VHS to DVD 4 methods?

[DereX888]

My latest DVD recorder aquisitions were 2 Dayteks that cost me a grand total of $2.24! The shipping was 10 times that. Yes, they are hard drive units. Even if they are both DOA, I can probably restore at least 1 to working condition, or use either the HDD or DVD burner alone. No, I haven't used the PC for capturing since we got out of the old VCD/SVCD days on this board. Good for you for tweaking...I never could see the need unless your original recordings were multi-generational dubs or somesuch. For that, I have access to pro equipment from the local TV station anyway. For what the original poster wanted to do, the DVD recorder would work just as well for anything so long as his source material is in fairly good condition. For stuff that might be Macrovision protected, he'll have to read more. Even many capture cards had problems that way when I used to use my old All In Wonder card. No problems now with the DVD recorders (and I got rid of all those sync problems as well). I've been building PC boxes since the late 80's but going back to buiding a dedicated capture only PC system would be a waste of my rather limited time. Everything I need to do I can do in post production. That's what the PC is for these days...

I don't get it:
"I've been building PC boxes since the late 80's but going back to buiding a dedicated capture only PC system would be a waste of my rather limited time."
It shouldn't take you more than an hour of time to build it from scratch, and much less if you already have existing machine!
You know, building any modern PC (in past 10 years or so) isn't like those early 80's boxes where you had to set up each and every resource in BIOS before you could even load DOS

Yes I do use standalone for recording DVDs.
I use my main machine for encoding DV etc.
Yet to capture any "priceless" stuff such as old family VHS/VHS-C/8mm/LD movies/etc I use only my dedicated PC. That way I have (in a home environment) best possible quality digital source to work with, with all possible options to tweak or fix the source even before capturing when/if needed.
Good luck finding any consumer or prosumer standalone recorder capable of doing more than just ignoring MacroVision crap and having - at best - some sort of TBC built-in

I said "go with standalone", not with PC. That's what 99% of people probably should do.
However OP stated later he is not a novice, and he seem well "accustomed" with PCs. If *he* already has a spare PC that meets the criteria (which he might) all he needs is a good capture card and he is set for all the years to come until DVD-Video format is no more. Why do you advice him to go with inferior and probably more costly solution? I don't get it.

[sonomablue]

OK, since i am still considering ALL options (and i realize that this question could open up a can-of-worms, due to personal preferences) what options should i consider ? this is for the sake of discussion (since i have NOT completedly ruled out a 'standalone DVD recorder).

If i am considering "capture cards", are you only suggesting "internal" capture cards? If so, are there interface types to avoid ? I looked at the "capture card" listings on this website, and noticed several interfaces, and numerous features. Some are obviously older than others. how much does it matter?

As for interfaces, to list a few from the section on Capture Cards that are internal: AGP, PCI, PCI-express. Any comments??

(My graphics card is currently sitting in my PCI-E 16x slot).

How about devices that are NOT internal? Are those also worth considering ? for instance, i see many posts for the Canopus ADVC-100, ADVC-50 & ADVC-55 ? Are those worthy of consideration? Or are those junk?

How about the interfaces for any external capture devices? Anything to quickly rule out, or rule in? USB-2.0, Firewire, etc.

I sensed (from the most rececnt posts) an interest in internal cards. Would you mind commenting on the brand and model (and price if you don't mind) of the cards that you are using?

thanks

[sonomablue]

this is an addition to my last post (above) ^
It is probably a dumb question, but since i am new to this "capturing of video signals", i figure what the heck. I may as well ask a dumb quetsion. Maybe the answers will surprise me. Here is the question. My new PC has a TV Tuner Card (in the summary list, it is described as a "ATSC-NTSC TV Tuner with PVR, FM Tuner"). I did not request it. It came with the PC. I did not have any plans to use it. But i recently connnected the output from my Directv Receiver (s-video, and red/white audio RCA connecters) into the TV Tuner Card, and it works. I can watch my Directv on my PC. I use Vista's Media Center. It works quite well.

My question is this. Can i disconnect the cables (that come from my Directv Receiver), and instead connect the cables from my VHS player, or Super-8 camcorder, and will i somehow be able to see (and more importanly) capture the video on my PC? I realize it is probably a stupid question. But the interfaces on the TV Tuner card are the same was what comes off of my VHS player and Super-8 camcorder?

thanks.

[sonomablue]

Ok. Here's the lastest (updates to my two posts above ^

On my HP Desktop, there are two ways on connecting video/audio - that came with my pc.

(1) there is a ViXS PureTV-U (NTSC-ATSC Combo) TV card. This is what i currently have connected to my Directv Receiver - via S-Video and compostie audio White/Red RCA jacks. This works great for watching my Directv on my pc using Windows Media Center.

(2) on the front of the PC, where you would normally find USB connectors, there is a set of composite connectors Yellow (video) Red/White (audio).

