Problem with S-Video: only getting black/white, Composite works fine!

[x92]

Hello!

Im having a little problem here. I have a DVB-S decoder which outputs 2 SCART outputs. I have one SCART cable going to TV and to the other SCART ouput Ive put a SCART > Composite & S-Video converter. Right now Im using a pretty long Composite video cable (10 meters) from the converter's output to get signal to my KWorld analog USB TV card with Composite and S-Video inputs. Right now everything is fine except I get a horrible dotcrawl.

I read about the difference between Composite and S-Video and found out that S-Video will have no dotcrawl, so I searched for my 1.5 meters long S-Video cable and found it, then plugged into SCART > S-video converter and attached the other end to KWorld, but when I opened capture program and switched from Composite input to S-Video input then all I got was black/white picture.

Link to where I read about Composite and S-Video differences

http://nfggames.com/atarilabs/meat/2000/1201_videoprimer.shtml

Picture of Composite


Picture of S-Video


Picture of my config at the back of DVB-S decoder


Image of cables used
From left to right:
S-Video cable used (4 pins), S-Video Input to Kworld, Composite Inputs to Kworld



Any kind of help is welcome!

[videobread]

Since the composite works, it sounds like a bad connection in the s-system. Probably the s- cable or the s connection on your unit. I'd try another cable.

[x92]

Okay just tested the cable for outputing from laptop to TV and it worked fine. Therefore the problem might be in the cable between Kworld and S-Video cable, but I cant plug in the S-Video cable directly to KWorld.

[themaster1]

On your satellite decoder you should have the option s-vhs/pal you must pick s-vhs. I got a sat decoder like you and it works just fine.It also works with PAL (with a s-video cable) but that's not the same quality...

[x92]

Its a Samsung decoder with Viasat firmware.

I found Video signal type under TV settings, you can change between RGB (current) and CVBS (tried before but didnt make any progress), and thats it, there are no other options.

[edDV]

Great to see you are getting Discovery in Estonia.

I need to think about why your caps are full of subcarrier dots.

Pardon my cluelessness but is this an NTSC or PAL capture? Either one should have a notch filter at subcarrier. Are you receiving NTSC to a PAL system or visa versa?

[themaster1]

Its a Samsung decoder with Viasat firmware.

I found Video signal type under TV settings, you can change between RGB (current) and CVBS (tried before but didnt make any progress), and thats it, there are no other options.

CVBS= composite

On my sat decoder i got two outputs:

1: is for regular TV and i can pick RGB or composite

2: is for VCR (S-vhs(y/c) /pal/ secam)

[x92]

Great to see you are getting Discovery in Estonia.

I need to think about why your caps are full of subcarrier dots.

Pardon my cluelessness but is this an NTSC or PAL capture? Either one should have a notch filter at subcarrier. Are you receiving NTSC to a PAL system or visa versa?

PAL

Its a Samsung decoder with Viasat firmware.

I found Video signal type under TV settings, you can change between RGB (current) and CVBS (tried before but didnt make any progress), and thats it, there are no other options.

CVBS= composite

On my sat decoder i got two outputs:

1: is for regular TV and i can pick RGB or composite

2: is for VCR (S-vhs(y/c) /pal/ secam)

Yes I have 2 SCART outputs at back, one for TV and other for VHS, tried both of them, but doesnt solve problem.

[themaster1]

Change you cable then or your scart "in/out signal switcher" OR both because obviously something is wrong.

But first, check if there is something in the menu of your decoder for the vcr output "s-vhs/pal" OR another possibility is at the rear of your sat decoder a button to switch on/off the s-vhs (Y/C) signal

see external image

[x92]

Change you cable then or your scart "in/out signal switcher" OR both because obviously something is wrong.

But first, check if there is something in the menu of your decoder for the vcr ouput "s-vhs/pal" OR another possibility is at the rear of your sat decoder a button to switch on/off the s-vhs (Y/C) signal

Ive tried the SCART>Svideo converter in both TV and VHS outputs (SCART) of my decoder, and converter is obviously switched to Output or it wouldnt work (tested)

And all my decoder has is: LNB coax input, power input, L&R audio outputs, Digital Audio output, 1 TV Scart output, 1 VHS Scart output



Also notice the horrible dotcrawl around Viasat logo

[themaster1]

Disconnect the 2 scarts at the rear and tell me what's written for both of them

Normally on one there should be written "TV" and the other" VCR" maybe you mixed up the two.

If there is no option on your menu and no switch at the rear for the Y/C on/off then i'm affraid your decoder doesn't support this kind of output signal (that would be unusual for a sat decoder though)

[x92]

I usually have my TV in VHS output and my KWorld in TV output because the cables fit better like that, but today I tried changing my KWorld between TV and VHS, but they seem to be outputting the same signal.

