What current recorders have flexible/incremental recording?

[Bix]

It's new and the Toshiba let me register for their warranty accepting the serial number and whatnot, it should be fine. Worst case scenario, I can return it. No reason for you to troll me with a mean-spirited "Gotcha!" post.

[samijubal]

It could happen with any recorder. You've had problems with yours.

Yes but I bought mine brand new and had great success with it until I wore out the burner.

Buying something used only to have it not work right-off-the-bat when other solutions exist that are brand new ... well I think you get my point.

The Toshiba units of the past were good but getting old now. The Pioneer units are as good (in some respects better) and can still be bought brand new with the same functionality as years past. All the Toshiba models have been junk now for the last 3 generations. In short you can't buy a new Toshiba that performs as good as the models you are talking about so why risk it with old equipment that is most likely well used or "reconditioned"?

Yeah sure Pioneer left the USA when it comes to DVD recorders but it is very easy to import the Asian models (brand new) or the Canadian models (brand new) and they both do NTSC (the Asian units also do PAL). They also are damn fine if not the best quality DVD recorders available today and do incremental bitrate recording.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

The Toshiba recorders we bought are new, not used. Since he was able to register the recorder with Toshiba that's better than you can do buying a Pioneer in the U.S. Canadian models bought in the U.S. have no warranty neither do recorders bought from non-authorized dealers.

[samijubal]

It's new and the Toshiba let me register for their warranty accepting the serial number and whatnot, it should be fine. Worst case scenario, I can return it. No reason for you to troll me with a mean-spirited "Gotcha!" post.

Are you sending it in to be repaired or taking it to a service center or what?

[Bix]

I'll have to be sending it in I believe since service centers don't do DVD recorders (this goes for several manufacturers).

I'll have a slight delay since they have to contact the eBay seller to verify it wasn't used (and the seller has no reason not to, better this than returning it for a refund, plus I believe them when they say it's new open box since their feedback's excellent), but it looks like everything will go smoothly.

[samijubal]

I'll have to be sending it in I believe since service centers don't do DVD recorders (this goes for several manufacturers).

I'll have a slight delay since they have to contact the eBay seller to verify it wasn't used (and the seller has no reason not to, better this than returning it for a refund, plus I believe them when they say it's new open box since their feedback's excellent), but it looks like everything will go smoothly.

It was open box? I thought you bought from the same guy I did. Mine said new.

[Bix]

New Open Box. Meaning it was probably a display unit at some point.

I got mine from 6th Floor LLC. I never saw yours, I presumed it was listed after I bought mine.

It turned out there was a hard drive error code so I figure it's a blessing in disguise: I get a new hard drive while the labor part of the warranty is still valid.

[samijubal]

I bought mine on Thursday. The guy I bought it from sold another one for $219, I thought you bought that one.

Is 6th Floor a dealer? Is that why it's got the warranty?

[Bix]

6th floor seems to just be a random mid upper level eBay seller. Toshiba explained to me that even if they aren't an authorized dealer or whatever, the warranty is still valid as long as the seller confirms to them that the recorder was new.

This is a refreshing change from my past experiences with authorized dealer nonsense:

- When I got an iPod from FreeiPods and it had issues, the warranty was artificially shortened because the date that FreeiPods purchased it was recognized as the start of the warranty.
- When I bought a brand new "old stock" Go Video SDV-650 SVHS VCR (JVC 9800 "clone") on eBay, there was no warranty from Go Video because of the authorized reseller crap.

It's good to see a company take a more realistic stance in 2008 with how commerce has changed.

[samijubal]

Good to hear they are going to honor the warranty. I was going to buy an extended warranty but with the year from Toshiba and the extra year for using a credit card, I doubt I will.

Edit:
Looking at the warranty it's only 90 days labor. I guess I will be buying an extended warranty.

[Bix]

Toshiba lied to me, will return and got an official refurb elsewhere. Gr.