I have an old version of ArcSoft Video Impression that must have come with one of our cameras.

I connected my Super-8 video camera to the front (yellow, white, red) connectors.

When i attempt to use Video Impressions to "capture" the video/audio, it recognizes the video. I can see (via Video Impressions) on my PC what is playing on my Super-8 camera. I click on "RECORD" via Video Impressions. The 'moving' video image stops, but the screen continues to say "Recording". When I click on "stop". I get the error: "Video Impressions: Unknown File type".

I am guessing that it is, in part, due to the fact that the software is about 5-6 years old, and was free with the camera.

I am wondering if anyone can comment on what I am trying to do.

using the yellow/white/red composite RCA interface on the front of the PC, is this an acceptable way to connect a camcorder, VHS player, my Video-8 player, to try to capture the video?

Would it be better to connect my Video-8 camera to the TV Tuner Card?

or are both of these methods contrary to "capturing" a home movie?

Maybe i need a "true video capture card" or a "true video capture device" ?

Help?

[lordsmurf]

Avoid Panasonic DVD recorders. The audio always has errors when you try to use basic cut/splice editing in native MPEG. Audio drifts. It's been said that the AC3 is not 100% compliant.

DVD recorders that improve signal quality exist. The JVC DR-M10 and 100 series machines, or the Toshiba units with hard drives. Other machines will make a DVD look the same or worse. You want 1-3 hours modes, depends on recorder PQ (resolution:bitrate ratio).

Capture devices are often marketed with fluffy BS promises. These are basically nothing more than DV cameras, without the camera. Quality will stay the same, or look worse, it won't look better from a VHS tape.

Cameras with passthrough can be useful. New ones run $100-200 these days, as SD DV is pretty well dead. SD-DV/DVD and HD-DV/onSDcard has pretty much supplanted the old DV/tape method of the past 5-10 years.

Capture cards can provide superior quality, but it depends on the cards. The computer needs to be good, and the card needs to be good. These cards are often $200-2000 new, or $50-500 used. There are not a lot of good options. ATI, Matrox, Canopus and Hauppage make good cards -- but they make crap ones too, must get right one.

This is not easy, but it's not impossible either. You're asking the right questions.

Don't forget the VHS player is often more important than the capture device, in terms of your video quality.

[mpack]

I click on "RECORD" via Video Impressions. The 'moving' video image stops, but the screen continues to say "Recording". When I click on "stop". I get the error: "Video Impressions: Unknown File type".

Welcome to the world of capturing video on a PC. A world of inherent unreliability and frustration, which is why I recommended a DVD recorder in the first place! Don't say you weren't warned!

[PuzZLeR]

Fun thread, can I jump in?

After transferring over 200 VHS tapes to digital, here's my opinion on the situation.

-I fully agree with mpack on simplicity with a stand-alone unit. I have been through the PC capture circus and I'm amazed that I still have a full head of hair, although I can't say much for my personal relationships while fighting these things... At any rate, a DVR with a HDD is your best bet (pending availability in the market these days). My DVR has been 100% reliable in every transfer. Can I repeat it one more time? My DVR has been 100% reliable in every transfer. Mine's a Pioneer, but there are other good ones. All I did was just plug the VCR into it, load tape, press "Play" on it, then input it into my DVR, press "record" and that's it. It works totally independently - all I do is "feed the machine(s)".

-I do agree with DereX888 about professional results. If you do find a good capture card or device, if you are savvy, if you are patient, if you do accept the bad result once in a while or many times in between the good ones, and you have time for a learning curve, then go for it. But you yourself have to assess whether the 10%-15% quality gains are worth the 50%-80% headaches, and just how important your content really is. As well, your best results will only come from capturing into uncompressed AVI which demands temporary SPACE on your drives (but at least you have it direct to PC this way). But also keep in mind, you will be tying up a PC fully for this task since it's very CPU/RAM intensive. Think about it when you can just use a separate independent stand-alone unit, that works unattended as well, and won't hog your computer resources.

But, I am considering such a PC capture device these days once more because I'm down to my most important family tapes to finish the job, which brings me to my next point.

-If you are chucking the tape after completion it is IMO best practice to do the least important ones first. This way, as you're progressing through your content, you're becoming an "expert". Your biggest mistakes will be on the early stuff that you practice on that you may have thrown out anyway and your best skills will be saved for the most cherished ones in the end.

-As for your Disney stuff, or any commercial content, you should just buy the DvD assuming it's available IMO. Other than rare TV stuff or family vidz, this chore is simply not worth it when buying the DvD will be a much better quality production. There are ways to filter out the protection that may come with it via a "black box", but, meh, I wouldn't bother.

