SVCD 704x480 mpg stills with audio?

[jungle5150]

Hey guys, I've been looking all over for a couple of days now about this question. I have a bunch of photos that I want to put on an SVCD with my own commentary.

I know that SVCD supports mpg 704x480 stills, and I've successfully made the mpg files with no sound. However, I want to add audio. I know all about muxing it in to normal mpeg files, but when I try to use the mplex program in linux, the image shows up after several seconds of audio and then disappears before the audio finishes.

I have not tried to burn an actual cd yet, just watch the muxed file. Does anybody know if the hi-res still encoding method supports audio as another stream? Does the SVCD standard support audio and stills in the same file?

note: I have nerovision, which very easily puts together cds with audio and pics, but I don't know if it's 704x480. I suspect that it encodes normal 480x480 video with audio muxed in. I'm not sure how to analyze whether this is the case or not. If nero will do hi-res, then I guess I'll just use it.

Thanks,
Bill

[Nelson37]

I know you can have audio with the slides in full-res, but I am pretty sure you can not have audio for individual slides, just audio matching the entire show. Also, ff and RW just advance individual slides, they do not function in the conventional manner.

Few creation progs support this properly, BTW vcd has the same capabilities. It's been so long I don't remember what tools I used.

Messed with this quite a bit a long time ago, ended up going to DVD slideshow for individual audio commentary and standard FF and RW.

[jungle5150]

So you're saying that I can have one audio track that keeps playing throughout the whole slideshow? Do you know how to code this into the xml file? The way that I know of to do a slideshow is to set it up in the xml file. Are you talking about a single mpg for the whole slideshow?

I could just string all the comments together and disable the skipping/ff functions. Of course that would be pretty inconvenient. for the viewer.

bill

[Midzuki]

Hi there.

If you want an audio background for an entire slideshow sequence,
I think the best choice would be create a .m2v with the still pictures.
You can create MPG-stills with audio, but these would be more suitable IMO
for menus or song tracks. You should use TMPGenc for multiplexing the stills
if this is what you're looking for; if your standalone player is not picky,
you can encode as .m1v and multiplex as ''SVCD stream''. Last but not least,
drop Nero. HTH.

[Alex_ander]

Maybe the easiest would be to make a mini-DVD (on CDR) with MPEG stills+audio. DVDLab is capable of creating seamless audio titles with still MPEG for each mark point on timeline (up to 2 audio tracks at this). The only problem is to drag each picture individually (needs patience if there are too many). Also the audio track should be created first and time codes for each picture place planned. Burning mini-DVDs is supported in Nero (separate option in smart start).

[Nelson37]

Going on memory here, but I am pretty sure the slideshow was basically created as a series of menus, and again I think I used TSCV for this, which will allow for editing of the HTML or at least displays it for you.

The parameters were a max of 99 segments with each having a max of 99 images, so you could have up to 99 seperate audio files.

If you haven't used TSCV, one thing I remember was you had to get sequences and orders right the first time, it really, really seemed to dislike any editing changes once the project was begun.

[Cornucopia]

Let's all try to do a little more research here folks...

Get VCDEasy, and create your (S)VCD MPEG hirez stills. Then create your audio clips and encode to MPEG1Layer2 (aka MP2), using your encoder of choice (toolame, TMPGEnc, Mainconcept, etc). Then demux you MPEG stills into individual elementary video streams. Make sure you're naming the matching still w/ the video.
Then get a copy of SVCDSTL that I'm currently hosting as a goody on my site. What it does is remux the elementary video stream(s) with the matching audio stream and corrects for the stream ID differences between Video MPEGs and Still MPEGs. Voila!
Then author (VCDEASY again) and burn. Works correctly in the majority of hardware and software DVD/VCD players.

There is a guide or two about how to do this somewhere around here. I've successfully created a number of "AVCD" band compilation discs this way.

Scott

[jungle5150]

Thanks for the input guys. Let me give a little more information I should have said in the first place...

As I mentioned, I'm using linux. So I do most things from there. I do have access to a windows box with nerovision.

