Looking for an MPEG-2 Encoder like CCE and FFMPeg Questions

[Maikeru-sama]

I tried this script to see if I could use lossless and it still crashed:

<SCRIPT>
Video = DirectShowSource("C:\temp\mymovie.mp4", audio=false)
Audio = DirectShowSource("C:\temp\mymovie.mp4", video=false).Normalize()
AudioDub(Video, Audio)
ConvertToYV12()
Lanczos4Resize(720,480)
</SCRIPT>

[FulciLives]

Based on your GSpot image you have an MP4 that has H.264 video.

So the first thing you want to do is demux the video and audio. Here is a thread with details on that:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic346811.html

Personally I've never had to demux an MP4 file but I have demuxed MKV files with H.264 video and as in that link above I can confirm that DGAVCDec works wonders. In my case I used it to re-encode to MPEG-2 DVD spec using CCE SP but of course HCenc will work as well.

However that is only half of the battle because after you demux you have an audio file in "mp4a MPEG-1" format and I have no idea what the hell that is or how you convert it to DVD compliant AC-3 audio.

However for the video I would definitely demux and use DGAVCDec along with an AviSynth script. Like I said has worked for me in the past on demuxed H.264 video files.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

If you insist on losing resolution and adding black, I get this:

LanczosResize(656,448)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)



Since there's no cropping being done, I removed that part of the resize line. Try as I might, I can't reproduce your script in FitCD, although I'm sure you generated it somehow. Personally, I don't think adding black is such a good idea. But that's up to you. Of course, that "flashing" is interlacing. If there's a lot of it, that just means the guy that made it is an idiot that didn't know what he was doing. You can remove it with a conditional deinterlacer like:

TDeint(Full=False)

[Maikeru-sama]

If you insist on losing resolution and adding black, I get this:

LanczosResize(656,448)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)



Because there's no cropping done, I removed that part of the Resize line. Personally, I don't think adding black is such a good idea. But that's up to you. Of cource, that "flashing" is interlacing. If there's a lot of it, that just means the guy that made it is an idiot that didn't know what he was doing. You can remove it with a conditional deinterlacer like:

TDeint(Full=False)

Manono, let me ask you something. I stopped using the "Blocks Overscan" scroll keys a long time ago. I just use the scroll keys to the right of the "448" in your picture until I get 640x440 as my TV has really bad Overscan, especially horizontally. Is there a difference between the two scroll bars?

I am going to go into FitCD and use the blocks overscan scroll keys like you did and then retry.

[Maikeru-sama]

Manono, here is what I was saying, just to make sure I wasn't confusing you.

[FulciLives]

I forgot to mention that there is a program I've been using called XviD4PSP 5.0 and this is a program designed to encode to MP4 format but you can also input an MP4 and put the program in "audio only mode" and then convert from the input audio to an output of your choice. Probably would be an easy way to convert to AC-3 format if you ask me.

You can also use XviD4PSP to demux the video and/or audio. Very handy program that I've been using the past couple of weeks since I've discovered it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
It can even take an MP4 and convert the video and audio to MPEG-2 with AC-3 but how well it does the video I do not know. I'd rather do what I said above about the video.

[manono]

Sorry, you caught me still editing while you were answering. We would come out with the same results if we both used Mod16 resizing. You changed that slider to Mod8 (Block Optimized), and as a result we get different figures. If you switch the slider to 16 (Macroblock Optimized), and then start using it, you'll see that doing it your way and doing it by Blocks Overscan will give the same results. It turns out the 2 results aren't so far off from each other after all, and I apologize for thinking they were.

[Maikeru-sama]

Sorry, you caught me still editing while you were answering. We would come out with the same results if we both used Mod16 resizing. You changed that slider to Mod8 (Block Optimized), and as a result we get different figures. If you switch the slider to 16 (Macroblock Optimized), and then start using it, you'll see that doing it your way and doing it by Blocks Overscan will give the same results. It turns out the 2 results aren't so far off from each other after all, and I apologize for thinking they were.

No problem, I think I was not very clear to begin with.

Also, I placed "TDeint(Full=False)" in my avisynth script and both CCE and HCenc complain. HCenc says that avisynth is throwing an error stating that there is no such function.

I am positive I have the highest version of Avisynth, which is 2.5.7 correct? I am going to go re-dowload it just to make sure.

[Maikeru-sama]

I forgot to mention that there is a program I've been using called XviD4PSP 5.0 and this is a program designed to encode to MP4 format but you can also input an MP4 and put the program in "audio only mode" and then convert from the input audio to an output of your choice. Probably would be an easy way to convert to AC-3 format if you ask me.

You can also use XviD4PSP to demux the video and/or audio. Very handy program that I've been using the past couple of weeks since I've discovered it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
It can even take an MP4 and convert the video and audio to MPEG-2 with AC-3 but how well it does the video I do not know. I'd rather do what I said above about the video.

Thanks FulciLives, I will look into that. I am assuming it does 1 file at a time?