-If you decide to use a stand-alone DVD recorder, keep in mind that you would have limited authoring and editing functions. You can cut, you can even join, and you can author and burn into simplistic menus, but most hardcores here will transfer to their PCs via RW media to better edit, author and burn to a more customized result. I would just personally dump the content onto the DVR's HDD, then cut out alot of the "fat" then transport to PC for the final production. You don't have to worry about losing quality when apps like Womble, VideoReDo and TMPGEnc can do cuts/joins losslessly for you, even author to final disc.

My best balanced solution for simplicity and quality is use a DVR and record at the highest bitrate - which is almost like uncompressed AVI then transfer to PC for processing. You will need more transfers with RW media but worth it for preserving the best capture. I do this because I like to re-encode with filters, cropping, and some to MPEG-4 content anyway, which is something I'd have to do with uncompressed AVI anyway.

As well, understand that this is a project that could take months. One at a time. Good luck.

[lordsmurf]

Months? Try years, in some cases. Depends on the end-goals. Editing can take forever, especially if you add commentary audio tracks to home movies. Pretty much take the running time of a video, and multiply it by 4 minimum, with no added work. It's more like a factor of 10 if you do anything else.

[sonomablue]

OK, I am going to continue to post my questions, and progress in this thread, particularly since i created the thread. I am begining to get mildly frustrated which may lead to my final product decision being a standalone DVD recorder. However, before i make that final decision, I do enjoy technical things, and am therefore wanting to "play out" a few scenarios.

Here is my latest. Some of this has been mentioned in previous posts.

I have an HP Pavilion m9300t.

It came with a TV Tuner card. In the packing list it is called "ATSC-NTSC TVTUNER With PVR, FM Tuner, and Remote". When i dig into the device manager, i find that the TV Tuner card is actually a "ViXS PureTV-U 48B0 (NTSC/ATSC Combo)".

I am able to connect my Directv Receiver to the TV Card via s-video and red/white composite audio cables. I am able to successfully watch TV on my PC, and records shows to my hard drive. (this is not my goal, in this forum, but it is woth noting that i am able to accompish this much via the card, and cables to my Directv receiver.

I am ALSO able to (remove the cables going to my Directv Receiver) and connect my Super-8 camera to the TVTUNER card, using yellow-svideo connecter plug, and the two red/white audio composite RCA cables (between my Sony Super-8 and the TV Tuner card.

When i use ARCSoft VideoImpressions v2 (circa 2002), the software sees the TV Tuner Card. It allows me to select from 5 different video interfaces that it found on the HP Pavilion.
0: Video Tuner IN
1: Video Composite In
2: Video SVideo In
3: Video Composite In
4: Video SVideo In

When i select the "2: Video SVideo In" , then the Arcsoft VideoImpressions software finds the signal (from my Sony Video-8 camera) and displays it on the screen. I click on "Record", let it run for about 30 seconds. I then "stop" the recording, and get the following error message:"Video Impressions: Unknown File type". My guess is that the "error" is because the software is 6 years old

So, today, I download a 30-day, free trial version of ULead/Corel VideoStudio 11.5 Plus. I install the VideoStudio, and bring it up. I go into the Movie Wizard, and "Capture" mode. The software sees the TV Tuner card (ViXS PureTV ATSC Tuner), but it immediately kicks out an error message: ULead VideoStudio Movie Wizard: Capture Module iniitialization failed, 15064:20:0". When i go into the VideoStudio "OPTIONS", the "Video Properties" is grey'd out. It won't let me make any changes.

In summary, it is ironic (and frustrating) that a 6-year-old software (ARCSoft VideoImpressions) can see the Video through the TV TunerCard, but will not record it due to some file type problems. Yet, the newest ULead VideoStudio, will not even recognize that there is any video signal on the TV Card at all.

My "guess" is that the TV Tuner Card is "not a capture card" but is just a TV Tuner card (you can watch, but you can't "capture" the video/audio feed). I am hoping that someone may read this and either (1) confirm that my guess is correct, or (2) Refute my guess, and tell me something like "any TV Tuner card should be capable of 'capturing' the video/audio".

(Especially since BOTH "Window Media Center" AND "ArcSoft VideoImpressions" are able to see the video. ).

Any ideas?

Are all TV Tuner Cards capable of "capturing" the audio/video?
Has anyone heard of HP's card that they are using "ViXA PureTV ATSCNTSC TVTUNER" ?

thanks.

[mpack]

If I understand correctly, the TV tuner card is independant, separate from your graphics card?

If so, then in order to see the video on your PC monitor, the video data must have entered the PC, crossed the PCI bus and reached the graphics card, which means that the video data must be accessible to the PC and the PC must be capable of recording it... if you had the right software.

The right software is usually whatever came with the tuner card, as that is the only software which you can assume has been correctly optimized/configured to work with this card (I haven't had much luck with generic video capture software). I don't know if that's what you are saying "Video Impressions" is. I'm afraid I can't help much with the error message - it isn't very meaningful to me. I suspect that Video Impressions may be buffering the video somehow to some proprietary format cache file with the intention of exporting this as an AVI when you click the "stop recording" button. Except somehow it doesn't recognize it's own cache file, which is weird to say the least. Presumably it is dependant on some external module which is no longer compatible, but I would expect decent software to do version checks of external dependencies (and preferably not have external dependencies in the first place).

