Mix fullscreen and wide screen in DVD Lab?

[stantheman1976]

I'm working on a video for the senior class at my wife's school and have some mixed footage I need to play in chronological order. One segment of about 15 minutes in the middle is widescreen shot on a Panasonic PV-GS320 and everything else is fullscreen. With DVD Lab Pro 2 is there any way I can get it to play in order and appear correctly? If I put them all in the same VTS the widescreen segment gets stretched to fullscreen.

[tinker]

You have to use two VTS one for 16:9 and other for 4:3. You cannot mix formats in one VTS. Menus are OK, but not titles. That is you can have 4:3 menu and 16:9 title.
You can use a "Bridge" to jump from one title in one VTS to a title in other VTS and back. This will play titles as you want. For each jump one bridge.

[FulciLives]

If this will be watched on a 4:3 TV then you can re-encode the widescreen footage to 4:3 Letterbox format or if it will be watched on a 16x9 TV then you can encode the Full Screen material to Widescreen (resize and add black to the sides).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SCDVD]

If this will be watched on a 4:3 TV then you can re-encode the widescreen footage to 4:3 Letterbox format or if it will be watched on a 16x9 TV then you can encode the Full Screen material to Widescreen (resize and add black to the sides).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

tinker has the correct suggestion. Don't start slapping black borders on it. Let the TV do that. Your 16:9 segment should be anamorphic. With lesser authoring programs, that ham-fisted approach might be the only way to cobble it together but DVD Lap Pro has the ability to handle this very nicely. I have done several projects just as tinker suggested and they work great. It doesn't matter if you play it on a 4:3 or 16:9 TV. Whatever you do, don't try to jam the black borders on the TV; the TV will take care of that. You can even have the video play through from one aspect ration to the other without any problems but it's important to use the bridge or it won't work.

[manono]

tinker has the correct suggestion.

Maybe yes, maybe no. If stantheman1976 doesn't want pauses when the video is jumping from one VTS to the other and back again, then he should encode everything to one DAR and one title. In documentaries and other videos where both "fullscreen" and "widescreen" footage are found, it's usually done by encoding everything together to a single title. That is, if the vast majority of the video is fullscreen footage, as this one seems to be, that widescreen bit will be encoded as letterboxed 4:3. In fact, I've never seen a retail DVD with mixed source footage done as the 2 of you are describing, whereas I've seen many where everything is converted to a single DAR.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the 2 of you, but only pointing out an instance where it might be preferable to make it all into a single title. In the interests of keeping the highest resolution possible tinker's suggestion is the way to go, but there's nothing out of line or wacky about FulciLives' suggestion as an alternative. And it has nothing to do with "lesser" authoring programs or a "ham-fisted" approach. Retail DVD releases use much better authoring programs and they still choose to put it into a single title.

[stantheman1976]

You have to use two VTS one for 16:9 and other for 4:3. You cannot mix formats in one VTS. Menus are OK, but not titles. That is you can have 4:3 menu and 16:9 title.
You can use a "Bridge" to jump from one title in one VTS to a title in other VTS and back. This will play titles as you want. For each jump one bridge.

This is something I've never done or heard of in DVD Lab. How do I do this?

[tinker]

You put all the movies in correct VTS, than "Bridge" is one of icons in connection window(bottom part) 6th from right.
Place it in connection window and connect, let say, end of movie1 in VTS1 to bridge in and out of bridge to start of movie1 in VTS2, than new bridge, end of movie1 in VTS2 to start of movie2 or 3 in VTS1 and so on. This depend on your sequence.
Movies in same VTS are connected end to start, usual way.
You can make menu in one VTS from where you want to start.
What bridge does, is create PGC in WMG domain to navigate between VTS titles.
It can be done also in PgcEdit or DVDRemake or other command editor, but Lab will do it for you.

One more thing.
If you have a menu button and want to connect to a movie in other VTS, than connect button to a bridge and bridge to a movie in other VTS.

[stantheman1976]

I do understand what you're saying but let me make sure I have it straight. I want to have 1 main menu with 2 links. Link 1 plays the graduation commencement then goes back to main menu. Link 2 plays 3 other segments in order, the middle segment being the WS video. So I place the first and third segments in VTS 1 and the second in VTS 2. I add Bridge 1 and Bridge 2. I draw the following connections:
Segment 1 in VTS 1 > Bridge 1
Bridge 1 > Segment 2 in VTS 2
Segment 2 in VTS 2 > Bridge 2
Bridge 2 > Segment 3 in VTS 1

Does that look right?