I've generated the mpeg stills using a guide from this site.

1. resize to 704x480
2. use mjpeg tools to convert to mpeg2 video.

jpeg2yuv -v 0 -f 29.97 -j IMAGE.jpg -I p -n 1 \
| mpeg2enc -v 0 -a 2 -T 200 -n n -f 7 -o IMAGE.m2v

So this is what i've got now. No need to demux, if i'm not mistaken, because I've already got the m2v stream.

3. mplex -f 7 -o test.mpg test.m2v test.mp2

Cornucopia, I had actually read a how-to that I believe you made that outlined the same procedure. I tried remuxing with mplex from mjpeg tools, and got the results described in the first post. (audio starts. pic comes up after a few seconds. image goes black. audio ends.).

I've tried to use the svcdstl that you mentioned. I had to mplex the files for them to show up in the program. Then it says they are not "SVCD compatible".

[bill@linuxbox test]$ mpginfo test.m2v
test.m2v
Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 00.12s
Aspect ratio 4/3 (TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Video Format: NTSC
Size [704 x 480] 29.97 fps 2.50 Mbps
[bill@linuxbox test]$ mpginfo shinig-star.mp2
shinig-star.mp2
Audio : Mpeg 1 layer 2
Estimated Duration: 13.01s
64 kbps 44100 Hz
Frame size: 208 bytes
Stereo, No emphasis, original

Any suggestions? (will try vcd easy a little later)

Thanks
Bill

[Midzuki]

Some possibilities:

--- the .mpg you're using does not have a SVCD header;

--- the mp2 stream is being identified as VBR even though it really is CBR;

--- both things;

--- none of the above

[minidv2dvd]

svcd is 480x480 ntsc. period.

[Cornucopia]

svcd is 480x480 ntsc. period.

Uhh, NO...

Maybe you should look up Videohelp's "What is SVCD?" (It's not top level anymore, but you can get to it via "What is VCD?".
Remember, we're talking about an MPEG Still Picture NOT video. Video is 480x480 for NTSC, Stills are 704x480 or 480x480 for NTSC. period.

>OP,
Did you remultiplex the Still AS IF it were video, with the audio, into a MPEG2 SVCD PS prior to starting SVCDSTL? I forgot to mention that step, but did just notice it in the readme...

Scott

[minidv2dvd]

maybe you should consider that once you add audio it's not stills anymore.

so with audio it's 480x480 or nothing.

[Alex_ander]

maybe you should consider that once you add audio it's not stills anymore.

so with audio it's 480x480 or nothing.

Yup, in SVCD mode with audio it will be slide show-type movie, not stills+audio. In DVD folder mode it is possible to have MPEG stills+audio (in VTS title domain) with the same navigation as on DVD. As I said, DVDLab 2.xx does it in audio title (not slide show) mode. No batch processing unfortunately, all source pictures should be 720x540 png's.

[Cornucopia]

Stills -- With or Without Audio -- are still stills, if done correctly. I'm not talking here about an NLE app where you add stills with audio under and then render as video. I'm talking about generating stills, muxing them with audio -- AS IF it were video -- and THEN using that app to correct the MPEG Stream ID so that decoders/players correctly understand the stream as "Stills+Audio"

Here's an example:
Create a Hi+Lo Rez MPEG still for VCD. It'll have e.g. Stream ID #s: 01 for Lo Rez still (352x240) and 02 for Hi Rez still (704x480). Create an MPEG video stream. It'll have Stream ID #: 00 for the video (??C0 for the audio??, something like that).

Take a demuxed Still and mux with demuxed audio, it'll have Stream ID#s: 00 for still, just like video...
Use the SVCDSTL app and it'll fix the stream ID # to 01 again like it would have had originally, had it never been muxed with audio. I got this straight from the author of the app.

BTW, this creates files that match the (compliant) output from VCDTLKT2. It doesn't have to go through this "corrective" phase, but is lots harder to work with.

Have you even successfully made these before? I have.

