1080p60 media. How am I going to play it?

[Colmino]

I'm working on a video project which will ultimately be pristine 1080p60 video (much of it is multimedia from AE, meaning it was never interlaced). I would really like to be able to play it as 1080p60. This shouldn't be impossible. The PS3 and Xbox360 are capable of outputting 1080p60. Tons (most?) of the displays out there can accept 1080p60 and display it natively.

But I'm struggling with options. What can I use to play the file?

I will preface with the following: Using a Windows box (any Windows box) to actually play the video is not an option. I've toyed with at least 100 different Windows boxes, and not one of them was capable of giving me a consistently flat framerate, quite regardless of the pc's power and the demands of the media. A flat framerate is quite simply beyond the capability of the OS. No need to profess difference on the topic; I've got plenty of personal experience.

With that out of the way, let's see what's left.

Xbox360 or PS3: As far as I know, you can get these two beasts to play media either from disc or via a media server. I can't go the disc route because the video is 1080p and will be over two hours long. (And I don't have a Blu-ray burner, but more on that later.) There just isn't enough space on one DVDR9 for that bulk of media at that resolution, without a dramatic reduction in quality.

Streaming is a possibility. I could see myself bringing a mini pc along to hook up to a PS3 or Xbox360. They are solid platforms, unlike Windows, and can guarantee a reliable framerate. But then we come to another problem: Does either of those two platforms even _allow_ 1080p60 media at this time? The HD-DVD / Blu-ray specs do not permit it. That may or may not be a factor. What could be a factor is any possible bandwidth limitations the two consoles impose, or their basic ability to decode 1080p60 media encoded at a moderately high bitrate. It doesn't much matter to me that the PS3 is still not able to do better than stereo audio in hd media.

Anyway, I figure the odds are fair that the PS3 and Xbox360 will be disqualified due to the simple inability to deal with 1080p60 media of any type. And that would seem to leave Linux. If I truly must pursue that option, I'd first like some opinion as to whether or not a Linux box would be capable of reliably outputting 1080p60.

Now I have to consider the distinct possibility that a Linux solution won't even be an option for me. And that brings me full circle to the two gaming consoles, this time in consideration of their 1080i60 media playback capabilities. I'm pretty sure they're both able to handle such a thing, so I guess all that I would need to know is which one handles it better. It'd be great if one could play this stuff off the hdd built into the console(s), but both manufacturers seem to have an anti-consumer attitude about such things.

That about sums it up. The final days of my video project's timeline are fast approaching, and I didn't want to run the risk of not having answers to this critical facet of the project. Thanks for reading.

[Soopafresh]

Is the source really 60fps or are the frames repeated?

Which codec are you using to render - h264? mpeg2?

[Colmino]

Is the source really 60fps or are the frames repeated?

Definitely 1080p60. That is how I have rendered all of my After Effects projects. They look fantastic at that resolution and framerate, too.

Which codec are you using - h264?

Yeah.. who knows? I don't, yet. I have encoded 1080p60 Quicktimes using that codec so it's definitely a strong candidate, and it's definitely able to handle that spec. It depends on what I ultimately use to output the video. If it can deal with h264 1080p60, then absolutely.

Would this work?

Unfortunately, no. Blu-ray players can output 1080p60 but they cannot stream it, and the Blu-ray spec only permits 1080i60 and 1080p24.

[Soopafresh]

If you don't get an answer here, try http://www.avsforum.com

[FulciLives]

I have a PS3 connected to my HDTV via HDMI but my HDTV is 1080i not 1080p but I'll be happy to test if you want to make some sample clips.

In other words I'll be happy to download various sample clips and see what they look like on my PS3 and 1080i HDTV.

For the record my HDTV is a Hitachi CRT RP 16x9 WS 51" 1080i HDTV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I am thinking that a PS3 is a better option than an XboX 360 based on the fact that you can stream the file to the HDD of the PS3 ... essentially a file copy ... then play it back from the HDD of the PS3. This cuts down on possible stutter and means that the PS3 can be taken anywhere with all the clips loaded on it and ready to go with no computer needed. The XboX 360 does not have this functionality as I understand it (I don't have one though).

[Colmino]

I didn't know you could put the files on the PS3's HDD (I had been told otherwise). That's superb news. The only thing that would be better would be to learn that it can play 1080p60 encodes, and to determine what limitations exist for said playback (ie, certainly it can't play a 300Mbps video, but what can it play?)