[stantheman1976]

If this will be watched on a 4:3 TV then you can re-encode the widescreen footage to 4:3 Letterbox format or if it will be watched on a 16x9 TV then you can encode the Full Screen material to Widescreen (resize and add black to the sides).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

50 copies of this will be going to 50 different places so there won't be a set format it's played on. That's why I wanted to keep it the way it was encoded and let the individuals' hardware take care of it.

[guns1inger]

Unfortunately, the way widescreen TVs and DVD players are set up around the place varies to wildly - especially in the US, for some reason, you will have less control over how it appears if you use multiple titles with different aspect ratios. At least encoding them to a common standard means they will be consistently right or consistently wrong at each viewing point.

You could even do a widescreen and fullscreen version of the combined clip, so people have a choice. Certainly that is the way I would have proceeded

[tinker]

Yes this is correct.
I added a comment about a menu button, you may look at that one, if you need it.

[stantheman1976]

I understand where you're coming from. The bridge method worked and I'll probably leave it at that. It's going to high school students who mostly don't know anything about what it means to mix video types and think cell phone video is good. I also saw the video done last year by a "professional" and it was sloppy. It was recorded onto a standalone recorder with auto chapters and tons raw footage that no one will sit through. I've already improved 10X on what the administration last year thought was fantastic and I already have a contract for next year's ceremony. So either way they will still be satisfied.

[tinker]

Unfortunately, the way widescreen TVs and DVD players are set up around the place varies to wildly - especially in the US, for some reason, you will have less control over how it appears if you use multiple titles with different aspect ratios. At least encoding them to a common standard means they will be consistently right or consistently wrong at each viewing point.

I am not so sure about this. Most commercial DVD I have, have 4:3 and 16:9 in its own VTS and play fine on my system.
4:3 is usualy preview.

[stantheman1976]

Yes this is correct.
I added a comment about a menu button, you may look at that one, if you need it.

I tried it and it works well. I only have one little thing I need to know if I can change. When altering the UOP & Settings I can tall movies in the same VTS how to act when the next, previous, or menu button is pressed. Since the single title in VTS 2 is not linked to a menu it cannot return anywhere so the only option is to skip to the next movie and then go back to the main menu. It also cannot go back to the previous movie when the previous button si pressed. Is there any way to alter this?

[tinker]

It's going to high school students who mostly don't know anything about what it means to mix video types and think cell phone video is good.

I think we are on the same wave length on this one.

[stantheman1976]

It's going to high school students who mostly don't know anything about what it means to mix video types and think cell phone video is good.

I think we are on the same wave length on this one.

Well, it's going to families also who want to watch it. I also took into consideration that I was given mixed video sources and worked with what I had. Some of the clips I was give where from a DVD camcorder and one clip was from a DVD the Brodcast Journalism class had made. The original tape with the footage tape had been lost so I used what I could get. It also took me about 4 weeks longer than it should have because I was late getting the raw footage of the years events. Plus, they didn't promote this as well as they should have and overcharged. They were sold for $30 a piece which I had no control over. They're giving me a minimum order of 50 @ $15 each so I'm still making a good chunk of change, part of which I'm going to buy me a nice Sony PCM D-50 recorder with.

I also know for a fact that the 50 copies I make will get copied at least once. I can only do so much when I know it will get copied and given away.

[tinker]

I do not think Lab will do it on its own. It can be done using commands.
For this I use DVDRemake.
There is an empty root menu in VTS2, you can set pre command to direct it though WMG PGC to go to root menu of VTS1.
Than when you press Menu button on remount it will get to Root menu of VTS2 and command will direct it to root menu of VTS1.
PgcEdit is the same, but I found it not too user friendly.
In Remake I usualy delete most of Abstraction layer commands Lab create. It make DVD to move faster from one part to other.

[Alex_ander]

In Remake I usualy delete most of Abstraction layer commands Lab create. It make DVD to move faster from one part to other.

I remember cleaning up from absolutely foolish commands after DLP: VTS menu buttons passed chapter selection commands to VMG instead of going to internal title' chapters. Exotic calculations were involved using 2 or 3 registers, then at last the commands were decoded and executed in that VTS. Real waste of time at navigation.

[tinker]

I remember cleaning up from absolutely foolish commands after DLP: VTS menu buttons passed chapter selection commands to VMG instead of going to internal title' chapters. Exotic calculations were involved using 2 or 3 registers, then at last the commands were decoded and executed in that VTS. Real waste of time at navigation.

