8mm to Digital - Record to MiniDV vs Pass-through

[tripecac]

I need to convert about 30 standard 8mm tapes to digital, so that I can edit them and archive them on DVD. Most of the 8mm tapes are 2 hours long. I'm assuming that most MiniDV tapes are 60 minutes long.

I have a Hi8 camcorder (Sony CCD-TRV108), a MiniDV camcorder (Canon ZR40), and cables (s-video, firewire). With this setup, I have 2 options for getting the standard 8mm tapes onto the computer:

OPTION A - Record to MiniDV
1) record from Hi8 camcorder to MiniDV camcorder via s-video [probably requires multiple MiniDV tapes]
2) capture from MiniDV to PC via firewire

OPTION B - Pass-through
1) play Hi8 camcorder through MiniDV (w/o recording) while capturing from MiniDV to PC via firewire

The first option seems slower and less convenient, since it requires me to wait until each MiniDV tape fills up, rewind the original 8mm tape a bit, record to the next MiniDV, etc. And then I have to wait during each digital capture. When I am finally, done capturing, I still need to splice together the captures to make sure the original 2 hours plays without interruption.

However, I read somewhere that the first option will usually result in fewer sync-related glitches. I guess this is because computers can get distracted by background processes and miss some frames, whereas a camcorder only has one task (to record input). That makes sense, at least in theory. However, I don't know if the difference is significant on my system, or if the advice is mostly for older computers (with a bunch of background processes).

So I am wondering:

For those of you who have tried both methods (record to minidv vs pass-through), did you notice a difference in quality one way or the other? Or were they the same?

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

I'd play the Hi8 tapes in the Hi8 camera, s-video into DV camera, and capture on PC while the Hi8 plays through. No DV tapes.

The errors you hear about are almost always due to crappy computers. Do not run other software (disable Internet connection, anti-virus, firewalls, other software, etc) and do only the DV transfer using WinDV (not an NLE like Premiere, Vegas, etc).

[tripecac]

Would WinDV let me know if it thinks it missed a frame of analog content? Or is there know way it would know?

[edDV]

I agree that if you have the pass-through feature, you don't need to go through MiniDV tape. That more than doubles your time to capture.

The drop issue is caused when the target drive becomes unavailable due to OS, antivirus or other processes taking interrupt priority over the DV capture stream. This mostly happens with older laptops or when attempting a capture to an external USB2 or Firewire drive. It rarely happens when capping to an internal desktop 2nd drive or an external eSATA drive.

[edDV]

Would WinDV let me know if it thinks it missed a frame of analog content? Or is there know way it would know?

WinDV reports dropped frames but nor dropped pixels or lines. WinDV has a buffer that usually allows reliable captures up until the buffer overfills. Then you see a flood of dropped frames.

The one flaw in WinDV is it fails to detect a full disk partition. It continues with no warning. This will be a potential issue if you are capping 27GB (2hr) at a time. You can set WinDV to stop capture after a specified number of frames (~3600 frames per minute).

[2Bdecided]

Absolutely no difference between the two methods (if your PC had a problem capturing, it would happen either way!), however if you wanted miniDV as backup, I wonder if you can record to miniDV and capture to the PC at the same time?

Cheers,
David.

[tripecac]

Thanks for the info, guys!!! I will try the pass-through method.

By the way, I don't intend to use MiniDV tapes as back-ups... DVDs will do fine.

I have a follow-up question, but I don't know if it merits a different topic:

What are the ideal settings for WinDV when I do the pass-through capture, given that my source material will be 2-hour long standard 8mm tapes and my goal is to be able to edit the videos before creating DVDs?

Currently, my WinDV settings are (I assume) still at the defaults:

1) checked: type-2 AVI (vids+auds)
2) Discontinuity threshold (sec): 1
3) Max AVI size (frames): 22500
4) Every N-th frame: 1

I'm guessing I want to increase MAX AVI size (frames) to (3600 * 60 = 216000, plus a little bit more, so let's say 220000).

In addition, http://www.dvd-guides.com/content/view/33/59/ says I should change Discontinuity threshold to 0

So does that mean I want this:

1) checked: type-2 AVI (vids+auds)
2) Discontinuity threshold (sec): 0
3) Max AVI size (frames): 220000
4) Every N-th frame: 1

Also, are there any problems with using Vegas Movie Studio 8.0 for editing and DVD Architect Studio 4.5 for DVD menu creation? Are those going to do a decent job of preserving the quality, given the type-2 AVI format outputted by WinDV?

Thanks a ton!

[edDV]

I wonder if you can record to miniDV and capture to the PC at the same time?

Cheers,
David.

Every DV camcorder I've used outputs live DV while recording to tape.

[edDV]

So does that mean I want this:

1) checked: type-2 AVI (vids+auds)
2) Discontinuity threshold (sec): 0
3) Max AVI size (frames): 220000
4) Every N-th frame: 1

Also, are there any problems with using Vegas Movie Studio 8.0 for editing and DVD Architect Studio 4.5 for DVD menu creation? Are those going to do a decent job of preserving the quality, given the type-2 AVI format outputted by WinDV?

Thanks a ton!

Looks good but I thought you were going for two hour captures.

I haven't used Vegas Movie Studio for awhile but recall encoder settings were limited. I found a workaround where project settings offered more settings and the encoder menu had a "use project settings" check mark. The Movie Studio version of Architect was also limited compared to full Vegas.

[tripecac]

Oh yeah! 2 hrs would be more like 440,000 frames, right?

Is there an easy way to calculate how much disk space 2 hrs of type-2 AVI needs?

[edDV]

Oh yeah! 2 hrs would be more like 440,000 frames, right?

Is there an easy way to calculate how much disk space 2 hrs of type-2 AVI needs?

Figure about 13GB/hr. Most of the variation is in number of PCM audio channels carried.