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  1. Member
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    I have a variety of programs and i'm still trying to figure out the best combination as well, here is what i have found with the hf10 so far... Figured i'd round all this up into one thread/post at this point:


    Pinnacle 12:
    **Bluray type; Mpeg2 image type.. closest match to original mts off camcorder
    **AVCHD, either image type: some pixelation in pans, not visible in the original
    ***No smart rendering or transcoding, always have to render
    **1 min video clip on quad core 2.4ghz took 11m 19sec to render the AVCHD type (translates into 11 hours per 1 hour of video if recoding)
    **Full ability to have transitions and effects of course

    Sony Vegas 8.0b:
    **Output to bluray: only option here that matches original is the mediaconcept 25mbps type (pan test showed maybe slightly more artifacts than the original, maybe, almost as nice as the pinnacle bluray mpeg or the nero 8 mpeg
    **Render AS: AVC (Mainconcept), custom frame size to 1920x1080, output to mp4 is the only way to make render as, the same resolution
    **Full ability to have transitions and effects of course



    DVDArchitect 5.0:
    ** Can select multiple m2ts files
    **If using the mp4 from Sony Vegas, it wants to recode the whole video (the avc mainconcept is showing as not compliant for some reason) which took 17minutes to complete
    **if using original m2ts (renamed files), or any m2ts, no recode needed, even with menu's
    **from what I can see this is very basic, menu’s only, with some fancy buttons you can add, no transitions or effects (?)

    Nero Vision 8.0:
    ** can select multiple (m2ts) files at once
    **if using the mp4 from vegas render as, it does NOT need to recode the video, done in 3 min 20 seconds (on the quad core 2.4ghz)
    **for comparison, using original m2ts file, time to produce bluray image is about 6 minutes on a dual core 1.86 ghz; if using mpeg4, it says it would take about 12-14 minutes on dual core;
    **if EDITING video, trimming video, adding menus.. NO recode needed AGAIN!
    **If adding transitions.. no full recode needed again
    **Best output option so far: Bluray, mpeg2 (at 17mbps), whereas the avchd only goes to 14mbps and showed pixelation like Pinnacle did

    *Downside to this mpeg format is that it takes up more space;

    **VirtualDubMod with avisynth may be another editing alternative to avoid recoding, but I couldn’t figure that one out as easily..


    At this point i havent found any other render options in Vegas, that could be used in Architect to prevent recoding.. this is my goal.. i'd like to just use these two programs, having the transitions done in Vegas.. It seems the only render as option in vegas is the main concept avc, and architect finds it to not be compliant and wants a recode..

    But for now, unless someone can tell me a different way.. it sounds like actually, for simple edits and transitions, Nero 8 Vision is best and quickest.. i never thought i'd say that, but even with transitions, no recode is needed.

    If I want to get real fancy, I would have to use Pinnacle and choose the Bluray option on the first screen, then under image type the mpeg2, as it gave the best picture as far as i know..

    Not sure on the compatibility on these "formats" with bluray players.. i'm guessing either should be fine on the average at least, long term this will stream off my htpc in the future.

    Also.. the canon hf10 is supposed to be 60i, but media info reports 29.970 fps, this confuses me.. is this their version of 60i (notation?).. In pinnacle 12, i guess i wouldnt want the option for progressive recoding, since the original isnt progressive? If i had used 30p instead of 60i.. what would media info show as the fps.. or is 30p and 60i the same on this camcorder?

    **Finally.. i have some mov (mpeg) files that are 720p 30p from my panasonic dmc-tz5 camera.. if i mix those mov files with the 60i from the camcorder, will this make for the wrong frame rate for one or the other.. and also.. if i shoot at 24p on the canon and then at 60i on the same set.. i guess i couldnt mix the two in an editor and output that result.. id want to break them up onto different m2ts files at least?

    Thanks
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    (Long)...

    UPDATED again, 7/21/2008

    Original test file in most cases is a 1m 23second m2ts file that is 29.970 fps, (60i on the canon hf10 camcorder), 159mb in size with a 2 channel ac-3 256kbps track; Some cases I used a 23 second clip, see notes;
    In all cases the OS is Vista x64; The dual core machine is a 1.86ghz (1033 fsb) Dual Core intel chip on a P5N-T deluxe Asus board with 1066 DDR2 ram, while the quad core is a t3400 dell with a 2.4ghz (1033 fsb) 800mhz ram;


    Pinnacle 12:
    **Bluray type; Mpeg2 image type.. closest match to original mts off camcorder
    **AVCHD, either image type: some pixelation in pans, not visible in the original
    ***No smart rendering or transcoding, always have to render
    **1 min 23sec video clip on quad core 2.4ghz took 11m 19sec to render the AVCHD type (translates into 11 hours per 1 hour of video if recoding)
    **Full ability to have transitions and effects of course
    **1m 23sec video clip on dual core 1.86ghz took 29m 40seconds to render the AVCHD type and image type (with 1 menu), playback in Magnavox WORKED fine with the menu (158mb, original was 159mb) however, noticeable degradation/pixilation from the original as expected with this format; on dual core this is about 30 hours for 1 hour of video for avchd;
    **Used the burn previously burned content option, selected a BDtype image (mpeg2) and clicked create disc (using DVD 4.5GB disc).. it burnt and the Magnavox BD player had no trouble playing it; **(Big bonus here)**
    **Used previously burned content option from a bluray image with a menu from NERO and clicked create disc.. it burnt but would not play in the Magnavox player, same result as with Nero