[FulciLives]

I didn't know you could put the files on the PS3's HDD (I had been told otherwise). That's superb news. The only thing that would be better would be to learn that it can play 1080p60 encodes, and to determine what limitations exist for said playback (ie, certainly it can't play a 300Mbps video, but what can it play?)

There are some H.264 encoders out there that come with PS3 profiles that will ensure that the encoded video will be compatible. My suggestion is to go with the MP4 format. The MP4 container can use H.264 video and AAC audio and if encoded to the correct specs it is compatible with the PS3.

Two program I recommend would be MeGui and XviD4PSP ... both are H.264 encoders that can also do AAC and give you a MP4 in the end that is PS3 compatible ... again if encoded using the supplied profiles or templates if you will.

As for the HDD of the PS3 ... there is no file size limit that I am aware of but if the file is over 4.0GB then you need to stream it from a computer connected via a network of some sort. Some people have tired to copy files to an external USB HDD and then hook that up to the PS3 and that does work BUT the PS3 will only recognize a USB HDD formatted to FAT32 which has that dreaded 4GB file size limit. The other alternative is to burn to a dual layer DVD disc (as a data disc) and then you are only limited to the size of the disc (what is that? ... 8.5GB or so?) but again the best way is to just stream it.

When you have a media server set up between a computer and the PS3 and you are browsing the files on the computer from the PS3 there is an option to copy the file to the HDD of the PS3. It is just that ... a file copy.

That is definitely the way to go.

Your main issue I think is what FPS the PS3 can handle.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Soopafresh]

BUT the PS3 will only recognize a USB HDD formatted to FAT32 which has that dreaded 4GB file size limit.


It might be interesting to test it with a FAT32 formatter which permits >32GB partitions. I have no idea whether it will go over the 4GB multimedia size limit, however.

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm

[SCDVD]

I didn't know you could put the files on the PS3's HDD (I had been told otherwise).

With the most recent firmware updates, the PS3 will play a number of additional video formats. That may be why you were told otherwise. If someone has older firmware, the video formats that will play are fewer. You can check and run the firmware update from the menu.

[Megahurts]

You can put files greater than 4GB on the PS3 HDD. I copied a 12GB Mpeg file to the PS3 from a BD-RE data disc and it played the whole file.

I tried a 5GB Divx file to the PS3 and it played about 4 gigs of it. May have been a bad file or a PS3 limitation for Divx.

[SCDVD]

There is a case where you will have a file size problem and that is if you use an external USD hard drive on your PS3 and you transfer the files to the hard drive by attaching it to a PC. Since the PS3 has to have a Fat 32 formatted disc, a PC can only write files to a Fat 32 formatted hard disc that are less that 4GB. This isn't a limitation with NTFS formatted hard discs on a PC but the PS3 doesn't support NTFS formatted hard discs.

[FulciLives]

If you stream from the PC to the PS3 then there is no file size limitation or if there is then it must be HUGE because I've done files up around 8GB in size (single MP4 file).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Colmino]

As far as I can tell from these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_System_Software
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_10

the PS3 supports a certain H264 spec and that spec is supposed to include 1080p60 video at up to 50Mbps. If so, perfection is attained. Especially if it turns out to be true that one can put large files on the PS3's HDD. I hope to be able to test things before long.

[FulciLives]

I know that the PS3 can handle up to Level 4.1 spec. It can't do anything above that.

Your second link has a table that includes all the various levels and what each one supports in terms of resolution and frame rate.

It basically says the following:

Examples for high resolution @ frame rate (max stored frames) in Level 4.1

1280x720 @ 68.3
1920x1088 @ 30.1
2048x1024 @ 30.0

So it looks like you are stuck at 1280x720 if you want 60fps !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
The XboX 360 also taps out at Level 4.1 or under.

[jamespranger]

I have been remuxing some MP4 releases and altering the H264 level to 4.1 so that they will play on the PS3 using lvlchange.exe and h264info. 90% of the time it works. 9% of the time the video uses variable framerate so I have to re-encode the video myself.

The recent Shinsen xxxholic kei ep7 release, however, seems to be a little strange. h264info crashes when I try to change the level, and if I use lvlchange.exe, it works, but the first 5 seconds of the video seems to be corrupted and it won't play on the PS3.

if you don't see the answer, try the Sony help site http://www.agoraquest.com