I should mention that I have always been rather suspicious of TV tuner cards, more so than with PC capture cards in general. In my experience, in order for PC video capture to be somewhat reliable, the hardware you use in the PC must minimize the PCs involvement (ie. be as self contained as possible). In the case of a tuner card the video data has to cross the bus three times (in from the tuner card, out again to the graphics card to view the video, out again to the hard disk while capturing - tho this data might be compressed). This is a lot of bus activity and we haven't even considered the audio yet. If I'm going to use a PC capture card then I prefer something like the ATI All-in-Wonder (a combined capture and PC graphics card), as that removes a lot of this overhead.

Is there a "Settings" dialog in Video Impressions where you can select the output video format? I am not familiar with that particular product, but in similar products I would expect to see a choice of MPEG1/MPEG2 vs AVI output, and in the latter case a choice of compression methods... in which case what method do you have selected now? (Windows doesn't ship with any useful AVI compression codecs except for "uncompressed" which will really test your PC).

What else can I say! I would forget the tuner card, capture the video outside the PC. Use the PC for editing and DVD authoring only.

[PuzZLeR]

Such a wonderful post made completely notwithstanding with the last line:

What else can I say! I would forget the tuner card, capture the video outside the PC. Use the PC for editing and DVD authoring only.

And I agree with it.

If you truly want to be productive, I believe just go with the stand-alone solution. You can always migrate the content via RW to your PC for better processing and edits etc.

The only reason I'm considering a PC capture device again is not for improving my productivity, but because I'm a hardcore, freak and enthusiast for the hobby who's blown thousands of $ just to satisfy his curiosity. Otherwise, if you just want to do the job just to do the job, then life's too short - just go for a DVR.

If preserving memories, and as much quality, for the future is as important to you as to most of us, then consider this: In the future, when machines get considerably faster, we'll have applications such as Fractal Compression, which will take almost any crappy source and, through inference, convert it to pristine HD.

[sonomablue]

Thanks for the replies. I must tell you that this situation is getting more and more interesting. I am amazed at the twists and turns. Let me tell you the latest.

My new HP Pavilion Desktop (m9300t) came with the TV Tuner card that i am trying to use (at least as a test) to capture some analog video (from either my Sony Hi-8, or a VCR).

The "VideoImpressions" software did not come with the HP Desktop. The ArcSoft VideoImpressions software is old (from about 2002-2003), and it came from when i bought a camera. I never used it in past. I only recently remembered that I had the CD, and figured that i would give it a try. Bad idea (even though it was able to detect the video from the TV Tuner card).

Let me add a detail that is worth mentioning. My new HP Desktop has Vista 64-bit.

The ArcSoft Video Impressions 2.0 is NOT compatible with Vista. After installing it, and after playing with it, to see if it would work, I subsequently discovered that it causes major damage to Vista. Due to the DVD drivers that are installed with VideoImpressions, it completely removes and DVD "drives" from the PC. Luckily, Arcsoft as a Vista FIX for the problem.

http://www.arcsoft.com/support/downloads/download_patches/vista.asp

I downloaded the ArcSoft Vista Fix, installed it, and the DVD drives both show up again. Be forewarned, do NOT install ArcSoft VideoImpressions if you have Vista 64-bit.

Next, on to my testing with Ulead/Corel VideoStudio 11.5 Plus. It has not worked. My hunch has been that it was because my TV Tuner card is not a capture card. Well, after doing some googling I have discovered that the newest version of VideoStudio (11) was written by Corel (and not by ULead). It turns out that whatever drivers have been used in prior versions of VideoStudio, have been replaced by some common driver (that has many problems).

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=31785&sid=f7067a41c77f7f5222a619db00a1abf9

A quote from a message board post that discusses it:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=27085&view=next&sid=45fbb552ece83fbf0b6d3e4cca6a9f44

Corel or InterVideo, after they took over Ulead, for some stupid reason changed all the various capture plug-ins that had worked happily in all previous versions, for a single InterVideo capture plug-in. If what appears in the 'change capture plug-in' pane is 'IVI capture component', what you see is all there is any more. Lots of us have other problems with that module, but capturing DV is not one of those problems -- at least, not that anyone else has reported...

In a roxio post, someone else lost their DVD drive. It is probably a similar problem with some Video software overwriting Vista's DVD drivers. http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?s=d57214bb967dc56838ee4f5810ce30f1&showtopic...0&#entry186515

My next thought was to consider Pinnacle Studio. However, in doing some reserach, it sounds like some people are having problems with the new version. Some are complaining about nightmares with the new Flash version. It (Pinnacle Studio) may be just fine, and it may be compatible with Vista. But you can probably understand (after what i have gone through so far) why i might be a little hesistant to give it a test.