[FulciLives]

I forgot to mention that there is a program I've been using called XviD4PSP 5.0 and this is a program designed to encode to MP4 format but you can also input an MP4 and put the program in "audio only mode" and then convert from the input audio to an output of your choice. Probably would be an easy way to convert to AC-3 format if you ask me.

You can also use XviD4PSP to demux the video and/or audio. Very handy program that I've been using the past couple of weeks since I've discovered it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
It can even take an MP4 and convert the video and audio to MPEG-2 with AC-3 but how well it does the video I do not know. I'd rather do what I said above about the video.

Thanks FulciLives, I will look into that. I am assuming it does 1 file at a time?

Yes. One at a time.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlanHK]

Also, I placed "TDeint(Full=False)" in my avisynth script and both CCE and HCenc complain. HCenc says that avisynth is throwing an error stating that there is no such function.

I am positive I have the highest version of Avisynth, which is 2.5.7 correct? I am going to go re-dowload it just to make sure.

It's a plugin, not a built-in function.

Just Google for it and you find it : http://bengal.missouri.edu/~kes25c/

In the zip you find a dll and and html file (documentation). You copy these into the "plugins" subfolder of your Avisynth program folder. Then you should be able to use the function.

There are LOTS of such functions: see, e.g., http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_plugins,
http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/ (this latter page actually includes TDeint, I see)

[45tripp]

overscan...
ok,
seems like a lot of black to me.

I tried this script to see if I could use lossless and it still crashed:

<SCRIPT>
Video = DirectShowSource("C:\temp\mymovie.mp4", audio=false)
Audio = DirectShowSource("C:\temp\mymovie.mp4", video=false).Normalize()
AudioDub(Video, Audio)
ConvertToYV12()
Lanczos4Resize(720,480)
</SCRIPT>

try ffmpegsource()

also you might want to test crash scenarios and report something reproducible
to the HC development thread. if you can't pin the problem to something external that is.

the latest version of avisynth is 2.58 rc1.

for 'flashy' i wanted video not pics.
i pause at hcenc output=flashy while quenc not.

anyway,
i quickly tried a h246,aac hd clip, with directshowsource(), avisynth 2.58, hc 0.23, lossless intermediary.
worked perfectly.
used the backcountry bombshell clip adobe used as demo on flash 9 launch.


tripp

[Maikeru-sama]

@45Tripp, here is an update:

Scenario1 - I tried using "TDeint" as manono stated and both CCE and HCenc crash at first attempt to encode.

Scenario2 - I tried WinFF using the NTSC Good and High Quality presents and it eventually crashes FFMPeg. It does render an MPG file but when you view it, it is just a black screen with avisynth errors.

Scenario3 - Tried using Avanti and that eventually crashes FFMpeg as well. This was not the Job list but just one file. Here is a screen shot that has the settings I used:

link

Scenario4 - I downloaded Super, even though my experiences in the past were not very good. I figured it is a new verison than what I last used and of course, I loaded my avs file and it bombed right when I hit the encode button.

Sorry I don't have any of the exact errors for all of these scenarios. I have already deleted the m2v file that HCenc encoded, but once I get some time, I will re-do it and upload a small portion of it on Rapishare or something.

I have decided to just give in for the moment and right now I am back to square one and just using CCE. I have about 15 files with the same exact settings as the file I posted. CCE crashes quite a bit while trying to encode them, but normally, after re-loading it, it will finish, which is very annoying. I may try Fulci's way but right now I have been working on this problem for so long, I don't feel like trying another software app.

If push comes to shove, I may just use Quenc, but no matter what settings I use, it still renders a 800 MB file, when all the other encoders based on the same settings are around 500 MBs.

I would really like find out why I can't use a "lossless" file in HCenc. I tried it on another file which is an AVI and it crashed as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anti-Virus software. I am thinking maybe is I can get rid of the source mismatches, than the lines in the rendered file will go away.

Anyway, thanks for all the help.

[Maikeru-sama]

Also, just wanted to note that I use CCCP which more information can be found in the thread below:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic351683.html

I have been using it for about 2 years without any problems but just wanted to mention it as I recently found out that quite a few people on this board are not familiar with it and some are leery of it.

[45tripp]

I'm familiar with CCCP.
nothing wrong with it.

scenario1, 2, 3, and 4
= avisynth script error.
load your scripts in vdub to check them before encoding.

nothing wrong with the Avanti settings.
except for the 4/3 aspect i don't understand, if we're talking about the same 1272x720 source..

I would really like find out why I can't use a "lossless" file in HCenc. I tried it on another file which is an AVI and it crashed as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anti-Virus software. I am thinking maybe is I can get rid of the source mismatches, than the lines in the rendered file will go away.

maybe,
assuming it's at fault.

one could also assume, that we're just talking about pulldown. pulldown with hc, not with quenc
that you played it with a player respecting rff flags.
that you screen captured the image instead of using frame grab, so the image is completely shot.
that the flashy pattern is 3 regular frames, 2 flashy ones.

