Transferring VHS to DVD

[deuce8pro]

Theres a brand new DR-MV5 on ebay for the price Orsetto said, under $100.

[victoriabears]

Well I am astounded, a tape recorded at SLP (!) onto DVD using the JVC 78 combo at SP, has come out better than using the JVC SR-V10U onto a M100 JVC dvd recorder.

From reviews of this combo, get one that has been reconditioned, it should have had the bugs fixed.

Stone me as Tony Hancock used to say.

[orsetto]

We can't stone you, victoriabears, your posts are too useful (not to mention entertaining)!

If your experience with the JVC 78 is that encouraging, then perhaps JVC is on an upward trend again? They were pretty bad after the DRM100 for a couple years. In any case that eCost price is very very tempting if the unit is even half as good as your tests showed.

[victoriabears]

Yes , they have jvc MV7's as well, and with that MV78 you get an upconverting divx enabled dvd player that does a nice job, not bad for US$82.00

[lordsmurf]

The "7" and "8" models lack any kind of FR mode, however.

[victoriabears]

Yes they do, but I am finding that the majority of my 1000 odd vhs programs are 2 hours and under, and this combo plays pal dvd's on a ntsc TV.
I also own a philips 3576 and frankly what I am seeing is the more up to date dvd recorders seem to have taken a leap in recording quality, obvioualy I am mainly transferring from vhs, not off air.

[davideck]

I also own a philips 3576 and frankly what I am seeing is the more up to date dvd recorders seem to have taken a leap in recording quality, obvioualy I am mainly transferring from vhs, not off air.

The TBC performance of the Philips DVD Recorder is excellent. Perhaps your JVC combo is just as good.

[theaveng]

JVC was absolutely *furious* when Panasonic defied them and agreed to mfr 4-hr/LP capable VHS decks for RCA

\

Wikipedia says that JVC's Parent Company Matsushita decided to go with an LP mode.

[theaveng]

You have two choices:
1. SIGNAL + NOISE
2. SIGNAL - NOISE

I just really learned to hate chroma errors as year went by, especially because they would compound on subsequent copies from the master. Even commercial releases had a lot of chroma noise.

What advice do you have for someone who doesn't mind chroma noise? (i.e. color blind) Which VCR would be best?

[orsetto]

JVC was absolutely *furious* when Panasonic defied them and agreed to mfr 4-hr/LP capable VHS decks for RCA

Wikipedia says that JVC's Parent Company Matsushita decided to go with an LP mode.

JVC was quite a bit more independent of Matsushita back in 1978, and they held the patents to VHS. Whatever contractual loophole Matsushita exploited to land the RCA account, it royally pissed off JVC and made them lose face, especially because the LP speed was literally a hack job without the slightest engineering effort expended to optimize it. At the time JVC seriously prided themselves on their reputation for excellence: while no one in America gave a damn, in Japan it was quite the tempest in a teapot. Even worse because every mfr in Asia knew that Sony had earlier refused to kiss RCA's ass and offer the lousy LP speed. It was an embarassment for JVC to be seen as caving while Sony stuck to the high ground. (Obviously Matsushita made the correct business decision and Sony was colossally stupid, but hindsight is 20/20.)

What advice do you have for someone who doesn't mind chroma noise? (i.e. color blind) Which VCR would be best?

You can be colorblind and still see chroma noise: it appears as distracting shimmers and black dropouts and the illusion of static objects being in motion. As I've debated at length myself, a *little* chroma noise traded against a gain in detail is occasionally a good compromise, and can be accomplished with a better-than-average but still ordinary VCR. Look for a 1997-1999 Panasonic, Quasar or GE (all are identical) or Sharp. Or if you see a good price, a semi-pro Panasonic AG series can be an excellent bargain: best buys on those are the AG2560 or an AG1970 that looks beat but still works well. Figure $25-30 on any of these except the1970 which rarely drops below $60 in working condition.

[davideck]

As I've debated at length myself, a *little* chroma noise traded against a gain in detail is occasionally a good compromise, and can be accomplished with a better-than-average but still ordinary VCR. Look for a 1997-1999 Panasonic, Quasar or GE (all are identical) or Sharp. Or if you see a good price, a semi-pro Panasonic AG series can be an excellent bargain: best buys on those are the AG2560 or an AG1970 that looks beat but still works well.