Again, i like technical things. I do technical support in IT for a living. But after some of these twists and turns, it does make me reconsider the standalone DVD recorder.

One more point about my new HP Desktop. It DOES have the TV Tuner Card, which does seem to detect "analog" signals (when using Windows Media Center, and with Video Impressions). but the TV Tuner Card did NOT come with any "capture" software. (that is why i tested ArcSoft VideoImpressions, and why i downloaded the trial version of ULead/Corel VideoStudio). My guess is that HP 'cheaped out' and chose to just provide the TV Tuner card (which works with Windows Media Center) but they did not want to provide any 'capture software'.

A bit frustrated, but i haven't given up yet. Since the entire reason that I started this thread is because i want to copy my home movies (VHS and Super-8) to DVD.

[sonomablue]

SUCCESS !!!

I called HP Tech Support, and asked if they could supply me with (capture) softare for the TV Tuner card (ViXS PuerTV-U 48B0 NTSC/ATSC Combo card) that came with the new HP Pavilionn Desktop.

The guy asked me if i had tried the CyberLink PowerDirector software that came with the PC. I had to admit that I had not tried it. (sometimes PCs come with crap that you don't want to activate because you don't want to pay this fee or that fee).

I opened it up, and sure enough, the PowerDirector 6 has capture capability that discovered all the inputs on my TV Tuner card (S-Video, audio red, audio white), as well as all of the composite connections (yellow, white, red) on the front of the PC. I tried plugging my Sony Video 8 camera into the different connections, and a large, colorful, clear window came up with the video and the sound. I clicked record, and eventually stop, and SUCCESS, it let me save to a MPG file.

I then tried connecting 'capturing' the input from my Directv Receiver, and i was able to record a fairly new movie (Zoom, with Tim Allen).

I have not yet tried my VHS tapes via my VCR to the inputs, but am confident that it will work.

I also tried "making a movie" with VideoDirector, with success. It created a MPEG2 movie that i could watch with windows media player. I then did the "burn" to DVD, and it created a DVD movie.

Since i was new to this, i was initially suprised when Windows Media Player would not play the new movie. But when i used PowerDVD (that came with the PC) the movie played in true DVD clear format.

I am a happy camper at the moment.

More to come soon.

[lordsmurf]

PowerDirector used to force a deinterlace, captured video look like trash. How does it look these days?

[mpack]

I clicked record, and eventually stop, and SUCCESS, it let me save to a MPG file.

Congratulations!

Be careful however to pay attention to the details of the capture format. If you intend to do any processing on the video then it should be a high quality MPEG2 capture to give you some quality "elbow room" for later recoding.

If you don't intend to do anything to the video then capturing directly to DVD compliant MPEG2 (meaning correct NTSC frame rate and frame size and average bit rate around 4-5Mbps). Don't capture in MPEG1 assuming all your sources are standard interlaced video (MPEG1 doesn't support interlacing, and the interlacing needs to be kept to maintain the quality).

[sar]

[quote="PuzZLeR"]If you truly want to be productive, I believe just go with the stand-alone solution. You can always migrate the content via RW to your PC for better processing and edits etc.[quote]

What is via RW?

[sonomablue]

In answer to Lordsmurf - the quality is amazing. I have heard, and have read that converting VHS and other analog media is a crapshoot. Even a co-worker who does a lot of photo and movie editing, and has numerous s/w tools, and 3 different PCs for various different fuctions indicated that the quality is "not all that good". I was expecting mediocre at best. What i have found is surprising clear.

Now, if he is used to recording, copying, editing on BlueRay than what is clean and clear to me, may still look mediocre to him. I have not seen his edited movies, and he has not seen my recent capture and DVD that I burned.

All i can say is that my goal, to copy old analog (VHS and Super-8) family movies to DVD is underway, and so far the quality is very enjoyable. It is not blurry, it is not grainy, there are no lines across the screen, the color seems true, etc. PowerDirector has some tools to clean up shaky movies, and white balance, etc. - but i have already read that it pales in comparison to Premier Elements, Roxio 10, and other products. That may be the case, and i may end up buying one of the better products. but so far, i am very pleases.

Since i mentioned it, are there favorite products (for Video editing, and movie making) that anyone cares to recommend (Premier Elements, Roxio 10, ULead/Corel VideoStudio, Pinnacle Studio, etc).

thanks

[2Bdecided]

Fun thread, can I jump in?

After transferring over 200 VHS tapes to digital, here's my opinion on the situation.

-I fully agree with mpack on simplicity with a stand-alone unit. I have been through the PC capture circus and I'm amazed that I still have a full head of hair, although I can't say much for my personal relationships while fighting these things... At any rate, a DVR with a HDD is your best bet (pending availability in the market these days). My DVR has been 100% reliable in every transfer. Can I repeat it one more time? My DVR has been 100% reliable in every transfer. Mine's a Pioneer, but there are other good ones. All I did was just plug the VCR into it, load tape, press "Play" on it, then input it into my DVR, press "record" and that's it. It works totally independently - all I do is "feed the machine(s)".

