Partition Size Issues for New PC with Win98

[bevills1]

Just tried installing Win98 in a new dual boot system with Win2k for which Win98 must be installed first, but Fdisk shows only 10GB total space for 80GB drive and only 20GB total space for 160GB drive. Boot to Win2k install CD shows correct drive space and has options only to create partitions and create 1 drive per partition but has no option to create 2 or more drives per partition. Seagate, Maxtor, etc. have drive prep utilities, but they only work from Windows which is of no use for new systems with no OS. Is there a DOS or Win98 partitioning utility that shows correct drive space and allows multiple drives per partition?

Another problem caused by these issues is that Fdisk screwed up and reversed Slave and Master drives, i.e. showed Slave as drive 1 and Master as drvie 2. This wasn't realized until after Slave drive was repartitioned resulting in loss of Ghost image files stored there causing me to have to reinstall Win98 and Win2k and all apps from scratch which is still in progress. I had also tried creating 5GB Primary partition on both drives anyway and tried to install Win98 that failed because Setup tried to install on Slave drive (then recognized as drive 1), and Win98 will not install on a slave drive. Luckily I had photos and other important files and documents backed up on DVD plus on another PC. The easiest way I could think to get drives partitioned they way I wanted for the new PC was to connect drives as slave to another PC and use Seagate drive utility to create partitions desired. Those drive utilities are great for adding or replacing drives to a Windows system, but surely there should be an easier way for new systems with no OS!

[ahhaa]

Bevs- y'know, you are kinda reaching a point here...
98 was pre USB, pre-DVD, tiny drive sizes, and is insecure online.

Any one of a number of linux live distros would be a vastly superior dual boot setup with your 2K, as well as PNPing all your hardware,
and formatting your drives. I'd recommend it because that'd be a current operating system, and you wouldn't have to besolving obsolete problems.

[TBoneit]

If it is a Win2000 upgrade disc that you are using it doesn't need win98 installed first. At some point it will ask for the qualifying windows disc to verify your upgrade right and you feed it the win98 disc and away you go.

[cd090580]

Why not running your Windows 98 in a virtual machine (VirtualPC, VirtualBox,...) unless you need 3D support ????

No speed reduction noticed.

[bevills1]

It's full version of Win2k, but Win98 must be installed first to setup dual boot if Win98 is to be installed. I use Win98 for older apps that don't run in Win2k, and I use Win2k for nearly everything else. I tried Linux Mandrake 10 a while ago, and it's much too difficult to do the simplest things in Linux, and I don't know if Linux would be capable of creating partitions as desired. I also don't know whether the older apps would run in Linux. Why the functionality to create multiple drives per partition isn't included in Win2k install CD is beyond me and just plain dumb. It can be done from Drive Management within Windows but not from within setup.

[Midzuki]

Have you already tried a Windows ME boot floppy
IIRC, its versions of format.com and fdisk.exe
are the least limited/buggy ones available.

[GKar]

There's a lot of good Win98 stuff here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/Windows-9x-Member-Projects-f91.html&s=29b10e3d3d7ff8dd287828016cf31981

I still maintain a Win98SE box and this is where I go for help, files and workarounds.

[Bjs]

Go to the hard drives manufacture, and get the drive setup utility.

This will allow you to create the required partitions for both win98 first, followed by creating the NTFS partition for windows 2000.

From here, you just go through the correct install process for each os, win98 being first.

Just remember that win98 will not be able to see the partition created for the win 2000 installation

[GKar]

Go to the hard drives manufacture, and get the drive setup utility.

This will allow you to create the required partitions for both win98 first, followed by creating the NTFS partition for windows 2000.

From here, you just go through the correct install process for each os, win98 being first.

Just remember that win98 will not be able to see the partition created for the win 2000 installation

Like WinXP I think you can still use Fat32 with Win2000, granted it isn't as good as NTFS.

[bevills1]

Does the WinMe boot floppy recognize larger drives which Win98 boot floppy doesn't? I have a Seagate utility CD that came with hard drive which works by connecting a new drive as slave to existing Windows system, but it doesn't work if I boot to the utility CD. Boot to the Seagate CD I have results in it giving 4 identical lines stating "Command or file name not recognized" and displays "X:\" after that. I tried typing "Help" to try to find list of commands, but that results in "Unable to read device GENERIC" message. Also the hard drive light remains lit while booted to the CD. A WinMe boot floppy may be my best option if it recognizes large drives that Win98 boot floppy doesn't.

[Midzuki]

Wikipedia says:

On Windows 95/98, due to the version of Microsoft's SCANDISK utility included with these operating systems being a 16-bit application, the FAT structure is not allowed to grow beyond around 4.2 million ( < 222 ) clusters, placing the volume limit at 127.53 gigabytes. A limitation in original versions of Windows 98/98SE's Fdisk causes it to incorrectly report disk sizes over 64GB. A corrected version is available from Microsoft. These limitations do not apply to Windows 2000/XP except during Setup, in which there is a 32GB limit. Windows Me supports the FAT32 file system without any limits. However, similarly to windows 95/98SE there is no native support for 48bit LBA in Windows ME, meaning that the maximum disk size is 127.6GB

Windows 2000 and Windows XP can read and write to FAT32 file systems of any size, but the format program included in Windows 2000 and higher can only create FAT32 file systems of 32 GB or less. This limitation is by design and according to Microsoft was imposed because many tasks on a very large FAT32 file system become slow and inefficient.