    Sony Vegas 8.0b:
    **Output to bluray: only option here that matches original is the mediaconcept 25mbps type (pan test showed maybe slightly more artifacts than the original, maybe; almost as nice as the pinnacle bluray mpeg or the nero 8 mpeg
    **Render AS: AVC (Mainconcept), custom frame size to 1920x1080, output to mp4 is the only way to make render as, the same resolution
    **render as sony avc mp4 1920x108@60i @17mbs 4m20sec for 23sec clip on dual core (mp4 wont open in any media players and dvd arch says it needs to recompress)
    **Render AS: MainConcept MPEG2 1920x1080@60i 25mbps, output option is m2v: 2m47sec for a 23sec clip on dual core machine (separate audio file, DVD arch finds it, no recode needed), this should be roughly 12 minutes for the 1m 23 second test clip on dual core (8.6 hours for 1 hour rendered roughly on dual core for mainconcept mpeg2)
    **Full ability to have transitions and effects of course



    DVDArchitect 5.0:
    ** Can select multiple m2ts files
    **If using the mp4 from Sony Vegas, it wants to recode the whole video (the avc mainconcept is showing as not compliant for some reason) which took 17minutes to complete
    **if using original m2ts (renamed files), or any m2ts, no recode needed, even with menu's
    **from what I can see this is very basic, menu’s only, with some fancy buttons you can add, no transitions or effects
    **Burnt a movie to DVD 4.5GB with menu, Magnavox BD player had no trouble playing it, though the audio seemed to be shifted to only the front right speaker (showed dolby digital though)
    **Attempt to browse to the stream folder from a Nero image (tried avchd and bluray types), choosing the mts file, it tells me that its not of the required type when I try to create a bluray disc
    Actually, it didnt like any of the pinnacle mts or m2ts files either.. only the originals off the camcorder (HF10) either mts or m2ts would work on the add media prompt.

    Nero Vision 8.0:
    ** can select multiple (m2ts) files at once
    **if using the mp4 (1m 23sec) from vegas “render as”, it does NOT need to recode the video, done in 3 min 20 seconds (on the quad core 2.4ghz)
    **for comparison, using original m2ts file, time to produce bluray image is about 6 minutes on a dual core 1.86 ghz; if using mpeg4, it says it would take about 12-14 minutes on dual core;
    **if EDITING video, trimming video, adding menus.. NO recode needed AGAIN!
    **If adding transitions.. no full recode needed again
    **Best output option so far: Bluray, mpeg2 (at 17mbps), whereas the avchd only goes to 14mbps and showed pixelation like Pinnacle did
    **AVCHD burn on dual core 1.86ghz took 2min 30sec for 1min 23sec clip, set quality to “highest via Configure encoder”, again, max bitrate is 14mbps, showed no noticeable degradation over original (173mb; original is 159mb) (I was also using the fast encoding 1 pass default)\
    **AVCHD on dual core 1.86 took 2m30sec for 1min clip, set quality to normal in the configure encoder this time, set quality under transcode to “high” instead of automatic (173mb, orig was 159mb), result, no noticeable degradation over original again (translates into about 2hours of transcoding time for every 1 hour of video being transcoded)
    **AVCHD on dual core 1.86 2m 28 sec for 1min 23sec clip (cpu usage avg 96% on normal priority), set quality to normal in the config. Encoder section, automatic on the transcode, results: no noticeable degradation again 173mb, original 159mb
    **Tried to burn AVCHD with menus directly to a DVDRW, burnt successfully, played fine in PowerDVD, would NOT play in the Magnavox Bluray Player
    **Tried to burn AVCHD WITHOUT menus to DVDRW, wouldnt play in the Magnavox.



    Ulead Video 11.5
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files

    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files

    PowerDirector 7.0.1618
    *No option for 1440 or even 1920x1080 avchd here

    PowerDirector 7.0.1829
    (Must change aspect ratio in main menu to 16:9, then full avchd options appear under make file or produce..)
    *Set max bitrate to 17mbps, using avchd file, the 1min 23sec clip took 12min 36sec to “quick render” (no menu), cpu usage at 100% on the dual core 1.86ghz with vista x64 (this was about 10 minutes longer than Nero), the m2ts file could be added to dvd architect as well, *but no video could be seen in the preview, just a blank screen; file size 153mb, original 159mb, ***resultant file in powerdvd was a jittery pixilated mess compared to the original!
    *Did the create disc option to AVCHD with menu, setting it to a folder on the harddrive rather than physical disc it took 16minutes on dual core 1.86ghz, resultant m2ts file was 153 mb in size compared to the original of 159mb, cpu usage was at 100% on the dual core 1.86ghz **same jittery pixilated mess as the direct to file option!
    *Tried the BD 1920x1080 option, but smart rendering wasn’t possible here
    *The HD mpeg2 1080i option allowed for smart rendering (mpeg2 file).. took about 6min 23 seconds to complete on the dual core 1.86ghz, file size was 206mb for the 1m 23 sec clip which was 159mb originally, (bit rate was set to a max variable of 25mbps), results: yet again, a jittery pixilated mess