I would also recommend the Panasonic AG1970 or a JVC 6800/5800 (one of the best consumer transports and signal systems that JVC ever sold). In addition to excellent playback quality, these units are particularly good at tracking tapes from other VCRs.

The TBC performance of some DVD Recorders is obsoleting the need for VCRs with internal TBCs.

[lordsmurf]

Correct:
"You can be colorblind and still see chroma noise: it appears as distracting shimmers and black dropouts and the illusion of static objects being in motion"

[victoriabears]

Have just used the JVC M78 combo for a proper recording to edit on my pc and the disc says "LG COMBI Recording", might this suggest this is a LG rebadged?

I have never used anything from LG other than their PC Burners, which in my experience are 1st class, my friend uses LG and finds them a bit cranky.

[Scotty427]

The level of knowledge on this forum is amazing. Some of the recent posts make sense out of some of my experiences. My first VCR was a heavy-weight RCA circa 1981. I do not have a record of the model number, but it weighed a ton, however it was a console TV set-top size. It could record in LP mode, which I mostly did. The virtue of LP was the ability to record two movies on one tape. The tapes that I bought at the time were RCA tapes, but it sounds like they were manufactured by Panasonic. In those days, an RCA tape cost over $10, if I remember correctly. It was an economic decision. I have always used 120 tapes.

The next VCR was a Panasonic, which I still have stored somewhere. It has something wrong with the electronics also and won't display other than jumble. I will have to dig it out and get the model number. Many of my LP tapes were recorded on the RCA and the older Panny. Somewhere along the line I switched from RCA tapes to the better grade Maxell 120's. I am away from home for a while so I cannot check which Maxell product......"Hi-Fi XL" or something like that maybe.

Then came the PVS-4990. It made the best tapes of all, but had a very finicky load/eject mechanism which had to be repaired a couple of times on warrantee and then extended service contracts. I extended those contracts for a couple of years because it was such an expensive set when new (about $1250). I sounds like the LP mode may be my overriding issue to deal with and the Panasonic AG-1980 may well be the "least worst" solution.

Scotty427

[theaveng]

TRIVIA:

At least one of my *store-bought* tapes is recorded in Long Play (LP) mode. That was done so they could squeeze two old movies onto one tape. (I also have several store-bought tapes recorded on extended play (EP) mode - that was done to save money.) I'm kinda curious what kinds of machines were used to create these tapes. Standard 55 micron heads running at slower speeds? The quality is actually quite good, other than a slight reduction in resolution.

Back in the 80s I tried taping several RCA SelectaVision CEDs (video-records) using my old VHS VCRs. It was immediately apparent that VHS could not capture the full resolution of those records, which surprised me. Apparently those RCA video-records had a higher resolution (320 lines?) then I thought.

[orsetto]

I forget now what the exact system was on the original SP/LP Panasonic-RCA-Magnavox recorders. I *think* they slightly compromised the head gap size, the original SP-only recorders used a 58 micron gap, so I believe the SP/LP units had 38 microns. The age of SP/LP didn't last long: JVC struck back pretty quickly with the SLP/6hr speed. Of course JVC ended up screwed all over again, because they still emphasized quality over price thereby ceding the market once more to less-scrupulous mfrs. The JVC system added a second pair of 19 micron SLP heads to the existing 58 micron SP head drum, which allowed no-compromise SP recording with a bonus optimized 6-hr recording option. Initially for JVC this was a marketing disaster, as no one wanted to pay for the extra heads. Panasonic knew from its negotiations with RCA and experience selling LP recorders that Americans could care less if the picture was unwatchable, as long as the recorder was affordable and they could squeeze many hours onto a single tape. So once again they compromised with a single pair of 27 micron (approx) heads that did triple duty for SP, LP and SLP. As sales took off, the JVC four-head design eventually became available on the top Panny and RCA decks. Shortly after, the first-generation JVC four-head design disappeared entirely in favor of the Panasonic "Tech-4" combination heads, which were an engineering compromise but much cheaper to make. That design was carried on until today in nearly all consumer VCRs. (Don't even *ask* how "VHS HiFi" combines and conflicts with all this )

All these years later, we inherit all the problems of these multiple head-gap design choices as we try to transfer old tapes. The various combinations of head gap and record speed cause endless tracking and image noise issues, especially with LP because the LP-specific head design disappeared more than twenty years ago. Some time in the early 1980's, all recorders were optimized for either SLP or a combination of SP and SLP: the middle LP became the shunned barely-functional stepchild. So unless you somehow managed to preserve a 1980-vintage Panasonic or RCA, it is impossible to obtain "perfect" playback of an old LP tape (newer LP tapes are recorded using the SLP head, which brings in another set of issues.) This is one of the reasons it isn't a good idea to use a "pro" VHS or SVHS deck for DVD transfers: they generally use the SP-specific head gap, which will pick up 65% more noise from tapes recorded on the typical consumer deck, even at SP! The nearest compromise for LP is a Panasonic AG1980- it is far from perfect but its "flaws" are better matched to LP playback than most other modern-day machines.