[orsetto]

Honestly, THIS is why I do not recommend anyone rush out blindly to buy a long-discontinued Toshiba just because they heard it "was the best recorder ever made". I keep getting attacked by Toshiba users when I say this, but they are misunderstanding me: I'm not against Toshiba per se, I agree they were "the best". That isn't the point. Many things that are "the best" are also a total effing pain in terms of practical use and aging. Leica makes the finest 35mm film cameras, they are also insanely overpriced and require a startling amount of regular servicing considering the price and reputation, which many well-heeled camera buffs aren't aware of when they buy them. Ditto the Toshiba DVRs: when they were new, DVD/HDD Toshibas were worth the additional risks: exchanges and service were easily available. Now that they're old and discontinued, they are a rotten risk EXCEPT for existing owners who are skilled and can deal with the potential issues.

Anyone serious about wanting a used Toshiba DVD/HDD needs to understand you have at LEAST a 50/50 chance the unit will arrive dysfunctional in some way. They can be repaired, often as DIY, but you MUST factor in possible immediate repair costs when you shop these units. Do not pay huge sums, anything over $200 is too much unless you are completely familiar with servicing them and already have the parts. Also, beware anything listed as "factory refurbished": at this point it is *extremely* unlikely there are any true, sealed "factory" refurbs floating around out there. Any that still existed when these were discontinued were snapped up almost immediately by desperate Toshiba fans three years ago. Unless the listing is actually from Toshiba itself, assume its bullsh*t and the unit is simply "used". Toshiba USA got plenty burned by these when they were current, so they're in no mood now to honor any implied "warranties" on random refurbs.

Like the equally flakey high-performance JVC recorders of the same vintage, older Toshibas can produce amazing results in the hands of dedicated hobbyists who can keep them running properly and understand their personalities. But they are not for the new hobbyist or casual user: those people are better off with a Pioneer, Panasonic or Phillips. These units may not be quite up to the PQ of a Toshiba, or have as flexible authoring options, but they can still be bought new and are inherently more reliable. Bear in mind you are limited by the source you are recording: the "extra quality" of a Toshiba can narrow to a very small difference in the real world of cable compression and VHS tape transfers.

Again, this is not a knock to Toshiba: all mfrs have issues and at some time or other have a major run of flakiness. And nearly everything I've just said applies just as well to any other brand of DVR thats more than a year old: assume it will arrive with some kind of issue, even if its just from shipping. I'm just saying, be an informed buyer when you shop for a used machine. I'm actually very sorry Toshiba left the market, had the machines sold well Toshiba would have had time to refine the bugs out and they would be the premium recorders of today. As things stand, a used older one can accomplish tasks no other recorder can do BUT you need to be aware of the gotchas and be prepared for immediate and then occasional maintenance. Think of a Toshiba DVR as a mid-1970s Ferrari.

[samijubal]

50/50 chance is total crap. I've bought about 7 Toshiba recorders on ebay, I've yet to get one that every function of the recorder didn't work. If you're going to knock something at least get your facts right. Unless you've bought a dozen of them and got 6 or more bad you have no idea the percentage of bad to good.

I wouldn't buy any 2 or 3 year old recorder no matter what the brand, they just don't last long enough to buy a recorder that old. That said, new Toshiba recorders can still be found if someone is willing to do a little looking around. I just bought a new XS35 last week for $199. That simply can't be beat. I can get a 3 year warranty for $24 bringing the total with warranty to $223. Show me a better deal.

[orsetto]

I do not make assumptions about you, please don't make them about me. I owned an electronics/video store for 21 years and am a maniac for this hobby- I've owned nearly 50 different VCRs and have gone thru some 20 different DVD recorders. I purchased three Toshibas myself on eBay over the last few years: a refurbed TiVO-equipped model, the 35, and the 55. Each arrived DOA or failed within weeks for different reasons. I have several friends who are also video nuts who returned/exchanged them when they were new or have had to repair later eBay purchases. Their rave reviews and incredible DVDs are what convinced me to keep trying with Toshiba, but I gave up before I finally found the info on how to keep them working. By then I had gotten pretty good at servicing Pioneers and decided to stick to what I knew. I was running a suite of 10 JVC units which gave me fits for a year, and I got rid of those, too. For me, "predictable but average" beats "flakey but phenomenal", others have different priorities.