I think Lab is doing a good job for all, new or experienced.
Some WMG chapter navigation can be found even on commercial DVD. I guess its all about authoring preference of the guy.
It is true some commands are not necessary, but that is what you pay for in software which try to accommodate all skill levels and it is doing just fine.

[SCDVD]

I remember cleaning up from absolutely foolish commands after DLP:

You weren't cleaning up after DLP. You were cleaning up after someone who didn't know how to use it. As with many well-functioned tools, it can be misused. The more powerful the tool, the more it can be misused by someone who can't and won't bother to learn how to use it properly. I suppose you also think that the only type of camcorder to use is one that only has full auto mode. Would you criticize a camcorder that had the option of selecting manual mode because some incompetent nut shot some bad footage with it so you say, "Oh, it's a bad camera."

[Alex_ander]

You weren't cleaning up after DLP.

"The more powerful the tool", the more redundant code it leaves in its edited command list templates without any reason. As you have guessed my example was someone's else authoring job, but I have to do cleaning too often - no one seems to be able to use it properly with its imaginary bridges and the like stuff for those who don't want to learn DVD structure. I also dislike DLP for its inability to make motion menus without re-encoding MPEGs. But it is very handy for audio DVDs with stills.

I suppose you also think that the only type of camcorder to use is one that only has full auto mode.

No, I like doing things manually. Currently I use TDA1.6 or Muxman for making titles, make menus with TDA3, set navigation and assemble things together in DVDRemake.

[stantheman1976]

Well I've got some other issues that seem to be going on now. I compiled the DVD and burned with ImgBurn verifying successfully. When I play it on my normal DVD player we use it plays in correct AR and order but there are glitches in the video often on the whole 2+ hour disc. When I play it in my Philips recorder there seem to be no glitches but the 3 mixed segments play out of order keeping me from returning to the main menu when it should. It plays them in the order of segment 1,3, and 2. Since 2 is supposed to lead to 3 when it plays out of order it doesn't lead anywhere. On my PC and laptop th order is correct.

The glitches are what bother me the most. The AVI files I encoded from are fine. I checked them to make sure. The compiled DVD on hard drive is hard to judge. There are spots where it looks like there could be a glitch but it is minor enough that it could be just from playing on a PC. On the one DVD player they were really pronounced jerks and glitches. They were not macro blocks.

The M2V files were encoded with TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 VBR with 4200 average and 9250 maximum. Is it possible that setting the max above 8000 can cause trouble? I hate to re-encode the whole thing but I may have to. I need to go after I write this and check the M2V files on my laptop and see if they glitch anywhere.

Edit:
I checked the compiled DVD on my laptop hard drive and it plays fine there. So it's either just my particular player or something with the level of compression. With the length of the project it filled the disc almost to the edge. Could that cause issues? I'm burning a copy from my laptop hard drive right now to see if anything is wrong. The first copy I burned was on my PC Sony drive which has worked flawlessly and the files were on a portable hard drive I had copied them to.

[tomlee59]

The closer to the edge you go, the less tolerance there is. If the media quality is a bit off, then there may a high bit error rate there, as focus gets dicey, and radial runout and other mechanical problems stress the track-following servo. Also, if you are a bit careless about handling, it's altogether too easy to get a fingerprint on the media near the edge, which is almost guaranteed to cause burn errors (remember: playback is somewhat forgiving of fingerprints, but burning is not). If the files play fine from the hard drive, but not from the burned disc, try burning again, with top-flight media, and perhaps at a notch below the maximum burn speed and see if things get better.

[stantheman1976]

I'm using TY DVD-R 8X inkjet printables from supermediastore.com. I burned another copy directly from the laptop hard drive and it works fine. I do handle the discs with as much care as possible. I order the 100 count spindle and put them in the spindle cases and usually check each one visually before using it. That one disc is the first time I've encountered the glitching issue. That's why it threw me off. I wouldn't think that bitrate on a VBR encoding would cause the DVD player to stutter. Even though the max was set to 9250 how often could an almost 2 1/2 hour disc get close to that?

[tinker]

High bitratre may be a problem on some older DVD players, but like you say, 2 1/2 hour video on DVD5 will be about 4000kbs.
It is quite possible it was a bad disc. TY is a god brand. I use the same one and never had problem with those, but anything is possible.
Only once I had a problem when during burn other software started to look for update even when Internet connection was off.
Now I shut everything down.