-I do agree with DereX888 about professional results. If you do find a good capture card or device, if you are savvy, if you are patient, if you do accept the bad result once in a while or many times in between the good ones, and you have time for a learning curve, then go for it. But you yourself have to assess whether the 10%-15% quality gains are worth the 50%-80% headaches, and just how important your content really is. As well, your best results will only come from capturing into uncompressed AVI which demands temporary SPACE on your drives (but at least you have it direct to PC this way). But also keep in mind, you will be tying up a PC fully for this task since it's very CPU/RAM intensive. Think about it when you can just use a separate independent stand-alone unit, that works unattended as well, and won't hog your computer resources.

But, I am considering such a PC capture device these days once more because I'm down to my most important family tapes to finish the job, which brings me to my next point.

-If you are chucking the tape after completion it is IMO best practice to do the least important ones first. This way, as you're progressing through your content, you're becoming an "expert". Your biggest mistakes will be on the early stuff that you practice on that you may have thrown out anyway and your best skills will be saved for the most cherished ones in the end.

-As for your Disney stuff, or any commercial content, you should just buy the DvD assuming it's available IMO. Other than rare TV stuff or family vidz, this chore is simply not worth it when buying the DvD will be a much better quality production. There are ways to filter out the protection that may come with it via a "black box", but, meh, I wouldn't bother.

-If you decide to use a stand-alone DVD recorder, keep in mind that you would have limited authoring and editing functions. You can cut, you can even join, and you can author and burn into simplistic menus, but most hardcores here will transfer to their PCs via RW media to better edit, author and burn to a more customized result. I would just personally dump the content onto the DVR's HDD, then cut out alot of the "fat" then transport to PC for the final production. You don't have to worry about losing quality when apps like Womble, VideoReDo and TMPGEnc can do cuts/joins losslessly for you, even author to final disc.

My best balanced solution for simplicity and quality is use a DVR and record at the highest bitrate - which is almost like uncompressed AVI then transfer to PC for processing. You will need more transfers with RW media but worth it for preserving the best capture. I do this because I like to re-encode with filters, cropping, and some to MPEG-4 content anyway, which is something I'd have to do with uncompressed AVI anyway.

As well, understand that this is a project that could take months. One at a time. Good luck.

This is a great post.

If you decide that you want to fiddle more in a PC, then a good alternative to VCR>DVD-RW>PC rip is simply to capture to a DV capture device (like the Canopus ADVC110, or a camcorder with analogue input) straight into a PC.
Advantages: straight into PC (no two-step), slightly higher quality for post-processing (DV instead of MPEG-2), none of the painful PC capturing issues associated with PC video card capturing (almost all PCs can grab the DV stream from the ADVC110 without any problems, just like the stream from a DV camcorder).
Disadvantages: ADVC110 needs a decent stable signal, while some DVD recorders are a bit forgiving of bad signals. Having got the signal into the PC, you'll be tempted to fiddle, and then have to do a software MPEG-2 encode (usually quite slow to do properly - real time or slower).

Cheers,
David.

[SingSing]

There is no advantage of "DV or miniDV capturing" vs "VCR to DVD"

Capture quality is mostly decided by the analog to digital processing of the capturing device. Especially when the source has much less resolution and quality than the destination.

[mpack]

I was expecting mediocre at best. What i have found is surprising clear.

Be careful - sometimes the video looks great when packed into a small window on a PC monitor. Play it on your 36" widescreen TV and every little defect will become very obvious.

[2Bdecided]

There is no advantage of "DV or miniDV capturing" vs "VCR to DVD"

Capture quality is mostly decided by the analog to digital processing of the capturing device. Especially when the source has much less resolution and quality than the destination.

DV is a slightly better way of capturing noisy VHS for post-processing. Lossless is an even better way, but even more hassle.

MPEG-2 might have much higher resolution than VHS, but it often can't cope with capturing all the noise from VHS without wrecking the underlying picture. Capturing directly to DV-AVI also cuts out one stage for those projects where you want to go via a PC, saving time as well as potentially improving quality.

Cheers,
David.

[silkdump]

This post is a GOLD MINE!

I have been reading this forum for a couple months now, and really appreciate the work and thought that has been invested by the original poster as well as the responders. In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I respectfully submit this very specific question:

Should I buy a Canopus ADVC 110 or a DVR?

I have about 20 VHS tapes (home videos of my children). I didn't have a VCR, and after reading this forum, found and bought a JVC HR-S9800U. It works well.