HTH.

[bevills1]

In the first Wikipedia quote it states "A corrected version is available from Microsoft." Does that mean a corrected version of Win98 Fdisk, and does anyone have a link to it if that's what's meant?

[Midzuki]

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

[bevills1]

The Midzuki link has several different boot disks. Which, if any, has corrected Fdisk version?

[Midzuki]

I guess you'll have to download and try them both:

http://files.frashii.com/~bootdisk/tennessee/boot98se.exe

http://ellocosprojectx.com/files/BOOT98SC.EXE

Good-luck.

P.S.:

but Fdisk shows only 10GB total space for 80GB drive
and only 20GB total space for 160GB drive.

What had you typed in the command-line:
"fdisk", or "fdisk /fprmt"
This latter is the "full-featured" one.

[bevills1]

I've always typed "fdisk." Do you mean typing "fdisk /fprmt" should show full drive size with current Win98 Fdisk?

[DarrellS]

If you still have the old computer, I would use that for 98 and use the new one for Windows 2000.

I paid to have 98SE/W2000 dual boot about 5 years ago and ended up getting rid of it not long after. It was very unstable and since w2k had to be installed as FAT32, it defeated the purpose of even having Windows 2000.

I eventually got tired of 98SE crashing all the time and put 2000 on the old machine and XP on the new one.

[Midzuki]

Ooops... My bad... When I wrote "fdisk /fprmt",
I was actually thinking about "format /z"... You know, smaller cluster size
means less waste of disk space.

Midzuki

Anyway:

http://bharucha.com/tp701/fdiskSecrets.html

http://www.computerhope.com/fdiskhlp.htm

FORMAT /? = gives you some help.

FORMAT /s = prepares a partition or disk to make it active or bootable.

FORMAT /mbr = creates a new boot sector and should only be used as a last resort.

FORMAT /U = Does a unconditional format, so do the SYS C: to get system files -- then a through scandisk to fix any errors. This FORMAT /U parameter performs an UNCONDITIONAL format, which DESTROYS every byte of data on a disk by overwriting it with. WARNING: You can NOT UNFORMAT a disk formatted using the /U option!

FORMAT /SELECT /U This particular combination of FORMAT.COM parameters makes a disk:
UNREADABLE!
WARNING: DO NOT use these two FORMAT switches TOGETHER on ANY drive!

FORMAT /Z:n formats a FAT32 drive with a cluster size of n times 512 bytes. Meaning:
drive: = your hard drive letter (C:, D:, etc). n = number of sectors per cluster multiplied by 512 = cluster size in bytes.

Examples:
n = 1 creates a 512 bytes cluster;
n = 2 creates a 1024 bytes (1 KB) cluster;
n = ? creates a ? x 512 = ???? bytes (???? bytes : 1024 = ? KB) cluster.

BTW, what makes you think that a [s:c80bffcc37]Windows 98[/s:c80bffcc37] DOS 7.1 boot diskette
would be more suitable for your current problem than a [s:c80bffcc37]Windows ME[/s:c80bffcc37] DOS 8.0 floppy

P.S.: To whom this may interest:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;263044

&&

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/280737

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[biviray]

If I recall correctly Win 98 is limited to 60GB hdd. There are different ways around this. You can partition the drive by using % instead of size and let DOS format, then use a Win NTFS system to reformat or download one the various FDISK files that will do more than 60GB. I have one that does 120GB in DOS.

[bevills1]

DarrellS, Win2k doesn't have to be installed FAT32 when installed dual boot with Win98. Once Win98 is setup, all other partitions/drives can be either FAT32 or NTFS, but Win98 will not recognize any NTFS partitions/drives.

Midzuki, I don't understand what's meant by "BTW, what makes you think that a Windows 98 DOS 7.1 boot diskette would be more suitable for your current problem than a Windows ME DOS 8.0 floppy" since I've not said anything about any DOS floppy. However, in another forum someone posted WinMe Fdisk recognizes larger drives without the limitations of Win98 Fdisk which is why I asked that question in my 8/5 post if that is what you mean. I simply wanted confirmation of what was said in the other forum if anybody here knows.

biviray, Win98 disk size limitation is 137GB and will format up to that size without problem. Note Win98 also has 32GB per logical drive limitation, and the 137GB must be divided into logical drives of size 32GB or smaller. The problem is creating more than 1 logical drive per partition of desired size. If I create partitions after installing Win2k and then uninstall Win2k, then Win98 can format the partitions/drives with no problem if they are FAT32 and 32GB or smaller. Note Win2k must be uninstalled in order to install Win98. The Win2k install disk recognizes full hard disk size, and an extended partition can be created using Win2k installer but has no option to create 2 or more logical drives in the extended partition.

[DarrellS]

DarrellS, Win2k doesn't have to be installed FAT32 when installed dual boot with Win98. Once Win98 is setup, all other partitions/drives can be either FAT32 or NTFS, but Win98 will not recognize any NTFS partitions/drives.

The guys that did my dual boot setup said that it did. Oh well, they didn't charge me any extra to get rid of the dual boot and install just Windows 2000.

[bevills1]

Actually dual boot could have been eliminated very simply without having to reinstall Win2k at all, but obviously the guys that helped you didn't know that either. If Win2k was installed FAT32, that could have been simply converted to NTFS if that was your circumstance and if NTFS is what you wanted.