S-VHS tapes, so paying for pro-conversion is not an option. Does this project require hardware that was mentioned above. If so do these devices convert the signal to NTSC? if it just alows the Pal signal to flow to the PC with no conversion that would work

[guns1inger]

PCs are not PAL or NTSC, but a capture card might be. At the least you may have to tell your capture card that the incoming signal is PAL. Time to read the manual, methinks.

[lordsmurf]

Procoder software conversion sucks -- it ghosts or jerks/jags.

Hardware devices can run from $100-200 crap that works little better than software, up to $1,000 (or more) devices that are as complex as the ones now found in higher-end HD sets (based on Faroujda or Snell & Willcox tech, among others).

You should leave PAL as PAL, to be honest, if you're doing this yourself. Use a DVD player that also plays PAL to watch your final product. It will look better than a software butcher job.

[hech54]

Ok
If I understand this correct, I was told the pc is not Pal or NTSC,

Yes...but as Gunslinger said...capture cards mostly are either PAL or NTSC

I have 100's of Pal S-VHS tapes, so paying for pro-conversion is not an option. Does this project require hardware that was mentioned above.

Just get a used PAL capture card for your computer....like a Hauppauge PVR 150, 250 or 350 from Ebay(making sure it is a PAL version and not an NTSC version)....hook up your PAL VCR and "have at it".
Sell the card when you are done.
Simple.
You have it EASY....you already have a PAL VCR there in America. You are half way home.

[Jerry1964]

Ok

Thanks for all the input, I am now on the look out for a Pal capture device. I will then capture in the native Pal and burn DVD's in Pal and not lose any quality with conversions.

[edDV]

Ok

If I understand this correct, I was told the pc is not Pal or NTSC, I still don't see why I
can't plug A Pal VCR Player directly into the PC (I got the capture card to work) and just
capture the Pal signal without any conversion. Once I get it on the PC, I can use Pro-Coder
3 to work with the conversion. Can the capture settings have something to do with getting a
stable signal to the PC. I have 100's of Pal S-VHS tapes, so paying for pro-conversion is
not an option. Does this project require hardware that was mentioned above. If so do these
devices convert the signal to NTSC? if it just allows the Pal signal to flow to the PC with no
conversion that would work

The DV transfer devices capture PAL to PAL DV format which is good if you want to edit in programs like Premiere or Vegas with high picture quality. Then after editing, you would software encode to PAL MPeg2 and author your DVD.

Cheap capture cards like the one you have capture to uncompressed YUV or use the CPU to attempt MPeg2 encoding on the fly during capture. Software encoding in real time has compromises that affect end picture quality.

The suggestion that you get a Hauppauge PVR device is optimal if you don't intend heavy editing other than simple cuts (e.g. taking out commercials). These PVR capture devices output DVD ready MPeg2 using internal hardware MPeg2 encoders. Programs like Womble MPeg-VCR allow cuts editing of MPeg2 without full recode. MPeg2 suffers quality loss if you recode. The downside of these products is you need separate cards for PAL and NTSC. They don't make a dual format model.

In summary, you would choose DV format if you are anticipating heavy editing, or the PVR device if you are just doing dubs with cuts.

[lordsmurf]

The Hauppage card can do 15,000k bitrate, so it would suffice for editing if absolutely needed. It will work okay in place of DV. Remember DV is compressed too.