I do not deny your experience, but mine differs radically. All second-hand recorders that require shipping are a risk, some more than others. In today's disposable world, "the best" is a relative concept.

[Bix]

Before ordering the refurb, I asked the Toshiba supervisor who called me (and let me know the previous, lower level rep lied to me) if the refurb seller was a legit reseller with legit refurbs and if it would be warrantied. He looked them up and assured me that they are and it will be. The seller is the one who has them stocked both through their own domain (can be found by searching for RD-XS35 at Froogle/Google Shopping) and eBay (searching for RD-XS35 there), using the same name for the website and their eBay account.

Judging by what I've learned, a refurb is probably better than a new one.

[samijubal]

I'd disagree about the refurb for one reason, I can buy a 3 year warranty on a new one that's only one year on a used or refurb. I use my recorders a lot and have yet to get 3 years out of one except the first one I ever bought.

[Bix]

I'd disagree about the refurb for one reason, I can buy a 3 year warranty on a new one that's only one year on a used or refurb. I use my recorders a lot and have yet to get 3 years out of one except the first one I ever bought.

Your credit card company may offer a longer optional extended warranty than Squaretrade.

[samijubal]

I do not make assumptions about you, please don't make them about me. I owned an electronics/video store for 21 years and am a maniac for this hobby- I've owned nearly 50 different VCRs and have gone thru some 20 different DVD recorders. I purchased three Toshibas myself on eBay over the last few years: a refurbed TiVO-equipped model, the 35, and the 55. Each arrived DOA or failed within weeks for different reasons. I have several friends who are also video nuts who returned/exchanged them when they were new or have had to repair later eBay purchases. Their rave reviews and incredible DVDs are what convinced me to keep trying with Toshiba, but I gave up before I finally found the info on how to keep them working. By then I had gotten pretty good at servicing Pioneers and decided to stick to what I knew. I was running a suite of 10 JVC units which gave me fits for a year, and I got rid of those, too. For me, "predictable but average" beats "flakey but phenomenal", others have different priorities.

I do not deny your experience, but mine differs radically. All second-hand recorders that require shipping are a risk, some more than others. In today's disposable world, "the best" is a relative concept.

Wel,l I'm a fanatic for the best PQ possible and that's Toshiba. In 2 1/2+ years of heavy use of Toshibas I've had one that I bought used on ebay die. Like I said before they can still be bought new and a 3 year warranty can be bought very cheap with a new recorder. Once you've used a Toshiba with a high quality source nothing else will do. I'll never use anything else again.

[samijubal]

I'd disagree about the refurb for one reason, I can buy a 3 year warranty on a new one that's only one year on a used or refurb. I use my recorders a lot and have yet to get 3 years out of one except the first one I ever bought.

Your credit card company may offer a longer optional extended warranty than Squaretrade.

Credit card companies typically double the manufacterer's warranty up to one year. Since there's no manufacterer's warranty there wouldn't be anything through the credit card. I always purchase all electronics with a credit card to get the warranty doubled. I've never had to use the extra warranty yet but it doesn't hurt to have it, you never know.

[Bix]

I'd disagree about the refurb for one reason, I can buy a 3 year warranty on a new one that's only one year on a used or refurb. I use my recorders a lot and have yet to get 3 years out of one except the first one I ever bought.

Your credit card company may offer a longer optional extended warranty than Squaretrade.

Credit card companies typically double the manufacterer's warranty up to one year. Since there's no manufacterer's warranty there wouldn't be anything through the credit card. I always purchase all electronics with a credit card to get the warranty doubled. I've never had to use the extra warranty yet but it doesn't hurt to have it, you never know.