Scott

[minidv2dvd]

and it plays in a standalone dvd player? it's not in the svcd specs. what you are creating seems like a hybrid of some sort. bent rules but still plays.

were you binary (justin) also? i looked up the old posts about avcd. not that cd video is used much anymore, with cd blank prices about the same as dvd blanks there just isn't much call for (s)vcd. i made plenty back when they were useful. i-author was such a pain.

[Cornucopia]

Just looked at the Philips spec and "What is SVCD?" tech documents/whitepapers...

Says, (bold formatting added for emphasis)

A Play item may be one of the following items:
The whole or part of an MPEG Audio/Video track,
One, or More, MPEG encoded Still pictures with, or without MPEG audio
MPEG audio with no pictures
Motion picture, with or without MPEG audio

Yes it plays in standalones. No rules bent that I can see...

This sure seems to be the answer to what the OP was looking for.
I don't understand why everyone seems dead set to say it can't/shouldn't be done.

Scott

[Midzuki]

Cornucopia wrote:

I don't understand why everyone seems dead set to say it can't/shouldn't be done.

Count me out! ^_^

[jungle5150]

Here's the output from my muxing program

command: mplex -f 7 -o test.mpg test.m2v shinig-star.mp2

INFO: [mplex] mplex version 1.9.0 (2.2.7 $Date: 2006/02/01 22:23:01 $)
INFO: [mplex] File test.m2v looks like an MPEG Video stream.
INFO: [mplex] File shinig-star.mp2 looks like an MPEG Audio stream.
INFO: [mplex] Found 1 audio streams and 1 video streams
INFO: [mplex] Selecting SVCD output profile
INFO: [mplex] Multiplexing SVCD stills: 1 stills streams 1 audio streams
INFO: [mplex] Stills Stream e1: high-resolution SVCD stills.
INFO: [mplex] VIDEO STREAM: e1
INFO: [mplex] Frame width : 704
INFO: [mplex] Frame height : 480
INFO: [mplex] Aspect ratio : 4:3 display
INFO: [mplex] Picture rate : 29.970 frames/sec
INFO: [mplex] Bit rate : 2500000 bits/sec
INFO: [mplex] Vbv buffer size : 225280 bytes
INFO: [mplex] CSPF : 0
INFO: [mplex] Scanning for header info: Audio stream c0 (shinig-star.mp2)
INFO: [mplex] MPEG AUDIO STREAM: c0
INFO: [mplex] Audio version : 1.0
INFO: [mplex] Layer : 2
INFO: [mplex] CRC checksums : no
INFO: [mplex] Bit rate : 8192 bytes/sec ( 64 kbit/sec)
INFO: [mplex] Frequency : 44100 Hz
INFO: [mplex] Mode : 0 stereo
INFO: [mplex] Mode extension : 0
INFO: [mplex] Copyright bit : 0 no copyright
INFO: [mplex] Original/Copy : 1 original
INFO: [mplex] Emphasis : 0 none
INFO: [mplex] SYSTEMS/PROGRAM stream:
INFO: [mplex] rough-guess multiplexed stream data rate : 2619344
INFO: [mplex] target data-rate specified : 2788800
INFO: [mplex] Setting specified specified data rate: 2788800
INFO: [mplex] Scanned to end AU 0
INFO: [mplex] Run-in delay = 69069 Video delay = 69069 Audio delay = 159159
INFO: [mplex] New sequence commences...
INFO: [mplex] Video e1: buf= 0 frame=000000 sector=00000000
INFO: [mplex] Audio c0: buf= 0 frame=000000 sector=00000000
INFO: [mplex] STREAM e1 completed
INFO: [mplex] STREAM c0 completed
INFO: [mplex] Multiplex completion at SCR=1240200.
INFO: [mplex] Video e1: completed
INFO: [mplex] Audio c0: completed
INFO: [mplex] VIDEO_STATISTICS: e1
INFO: [mplex] Video Stream length: 37577 bytes
INFO: [mplex] Sequence headers: 1
INFO: [mplex] Sequence ends : 1
INFO: [mplex] No. Pictures : 1
INFO: [mplex] No. Groups : 1
INFO: [mplex] No. I Frames : 1 avg. size 37577 bytes
INFO: [mplex] No. P Frames : 0 avg. size 0 bytes
INFO: [mplex] No. B Frames : 0 avg. size 0 bytes
INFO: [mplex] Average bit-rate : 9009200 bits/sec
INFO: [mplex] Peak bit-rate : 0 bits/sec
INFO: [mplex] BUFFERING stream too short for useful statistics
INFO: [mplex] AUDIO_STATISTICS: c0
INFO: [mplex] Audio stream length 104071 bytes.
INFO: [mplex] Syncwords : 498
INFO: [mplex] Frames : 11 padded
INFO: [mplex] Frames : 487 unpadded
INFO: [mplex] BUFFERING stream too short for useful statistics
INFO: [mplex] MUX STATUS: no under-runs detected.