I have plenty of hardrive space (450 GB), can afford the $250 for the Canopus and another $100 or so for decent editing software (I have Sony PowerDirector currently, but am willing to purchase something else if it is better), running XP on my Pentium 4, 2.8 GHz PC. I have 3 cards installed in my PC and don't have room for a 4th internal capture card.

I don't have time now, but eventually may want to do some substantial editing at a later date. My primary objective is to digitize the content with the highest possible quality while leaving the door open to making future edits.

Should I go the VCR/S-video to Canopus/firewire route or should I go directly to a DVR and then worry about porting the data to the PC later?

Love this board!!! Thank you in advance for your thoughtful replies.

[silkdump]

Sorry, I meant this THREAD is a gold mine, not my post. Hope there is no offense taken.

[2Bdecided]

I don't have time now, but eventually may want to do some substantial editing at a later date. My primary objective is to digitize the content with the highest possible quality while leaving the door open to making future edits.

You can edit MPEG-2 nearly as well as DV these days, but anything more than simple cut/paste editing (e.g. fades, wipes, adding titles, picture-in-picture etc) requires re-encoding that section at least - DV does this with less quality loss than MPEG-2, and the tools that allow lossless cut/paste editing of MPEG-2 (e.g. Womble, VideoReDo) aren't designed for more complex editing.

Cheers,
David.

[KLouis22]

I too read forums and threads like this for months for VHS-DVD conversion advice. The more I read the more I decided against PC method. Too many issues, concerns, encoding probs and time, etc. Was looking at DVD recorders.

Then found a $49 Hw/Sw pkg called 'DVD Express DX2'. A small box and 3 s/w programs on CD. Video quality of resulting rip is IMHO excellent, every bit as good as watching the tape.
And, I know this is theoretically impossible, it sometimes looks better than tape, both on PC and TV. (One is LCD other CRT)

Only issue so far - A few DVDs made from VHS of rock concerts with stereo audio had, when played in my main DVD player, sound was ok at low/normal volume but played loudly was unacceptably distorted and thus then played softly again not OK. These 3 DVDs sound fine in my PC player thru speakers or phones, and played on PS2 on same TV/Audio system main player is. Haven't figured this one out yet. Only these 3 of abt 20 have this audio distortion, and only in that 1 device -- kinda strange to me.

Otherwise, considering what I gleaned on the net on subject, how bad the rips may look, noise control considerations and effect etc., time/processing issues and all the steps required,
% of times a step disrupted and needed to retry and hours wasted doing these, on and on, what by then had me discouraged about even trying to copy VHS, this little pkg seems to meet my needs. And I'm still not entirely sure what I'm doing and why.

If anyone else has and knows how to use this tool, especially the included 'Showbiz DVD 2' software, I'd like to hear from, as have some questions.

[mpack]

And, I know this is theoretically impossible, it sometimes looks better than tape, both on PC and TV.

No, that is not at all impossible.

It is absolutely true that once you throw away information it can never be recovered: so all those cop dramas that show some videogeek zooming in and "enhancing" to bring out a cars plates are total BS. You can't "enhance" detail that isn't there.

However it is quite possible to make old videos look better to the eye by filtering and interpolating reasonable values for missing data. Upscalers and deinterlacers do this all the time, as do the guys who do digital restoration of old movies for DVD. The result likely bears little resemblance to the original lost detail, but the eye is happy.

[KLouis22]

I must have meant "theor.imposs." just using a rip and burn w/o any of those cleanup techniques. And not sure exactly how the mfr's (ADSTech) proprietary capture s/w and h/w box treats it or what noise or other available adjustments/techniques might be used. Don't think there's any filtering, interpolating, upscaling, de-interlacing going on. The s/w is "Capwiz" (Capture Wizard). I think it encodes each video clip as ready-to-burn-to-DVD format.

But if moving a series of clips to the editor, "ShowbizDVD2", and wanting 1 DVD of these, I think it again encodes, re-encodes?, to one file. Again, I really have little idea what I'm doing or why, and would like to know more. Knowing that, I am impressed with the video quality I get now, having read abt VHS-DVD conversion quality probs, Chroma, noise,
interlacing or de-, etc making finished output poor.

And I'm not using my best VHS deck to play tape at the rip. Most of the tape was rec on Sony SLV660HF unit. Playing at rip with Phillips SV2000(fairly cheap). Both units are kept clean i.e., cleaned regularly. That fact may be why my resulting digital vid quality looks so pristine, don't really know but probably does help. So far haven't felt the need to rip with Sony as play deck on tapes recorded on Sony. May be a slight improvement, perhaps moreso on tapes recorded SLP. Regarding this matching, ripping w/same playdeck as tape was made on, does any potential improvement this way apply to both video and audio or practically just video?