Whoops, I meant for the manufacturers warranty on the refurbs since we were discussing both.

Also, my point earlier about refurbs being better is that they probably have replacement drives better than the iffy ones in the original units.

[samijubal]

I finally got my recorder today. Everything seems fine. I haven't tried the DVD drive yet but I recorded to the HDD.

[TBoneit]

The Thing to remember about a factory refurb anything is what factory?

IOWs I could setup a workshop in a corner of my basement and also setup a small company and that corner of my basement would be my factory for refurbishing whatever. I could then stick a label that says factory refurb unit on the box.

Ask what factory, the manufacturer or ..... ?

[Bix]

Umm...there's no way that's how it works.

As I explained earlier, the supervisor at Toshiba confirmed that they are an authorized seller with legitimately refurbished units with legtimate Toshiba warranties.

If the company certifies it for a new warranty, I'm guessing that it doesn't involve a shady dude jabbing screwdrivers indescriminately into the machines in his basement.

[TBoneit]

Yes for your particular case it sounds legitimate, But how many others are buying factory refurbs and don't realize it doesn't mean manufacturers factory unless it says so.

I've done repair work on Portable DVD players that were under sellers warranty, They were used for warranty replacements not sold as factory refurbs however. The manufacturer shipped us New parts. Boards, optical drives etc. Were they as good as new? Not all new parts, only bad parts were replaced. We did them on the side to keep a cash flow when the computer repair business was slow.

[Seeker47]

[Post from 7/23/08]

Currently the most available model is last years 450, which is identical to this years 460 (except the new one adds USB and DV front panel inputs for cameras). The 450 has a 160GB hard drive, an excellent Sony-supplied burner that will record to plus, minus and RAM media equally well, HDMI output and a superb editing interface. "Open-box" units including the remote and manual typically sell between $200-325 delivered to USA on eBay, prices fluctuate with demand week to week.

Just an update note, but it is looking like the supply of leftover Canadian 450s may have finally dried up, as it is the 460s that now show up on eBay -- when you can find them.

I'm still looking around for an older post of yours where you enumerated the relative vices and virtues of many Pioneer DVDR models in great detail. I should have saved it at the time, for reference.
I believe the 450 was your top overall pick, unless someone was going to go for a used 640 in great condition.

[orsetto]

I'm flattered that you remember that old post, seeker47: that was actually my first post here ! I had a hard time tracking it down, but finally located it for you on page one of the thread titled "Recommendation Request: LG vs Pioneer vs Panasonic" (sorry, I can't figure out how to embed direct links). Re the 450, it was a best buy for a few months when supply outpaced demand and it sold for under $250. But the new 460 is actually more capable with its USB/DV ports and uses more modern SATA hard drive which may be easier to find in future than EIDE. Prices right now are about $300-325 delivered stateside for newish, open box CostCo Canada returns resold by various liquidators on the web.

[samijubal]

You don't have to search for posts, especially the first one. On the main forum screen with the forum index click "view your posts" on the right side and all your posts will be there. Finding the first one isn't very hard.

[p_l]

(sorry, I can't figure out how to embed direct links)

When you post a reply, click URL, paste your link, then click on Close Tags. https://forum.videohelp.com/topic354136-30.html#1902898

For a link from text, highlight your text, click URL, then add an = sign after the [urlbut before the closing bracket] and paste your URL right between the = sign and the closing bracket. Leave no spaces.

[orsetto]

Thanks for the tip, samijubal: I did try that first, but had a problem tracking down the actual thread the post was in by name (which of course wasn't "Pioneer recorders": that would have been too easy). I remembered it as my first post but it got bumped up on the displayed thread list and a later thread got pushed down, so things were a little off. seeker47 has an amazing ability to recall peoples older posts: probably better recall than their writers!

Many thanks also to p_l for the embedding instructions: I've been looking for them for months but seemed to have a blind spot when I checked the FAQs.