I fit 2 hours of video on one 74min CD, no lies, please read

[hitechjunkie]

(before the mods close this thread too!)

funny stuff, sean! keep it up!

[bilbogod]

In my opinion downsampling the audio to 41000Hz from 48 ruins it for my dvd player. I remember reading posts in the past where people have referred to"metallic whistle" in the high frequecies. As soon as I stopped downsampling the sound was crystal clear. Why the hell ahouldn't this work for most people. After all dvd uses 48 so whats the point in changing it?? Technically this must make it an xvcd.
Can someone please explain in simple English why dvd players that do not support xvcd are allowing us to play them after having demuxed and muxed through the vcd non std stream function in TMPGenc??

[Corta2863]

Hey bilbogod, does keeping the sample rate at 48khz increase encoding time if the source is at 48khz? For the time being I'm going to keep going down too 44.1khz because my crappy computer in my bedroom can only play up to 44.1khz.(by the way, has anybody tried running a vcd on a pentium 1 63MHZ overdrive? To save you time it doesn't it doesn't like 23.97 FPS, it like's 2 FPS )

Also I think the reason dvd players that don't support xvcd play 48khz vcds because it basically follows the standards for video, not audio. And doesn't the vcd standard say the audio has to be 224kbps? But most players that don't support xvcd support 128kbps audio. So I think most players are mainly concerned about video, not so much the audio standard. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have no way of confirming this, just my little theory, )

Sean, dig a whole, jump in it cover yourself up with the dirt. Stay there for a few days(you might actually grow up!!!) Come out and be mature.

[bilbogod]

Not too sure about the difference in encoding time. Can't say I've really noticed any difference. If anything its 1 less stage for it to have to go through.
My xvcd query was really relating to this whole process of fitting more than 80 mins on 1 cd. I have an Eclipse 695 which states that it is not Xvcd compatible, yet when demux and then remuxing through the non-st'd mpeg1 setting in TMPGenc its happy to accept a lot more. Any clues anyone??
Btw - Cyberimage26 is gonna have a cardiac when he sees all of the extra replies that this topic is getting

[Sefy]

Guys, please, keep it at a eucational level, cursing and whatever is really not getting anyone anywhere, it's not helping, and it's just creating a bad mood on the forums, no need for it.

I'll agree with Sean that if someone takes your guide and uses it without even giving proper credit to the original writer is unfair and out right rude, an author of anything (programs/guides...) should get the proper credits on his work, especialy when it's free work.

Haven't anyone noticed in the All-In-One guide I specificly email the authors of the programs and ask for their permission, and when they give me their permission, for one, it makes them happy cause they are finally being given appriciation to their work, and they do a hard work, and all we do is complain that this doesn't work or that doesn't work, and they are also greateful for a person asking for their permission and doesn't just leech off their program, and tell you what, it also makes me feel better to get permission, then just straight out use a program without the writers agreement.

But, what I don't mind is, if someone has asked for permission, they can use my guide and make updates and fixes to it if they find something they can improve, that's how we learn new things from each other, by sharing.

If someone wants to improve on my guide, heck, just ask me, and i'll give you the source HTML and all the images for it, as long as you give me the proper credit for being the one who did the hard work on it in the first place, I don't care, but I won't agree for someone selling my guide for any kind of profit, if anyone deserves profit, it's all those authors who give us the free programs!

[adam]

Most dvd players dont have a problem playing 48kHz svcds but I know for a fact some do, and of course older pc sound cards can't play them correctly either. The reason you got a metallic sound when downsampling to 44100 is because of TMPGenc's rate converter, I assume you used TMPGenc. This is a common bug and is easily fixed by using an external rate converter. SSRC (shibach encoder) is probably the most popular.

The human ear cannot distinguish the difference between 48kHz and 44100kHz. Any percieved difference can only be caused by an inferior conversion method, the TMPGenc bug for example. The ONLY reason to use 48kHZ is to save the time taken to downsample. There is literally no perceivable quality difference and to answer another person's question the encoding time is the same. If you want to guarantee compliance on all svcd players then you should always downsample to 44100kHz as long as you DONT use TMPGenc to do it.

[cybermage26]

what the hell? i hope u are not trying to intentionally piss me offa nd mock what i do!!!!

This is almost the same method as i made in my vcd-x guide.

Dude everyone has heard ALOT of talk from you, with out much proof. I have never even heard of your VCD-X guide. I just through this template together in half an hour ok? I know some settings were wrong, but when I realised it I couldnt be bothered fixing it and sending to Truman again.

You say you have been testing all this video encoding stuff etc for over a year now and you know the best methods etc, then I agree that you should post something on the web.