BTW, Re: VCR cleaning -- I use a wet-clean process only once/yr or so. Once/month or so routine cleaning done with a new blank VHS tape as an expert advised. Insert, play 15-30min, at default play setting (SP) for unrecorded tape, stop, eject. Mark tape boldly as a cleaning tape, use this way till reaches the end then pitch. NEVER Rewind, etc over the already-played/cleaned section. This method said to be way gentler to heads/machine and cleans as effectively as any dry cleaning tape. Further, b/c this is so gentle can be done more often and cleanliness maintained. Just a method, works for me.

Question re: Capture format. What is comparison, adv or disadvantage of DVD or DivX format, or other(better) formats?

[KLouis22]

Inquiry regarding my method, as I wrote about towards end of this thread, VHS to DVD:

1) Assuming the final output is to burn a DVD, meaning file to burn should be MPEG-2 as I currently understand, is it preferable for the rip, i.e., capture to be MPEG-2 or Divx and why?

2) In the manual for DVDXpress DX2, for output to DVD suggest MPEG-2 as Video Encoding Format. For audio encoding format can choose MPEG-1 Layer-2 or WAV(LPCM).
Next is Compression Tuning section, "allows you to customize the Video Encoding Format you've selected. You can set Video Resolution, Video Quality, Audio Frequency or Audio Bit Rate". Then can select audio frequency as 48.0 KHz(MPEG-1 L2) or 44.1 KHz(MPEG-1 L2).

BUT THEN says "Select 48.0KHz(MPEG-1 L2) if you want to capture MPEG-2 for DVD disc". Next it says under 'Audio Bit Rates' heading, "The audio format is always compressed in MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio. CapWiz also automatically sets the audio sampling rate to 44.1 for VCD/SVCD settings and 48.0 for DVD video. You have the choice to select the audio bit rate for video captures in range of 192 to 384kbps".

Is using WAV(LPCM) Audio Encoding Format preferable to MPEG1L2 if it's not compressed, or maybe is incompatible with DVD? Because as they repeat, you use 48.0KHZ(MPEG-1 L2) to capture MPEG-2 for DVD disc. Confusing to me, when would you set to WAV(LPCM) if cannot use for DVD?

A table shows what's called "Legal Settings" for each format. For DVD, use 3-8 MB/s Video Bit Rate, 102-448KB/s Audio Bit Rate. Settings here adjusting capture can affect the burned DVD disc's playability across different players, as I understand.

If you know what all this means, please enlighten with the 4-1/2 minute capsule tutorial. What to set when, what figures to use for adjustments, why and when another figure(higher or lower) is preferable. What is or isn't allowable etc.

When adjusting Video and Audio Bit Rates how does adjusting direction (up vs down) of each affect things?

Or should I just keep using those 'Automatic' settings s/w chooses for you for a DVD?

[mpack]

1) Assuming the final output is to burn a DVD, meaning file to burn should be MPEG-2 as I currently understand, is it preferable for the rip, i.e., capture to be MPEG-2 or Divx and why?

The correct answer depends on how much processing you intend to do to the video on the PC (including possible future processing for formats other than SD DVD). If you do not intend to do any video processing then it is most convenient to capture directly to MPEG2, in a screen size and frame rate supported by DVD. Your capture software has a preset for PAL and NTSC DVD compatible captures.

If you intend to do some video processing then you want to capture as much of the original quality as possible, but this can be unreliable. If you go this road then it should be lossless capture (eg. Huffyuv), or DV-AVI, or a high bitrate MPEG2 capture. DivX is not a good choice when the target is standard DVD, because DivX AVI files will need to be reencoded to MPEG2 (and interlacing, frame size and frame rate may also need to be corrected), and reencoding an already compressed video will lose a lot of quality.

Is using WAV(LPCM) Audio Encoding Format preferable to MPEG1L2 if it's not compressed, or maybe is incompatible with DVD? Because as they repeat, you use 48.0KHZ(MPEG-1 L2) to capture MPEG-2 for DVD disc. Confusing to me, when would you set to WAV(LPCM) if cannot use for DVD?

The DVD standard allows for the audio stream to be LPCM(WAV), MPEG-1 Layer II and third party encodings such as AC3 (Dolby), all with 48kHz sample rate. However in my experience, most consumer DVD players only recognize LPCM and AC3. Given that your capture software can't capture to AC3 my preference would be to capture to LPCM for max audio quality, then I would later demux the video and audio elementary streams, re-encode the audio to AC3 (to get the audio bitrate down to something reasonable) then either remux or use the elementary streams directly in a DVD authoring tool.

[ Edit ] Forgot to mention: the latest DVD players can play DixX files, which might change the desirability of capturing to a DivX format. However I've never tried to capture to a DivX format and don't even know if its possible (it seems to me that DivX encoding in real time would need a lot of CPU! My guess is that the best way to produce DivX files is to do a lossless capture first, DivX encoding later).

[lordsmurf]

Most all MPEG decoders can decode MPEG audio (MP2) too. I would advise against PCM audio, as it requires too much space.

DivX capture tends to looks pretty bad, and it has more to do with compression than CPU.