Also there, have some more pictures of decoder

[Richard_G]

The lack of colour is due to supplying an S-Video input with a composite signal or a composite signal to an S-Video input. Somewhere you have a mismatch and at first I suspected that it was in the SCART adapter. But thinking about it, as you have a choice between RGB and CVBS, I rather suspect it is your receiver. It can't output S-Video! A lot of them will only do Composite or RGB through SCART but have a separate Mini-DIN for S-Video.

Composite (CVBS) uses pin 19
RGB uses pins 7 (Blue), 11 (Green) and 15 (Red)
S-Video uses pins 15 (Chrominance) and 19 (Luminance)

Hence you can see that you have a signal on pin 19 but not one on 15 which is why you have no colour.

Have a look at the charts at the bottom of this page http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

[x92]

Hello Richard_G,
so you think that my Scart>Svideo converter is faulty or just mixes things up? Well thats the only one I found in shop and I dont think Im gonna find anything else.



Also I added some more pictures to the post above.

[themaster1]

A lot of them will only do Composite or RGB through SCART but have a separate Mini-DIN for S-Video.

True, but you can't make this a general rule.

My decoder output a Y/C signal through the scart (i use a in/out switcher like X92) and this is the (old) official decoder of my sat.channels provider...

no separate y/c output is present

note:

In the picture you are in the "Tv settings" .

If your sat decoder support the Y/c signal out, there must have an option somewhere else (please check your manual to be sure)

[x92]

Ive no idea if it helps but here are pictures of my KWorld (KWorld PVR-TV 300U)





As we can see there, my Kworld has VIVO (Video In Video Out) input next to RF.
Protip: dont notice the DVB logo on Kworld because its just the case, poor Kworld
didnt had monies to make new case so they used their leftovers.

[edDV]

The second picture above (from the top) looks like composite PAL sent down the Y channel of S-Video (subcarrier unfiltered) but I'm still trying to figure why.

Over here this is how composite PAL appears on an NTSC TV.

[aedipuss]

try unplugging the yellow(composite) when trying to use the s-video. it's in the capture software that you should have a option to change from composite to s-video input. make sure to switch it before capturing. i'd also put the audio cables on the scart out plugs.

[x92]

try unplugging the yellow(composite) when trying to use the s-video. it's in the capture software that you should have a option to change from composite to s-video input. make sure to switch it before capturing. i'd also put the audio cables on the scart out plugs.

Yes I unplugged Composite video, and left only S-Video attached. And in capture program iuVCR I switched between Composite and S-Video

The second picture above (from the top) looks like composite PAL sent down the Y channel of S-Video (subcarrier unfiltered) but I'm still trying to figure why.

Over here this is how composite PAL appears on an NTSC TV.

Well Ive read a little and Im just guessing that my Kworld doesnt get one of the 4 pins of this S-Video cable, well the problem has to be in Scart>Svideo converter because when using it otherwise (laptop SVideo out to TV's Scart) it works fine, therefore theres a bug with connecting correct pins I guess (converter connecting the Scart pin and Svideo cable pin), if you get what I mean.

Also I guess that I found some useful information, check there http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=7984757&postcount=6
so according to this post I am supposed to get only black and white.

I also found some website saying that with their converter, they guarantee me color picture http://www.svideo.com/svideoscart.html

And now after doing some more research Ive found out that S-Video and Composite use one same pin (20 if i remember correctly) so that makes the S-Video output to lose colors. In that post https://forum.videohelp.com/topic273362.html#1338484 I read out that you can fix it by yourself (am I right?) by opening the converter up and doing something in it.

Also a quote from doom9 forum

If you don't have a dedicated S-Video out on the back of your box, then you cant get an S-Video signal out of it. A Scart to S-Video lead will create a poor quality black and white picture.

Source: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=345548#post345548

So according to that Doom9 topic, its imossible to turn SCART into S-Video.

[Richard_G]

As I already pointed out, unless you have an option in your Satellite receiver menu to output S-Video, you won't get S-Video out. You have only 2 choices, RGB, which you can't use as you don't have an RGB input on your KWorld device, or CVBS (Composite). No matter what you do with the cabling, it isn't going to work as S-Video, end of story.

Incidentally, I've got a DVB-T decoder plugged into my All-in-Wonder Composite in for recording off air. That is the same, I would have preferred to use S-Video but the decoder only gives the same choices as you have so I can't.

[x92]

Thanks everybody for replies, but at least I now know that its better to buy decoders with S-Video output, or even Component video, but again, thanks everybody! Have a nice day!