My template works, plain and simple, I put it together because I saw how people wanted to know a way of fitting a whole movie onto a CD in your threads, but you never told them. This works fine for me, I have seen your clips, they are ok, nothing spectacular, every single time I have asked for a sample clip you always make excuses as why the quality isnt that good and how you can do better but you havent.

I might yet update my template, but only for personal use. Which is what you have seemed to be doing. You started out a thread saying that you were going to give people your guide and no one got to see it. As the days roll on you just seem to be making more enemies. And to think I stuck up for you when people were calling you a 13 year old lamer.

[Sefy]

What do you guys get for abusing the english language ?
Isi t some sort of personal satisfaction ? haven't you had enough fun when me and speedy went at it ? sure it's fun for awhile, but it gets boring, and no one ever really wins, and nothing good ever comes out of it, so what's the point ? each has their own opinions and views on things, and I rather doubt we will change each other, we are all stubborn here

[sean madison]

I'll say this one more time which has been the 4th time today!!!!

VCDHELP WILL NEVER GET MY GUIDES BECAUSE ONE FO THE MODS REFUSED TO LET ME SEND IT(VCD AND SVCD GUIDES) SO I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE MY WAY TO SEND IT HERE.

If one more person tells me to post it here, i will no longer distribute it PERIOD.

You know how to get it plain and simple
AIM, msn or email

[Tired of the Bull]

Sean,

I don't see your MSN in your profile. I'd like to check out your guides.

[cybermage26]

If one more person tells me to post it here, i will no longer distribute it PERIOD.

Im not asking you to post it here. Im asking you to post it on the WEB, find a free space provider and upload it.

[Kdiddy]

If one more person tells me to post it here, i will no longer distribute it PERIOD.

ouch!!..cant you just see VCD/SVCD hearts all across the whole world breaking??, the collapse of civilization as we know it, chaos in the streets, starving children, oooo please O' Great Sean "Shizzon" Madison a.k.a The Video Performance Master, please bless us simple pleebs with your all knowledgable template so that the earth will continue rotate on its axis correctly and all will remain right & just in this society of ours for how are we ever to exist without it.

[cybermage26]

L L

[bilbogod]

Hey Cyberimage26 I've done it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Platoon (1hr 54mins) - 2 x Flask Mpeg encodes to Divx. One at 2100 kbs ave bitrate(fast motion codec) and the other at 416 kbs (low motion codec). Resolution was set at 640 x 352 and although using an 80 min cd I elected for a total file size of 650Mb . Both were blended together through a utility called "Makefilm" available on Divx - Digest.com and encoded into 1 file which was 675MB total size. I used Virtual Dub to edit the end credits (these are nearly always white lettering on a black background) to compress the end credits down from 60Mb+ to a measly 2Mb!! I then used your templates which gave me a total mpeg filesize of 694Mb. This upped to 727Mb when burnt through Nero onto 1 cd.
IMHO the quality was extremely good all things considered. However I did set myself 1 criteria and that was weather it would fool my nextdoor neighbour.

[bilbogod]

Whilst there seemed to be little to no loss from the DivX source itself, the DivX I created was not really as good as it needed to be,
there are places where the transition between the low motion and the fast motion codec have left blocks. Still I'm gonna try to create the perfect DivX and give it another shot. As far as the audio being slightly metallic is concerned this is simple to remedy. Anyone who uses these templates should be using an external audio encoder. Cheers for now

[bilbogod]

I'd be interested to see what the mods like Sefy make of it ??? Any feedback guys ??

[hitechjunkie]

The human ear cannot distinguish the difference between 48kHz and 44100kHz.

ur talking about the average human ear. u should know by now that the members here at vcdhelp are all superhuman and all have superhuman senses, "aw sh*t! i saw three macroblocks in that 90 minute mpeg. i gotta refine my template again and again and again until it is perfect!!!"

[T.J. McCormick]

I'm 57 years old, a retired fire captain and I've been around the world a couple of times. One thing I've learned is that you always have flamers like the one above. It almost always stems from their lack of ability and confidence. To protect their egos, they try to make others look bad so they'll look better. I have no comprehension of what you're talking about as I'm a "newbie" and still trying to figure out what TEMPenc does and why I need it. The point is.... I'm glad you accomplished your goal and are happy with the results.

[Sefy]

hitechjunkie, i'm not SuperHuman (although I wish I was!) and i've got not super hearing, and although I've recently started encoding my movies from 44.1 to 48k is not cause I can hear any diffrence (for crying out loud, I only got a Dolby Pro-Logic system!), but the reason I did it was for two actually:

1) I noticed no increase in file size, so why not use it ?
2) In the future, to author VCD on a DVD media, Audio must be 48khz.