Re "pre-recorded" LP tapes from Goodtimes Home Video, etc: these were mfr'd in two ways- either on banks of consumer-grade VCRs at the LP speed, or by a mass-production "contact printer" that sandwiched the LP master tape against endless reels of blank tape, using a specialized magnet to directly transfer the video between the two tape layers. LP pre-rec tapes came out long after LP was bypassed as a popular recording speed, so the tracking issues would be similar to home-recorded LP tapes of the same vintage (compromised SLP-sized LP tracks).

[lordsmurf]

Don't forget Toshiba 6-head decks.

[orsetto]

Yes, some of the Toshibas were extraordinary. Although when shopping these second hand, it pays to know which models are the really good ones. Like every other mfr, Toshiba had some models or model years that were great and some that were mediocre. For example, the M782 of 1996 has an amazing DNR system that arguably betters the JVC 9911 and Panasonic 1980 in some respects. But go one step down to the less expensive identical model without the DNR, and you get one helluva grainy unusable image. And so it goes, year to year, model to model. Research model numbers and features carefully before spending serious cash on any VCR.

[Scotty427]

I dug up the model number of an older Panasonic VCR that I used a lot to record many of my older tapes before buying the PVS-4990 in Nov, 1990. It is a model PV-1642 and I still have it, but it does not play as it should. The picture is screwed. It does not have S-video capability. It was a pretty good unit for prior to S-video. Never had a problem with it for years. It had a very reliable load/eject mechanism. After I bought the -4990, I used the -1642 to play tapes into the -4990 to dup. Therefore, even though I recorded tapes on the -4990 since 1990, the tapes were played into it using the -1642. Anyone know anything about the PV-1642? Would it be worth trying to get it repaired? It was manufactured in Nov. 1986.

My first 37 tapes are RCA VK250 "SelectaVision." The next 13 are RCA T120 Hi-Fi Stereo tapes; the next 14 are RCA T-120 SHG (Super High Grade) Hi-Fi Stereo. Then I switched to Maxell. I have 60 Maxell XL Hi Fi tapes; 52 Maxell XL Hi Fi Professional Grade tapes; 8 Maxell P/I Plus tapes, and 2 Maxell Advanced Hi Fi tapes. There are a couple of other dogs and cats, but the foregoing is the preponderance of what I have, starting in 1981 with the RCA VK 250 tapes. All these tapes are 120's and are NON-Svideo. So, you can see that most of my tapes were made using Maxell products. How do these tapes stack up for transferring to DVD?

Thanks,

Scotty427

[orsetto]

Those are all passable mid-range blank tapes, shouldn't be any issues relating to "bad" shells or rotting adhesive or anything. RCA sourced its tapes from Panasonic at first, then from some other decent OEM thruout the 80s and early 90s. By the late 90s it was a cheap bargain brand but still not half-bad. Maxell has been pretty consistent over the years, like all brands the older they are the better they are but even the current ones are passable.

Your Panasonic 1642 is probably not worth fixing. Repairs that involve anything more than a cleaning run a minimum $50 and up, assuming no spare parts are needed because there aren't any for that model. You might try looking for the same or similar model on Craigs List or eBay, there are still tons of them being offered by people as they retire or move and need to clear their homes out. Otherwise the VCR advice we all pitched in with earlier still applies.

[lordsmurf]

Maxell formulas seem to have changed in about 2000, the modern Maxell tapes are garbage compared to the older Gold and HiFi from the 80s and 90s. Even the older Silver were better. Or the low-grade Bronze ones seemed to be better than the newest "premium" ones Maxell has available in the past 7-8 years.

Nothing beats a good TDK EHG or JVC EX tape, when talking about VHS. Even some of the so-called "professional" or "broadcast" tapes look like grainy desaturated crap against the better TDK and JVC tapes.