    Pixela ImageMixer 3 SE (came with canon):
    **Program would lock up at random times, either browsing the "library" albums on the left hand side.. or by clicking on a video and clicking "Edit".. it would bring up the adding to library but hang.
    **Many other threads complain about this product, i guess those complaints are warranted.



    At this point i havent found any other render options in Vegas, that could be used in Architect to prevent recoding.. this is my goal.. i'd like to just use these two programs, having the transitions done in Vegas.. It seems the only render as option in vegas is the main concept avc or mpeg2, and architect finds it (the avc one fails, but the mpeg2 one is ok) to not be compliant and wants a recode.. About 8 hours for an mpeg2 recode for 1 hour of video on my dual core machine, 30 hours in Pinnacle for AVCHD mpeg2 image type!

    UPDATED 7/21:
    So it would seem, if nero cant produce a Bluray image that is usuable on DVD media in the bluray player, for now the only way to do edits is to use either pinnacle or sony vegas, either of which require tons of time to re-encode.. I'm still hoping there will be a non re-encoding editor out there that i havent tried though. (maybe pixela)
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  3. Member MozartMan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by markm75
    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files
    I don't have any problem importing .m2ts files in Ulead DMF6+. Works great.
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    Originally Posted by MozartMan
    Originally Posted by markm75
    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files
    I don't have any problem importing .m2ts files in Ulead DMF6+. Works great.
    Did you have to install any sort of HD pack to make this work? Does it allow for smart rendering?
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  5. Member MozartMan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by markm75
    Originally Posted by MozartMan
    Originally Posted by markm75
    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files
    I don't have any problem importing .m2ts files in Ulead DMF6+. Works great.
    Did you have to install any sort of HD pack to make this work? Does it allow for smart rendering?
    Yes, HD Pack for $20. Works great. No re-encoding if you match project properties to the video/audio properties.

    I even wrote the guide on:

    How to author MPEG-2 as AVCHD on DVD5/9 using Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6+ with HD pack without re-encoding MPEG-2 to AVC.

    PDF file attached below:

    HowToAuthorMPEG2toAVCHD.pdf
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  6. Thanks for sharing your experiences

    Originally Posted by markm75
    avisynth may be another editing alternative to avoid recoding, but I couldn’t figure that one out as easily..
    You have to re-encode with avisynth

    I also want to add that if something is "AVCHD" compatible it doesn't guarantee compatibility with everything. It's such a poorly defined "standard." For example footage from a Sanyo model will differ from a Sony model. What works with one might not work for the other...
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    I updated my editing post, at this location (figured ill just keep this centralized):

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14322602#post14322602

    I was able to get imagemixer working (and well)..

    Ill be testing Ulead Factory as soon as I get the hd pack...

    Now i just need a way to (quickly, quality same, convert my mpeg mov files to m2ts or mts somehow)..

    Cheers
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    Originally Posted by MozartMan
    Originally Posted by markm75
    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus
    *Wont import m2ts or mts files
    I don't have any problem importing .m2ts files in Ulead DMF6+. Works great.
    I updated my editing post, at this location (figured ill just keep this centralized):

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14322602#post14322602

    I was able to get imagemixer working (and well)..

    Ill be testing Ulead Factory as soon as I get the hd pack...

    Now i just need a way to (quickly, quality same, convert my mpeg mov files to m2ts or mts somehow)..

    Cheers
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    So my latest adventure, now that i've settled on ImageMaker for editing for now (as it doesnt require a render) and also DVDArchitect 5.0 for the menu (no re-render usually) , is to get my mpeg 720p 30p mov files converted to, ideally, a format (m2ts avchd?) that ImageMaker will like.. ie: when i add them, it wont say that the save may take longer due to incompatible format or similar..

    Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to achieve this..


    So far i've tried using Pinnacle.. convert to BD type image (mpeg2 though).. then import the m2ts into image mixer..

    I guess i could try having nero do a conversion to mpg (if imagemixer wont break when i import it)..

    I've already tried Sony Vegas mp4, but imagemixer breaks..


    **Or.. if i could at least get the movs to an m2ts that DVDArchitect would take without a re-render.. then i could take my imagemixer m2ts file that gets produced along with the m2ts mov converted file and make a menu/bd from them..

    So far, every type of m2ts that was a mov file converted, that i've added to DVDarchitect, tells me it will need recompressed.. any thoughts out there?
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