And i'm sure everyone would agree that RE-Encoding the Audio from 44.1khz to 48khz WILL reduce the audio quality because of the re-encoding, even if you are upping the quality.

CyberMage gave me the Templates, and I will test them and just give my POV, it isn't a judgment, it will just be what I think of it.

[cybermage26]

Hey Cyberimage26 I've done it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMHO the quality was extremely good all things considered.

Great to HEAR!! Haha coool, glad you liked it.

I hope Sefy has some luck with my templates too and can help it progress into something better with his expert opinions :P ..

Keep us up to date.

[natcom]

well i most say your temple is good but for dvd rips i like useding my new temple i have fit 2.03 hr one 80 min cd file size only 675 mb and the movie look about the same as the dvd so if you want the best quality used 2 pass vbr not cq_vbr and used TMPGEnc 2.52 plus

[hitechjunkie]

hitechjunkie, i'm not SuperHuman (although I wish I was!) and i've got not super hearing, and although I've recently started encoding my movies from 44.1 to 48k is not cause I can hear any diffrence (for crying out loud, I only got a Dolby Pro-Logic system!), but the reason I did it was for two actually:

1) I noticed no increase in file size, so why not use it ?
2) In the future, to author VCD on a DVD media, Audio must be 48khz.

And i'm sure everyone would agree that RE-Encoding the Audio from 44.1khz to 48khz WILL reduce the audio quality because of the re-encoding, even if you are upping the quality.

CyberMage gave me the Templates, and I will test them and just give my POV, it isn't a judgment, it will just be what I think of it.

sefy (and anyone else reading my post), i was only kidding - u know that, rite?

[Sefy]

Relax, you should know me better then that
I was just naming the reasons why I use 48k, i'm not an ultimate quality person, heck, I use VCD's!

[adam]

The human ear cannot distinguish the difference between 48kHz and 44100kHz.

ur talking about the average human ear. u should know by now that the members here at vcdhelp are all superhuman and all have superhuman senses, "aw sh*t! i saw three macroblocks in that 90 minute mpeg. i gotta refine my template again and again and again until it is perfect!!!"

Actually I am talking about all humans here. There have been studies done and even the most critical ear cannot percieve any differences. NO human can distinguish between 48kHz and 44100kHz. But I do agree with your sentiment, I know I am guilty of overanalyzing every encode that I do.

[hitechjunkie]

so adam, u got any templates u wanna IM me?

[vitualis]

Actually, I'm of the opinion that even the average human ear can hear the difference between 48 kHz sample audio compared to 44.1 kHz audio.

It is true that there is absolutely no evidence that you can hear the difference anything above 20 odd kHz (the frequency), but 48 kHz audio provides more than just high frequency benefits.

At 48 kHz, the (for the lack of a better term -- I'm not a sound engineer) temporal precision of the audio is higher. What I mean is, the tiny timing differences of each minutia of audio.

44.1 kHz audio only allows "temporal precision" of about 22 microseconds.

The human ear although it cannot physiologically pick up frequencies about about 20 kHz (in a child), can however distinguish audio to absolutely amazing degrees of "temporal precision" (well, actually the brain can rather than the ear). This is what gives us our ability to detect the direction a sound is coming from even though we only have two ears.

48 kHz audio with its greater "temporal precision" gives the audio more "ambience" as if you were "there".

Presumably, this is why ?96 kHz audio sounds even better.

Regards.

[bilbogod]

UPDATE...... Finally done it. Tried to report back on this approx 2 days ago but the site was down
Ok I never believed it would really be possible but I've fufilled my criteria. I've got a copy of Platoon onto 1 cd (1hr 54 mins) that would fool Joe Average into thinking it was a regular vhs. Total file size 687 Mb. If anyone wants to take a gander I'll shove it into my shared folder on Morpheus. I dont have any webspace and have never set up any before.... Should be in there in about 10 mins time under the file name PLATOONED
Only thing that needs sorting is the audio, still got a slight metallic squeek to it at the mo..... Think I'm gonna try someone elses template next to see how they compare.
For anyone who's interested I created the DivX source using a program called "Fairuse". Pretty nifty little program that a child of three could configure, although its a little slow. Tweleve hours conversion time on a 1.2Ghz AMD Athlon.....

[cybermage26]

Great to hear ... I am trying to find the clip at the moment.

[bilbogod]

ok Morpheus is probably a crap way for people to try to find something. God only knows how many servers thay have got. Ive upped the sound quality now to 224 kbps so total file size is 759MB. I have a 1 min clip (Cyberimage26's template) which if anyone would care to humour me by hosting it on their website for people to view, that would be great. Thanx.
p.s. 1min clip is 8.12Mb and I'm on 56k modem (sob!)

[cybermage26]

talk to truman, thats how I got my clip uploaded.