looks like it's not putting the video as stream 00. I think it's e1. Is that a problem?

Bill

[jungle5150]

Interesting development....


I tried encoding the mpeg file using the standard svcd format instead of the svcd stills format. The resulting file showed up in svcdstl, but it does not detect the muxed audio stream. I tried generating the new mpeg anyway, and it worked. Audio is still there, even though svcdstl didn't detect it.

The new file made by svcdstl shows up as "not svcd still compatible" in svcdstl. This is interesting. It may mean that my other file has been right all along (the one I made with mplex -f 7). The -f 7 was supposed to be for svcd stills. The -f 4 is plain svcd, and that's what allowed the mpeg to show up in svcdstl.

Another note: running my mpginfo program on both the svcdstl result and the mplex -f 7 result causes it to quit with a bad alloc. this doesn't happen with -f 4. This also leads me to believe that both are correct stills+audio.

When I play either one in a video player, the still shows up and the music plays. All of the players tend to freak out (including wmp) and don't show any time counter activity. They are also unresponsive until the video+audio end. Very odd to me, but I'm encouraged that the output of svcdstl behaves exactly the same way as my mplex -f 7 file.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to burn and try. (or maybe just make an iso and open in powerdvd).

Bill

[Midzuki]

I guess the only way to know for sure is to burn and try.

Correct. The difference between "before svcdstl" and "after svcdstl" is
only 4 bytes in the middle of the mpg container. BUT if your standalone player
is not picky, svcdstl becomes unnecessary.

(or maybe just make an iso and open in powerdvd).

Forget PowerDVD.

[jungle5150]

update after a while...

I created an xml file for vcdimager (which also does svcds) and made a bin/cue image that would burn to a cd. I mounted it in a virtual cd drive using daemon tools and then opened powerdvd. To my great delight, the virtual disc played perfectly in powerdvd, complete with skip functionality that I had programmed into the xml authoring file.

so now I have set about recording commentary for all the pictures (385 of them). I'm nearing the end, and it seems that I will have a ton of space left on the svcd. so far all the images in m2v format are only 20 MB. audio recorded so far is 60MB (313/385). I'm using only 64kbit/s 3200Khz sampling rate mp2, because the audio is just my voice.

So this extra space is pretty good. I don't know how much overhead there will be in the svcd authoring of the still stream, but I doubt it will be much. I plan on putting in short videos I took as well with the still camera. turns out they're encoded as motionjpeg with uncompressed pcm mono audio. no wonder they were so huge. so I'll have to transcode them.

why do you say forget powerdvd?

bill

[jungle5150]

[s:99b1416461]Almost[/s:99b1416461] complete success !!! I've got a cd that plays in my dvd player. All the stills run perfectly with audio. I've also made a menu using Gimp, and it works as well. So far, 1 Magnavox player and 1 govideo player haven't wanted to play the disc, but two others have. I've decided to post a few scripts that I made to help me along the way.

I make no claims about the quality of these scripts. I can only say that they worked for me. They are highly tailored to my application. I concatenated them all into 1 file with ######## dividers.

bill

p.s. for those using this as a reference, here is a link to another thread in which I had quality issues with the mpeg stills. the secret is a custom quantization matrix

the other post


myscripts