I have decided to just give in for the moment and right now I am back to square one and just using CCE. I have about 15 files with the same exact settings as the file I posted. CCE crashes quite a bit while trying to encode them, but normally, after re-loading it, it will finish, which is very annoying. I may try Fulci's way but right now I have been working on this problem for so long, I don't feel like trying another software app.

well, no.
you'd want to be sure of system stability / codec stability before going further down the road.
still, HC could be a valid problem needing some trialing and bug reporting.
also, there are other versions of HC to try.


gl with it.
i can probably try source samples when provided,
and look at 'shot' results, to help you out when you try again.


tripp

[Maikeru-sama]

@45Tripp, I just downloaded the FFMpegSource DLL and unzipped it to the Avisynth Plugin folder.

However, when I try to open it in VDM, it says that is cannot load the plugin. When I unzipped it to the Plugin directory, it made a sub folder called "mpg", so I tried putting all the files in there into the Plugin root but that didn't work either.

Let me ask you an extremely basic question because something you said is confusing me. You said you were confused about the "16:9" aspect ratio. I don't have a HD television, so I always thought I needed to choose 4:3. You are correct, my source is 16:9, but as I stated, I thought that was for HD TVs. Please advise?

How would I check for system/codec stability and do you want the MP4 file or the M2V file renderd by HC or both?

Also, for all the scenarios, I used the same exact script that I posted here and I did check them in VDM and they worked fine.

[manono]

As AlanHK said, TDeint isn't an included AviSynth filter, but a 3rd party filter. If you followed his instructions and placed the TDeint.dll in your AviSynth plugins folder and it still doesn't work, then load the plugin in your script like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\TDeint.dll")
DirectShowSource("C:\myvideo.mp4", audio=false)
LanczosResize(640,440,4,0,1272,720)
AddBorders(40,16,40,24)
TDeint(Full=False)
ConvertToYV12()

Adjust for your path. I realize you said earlier that converting to YV12 seemed to make the script work, but if using CCE it's just going to convert it back to YUY2 before going to work on it, slightly slowing the encoding and producing slightly inferior results. If for HCEnc, unless the video isn't already YV12, you don't need that line at all. You can find the colorspace by adding Info() to the script. As 45tripp mentioned, open your scripts in VDub(Mod) to get error messages when you've done something like used TDeint without having the .dll someplace where AviSynth can see it.

All these crashes of yours say to me that there's a hardware problem, perhaps overheating, and not a software problem.

Did you ever upload a short section of the source? Just a few seconds with movement would help us. That GSpot screen shows it to be 23.976fps already, but if there's a lot of that interlacing then it probably plays jerky as well. And it has a pretty low bitrate for such a high resolution. Just guessing, either this thing compresses very well, or it looks like garbage. Since it's interlaced 23.976fps, more-or-less proving the original encoder didn't know what he was doing, I'd go with the latter.

Let me ask you an extremely basic question because something you said is confusing me. You said you were confused about the "16:9" aspect ratio. I don't have a HD television, so I always thought I needed to choose 4:3. You are correct, my source is 16:9, but as I stated, I thought that was for HD TVs. Please advise?

I'm not 45tripp, but you have a regular TV set and still have to use all that black around the video? Even the top and bottom, as you said? Doesn't your player add black to keep the AR? You shouldn't need anything on the top and bottom since your source is widescreen. And no, you don't need to choose 4:3. Those FitCD scripts we were fooling around with are all for 16:9 encoding anyway. That's what the "Anamorphic" checkbox is for. Don't you have 16:9 DVDs? If you have any widescreen movies on DVD, then most, if not all, are 16:9. The player will add black above and below when outputting to a 4:3 TV set. With a 1280x720 source, I'd encode for 16:9.

[Maikeru-sama]

@manono, yes, that is exactly what I did to load the TDeint plugin. If I just comment out the "TDeint(Full=False)", it will load just fine, so I know it is loading. It is only when that line is not commented out that it crashes.

How do I cutout a small portion of an MP4 file? I tried to open it in MPEGStream Clip but it won't open.

The CPU in question is a Dell Dual-Core I bought about 2 months ago, so it really scares me to think it could be hardware, even though I have not had these issues before.

Edit:manono, I am trying your suggestions now. I changed the colorspace to YUY2 and I an using 16/9 aspect ratio. The files are loading in CCE now but I think it is because due to this ordeal, I re-installed CCCP just to make sure some other software was not overriding it, so maybe that is why it loads now.

[manono]

From the TDeint manual:

full:

If full is set to true, then all frames are processed as usual. If full=false, all frames are first checked to see if they are combed. If a frame isn't combed, then it is returned as is. If a frame is combed, then it is processed as usual. The parameters that effect combed frame detection are cthresh, chroma, blockx, blocky, and MI. full=false allows TDeint to be an ivtc post-processor without the need for hints.

true - normal processing
false - check all input frames for combing first
default - true (bool)

What error message do you get when opening the script in VDub(Mod)

I don't know how to cut an MP4 file. I've never seen one in my life. Someone else will have to help.

[Maikeru-sama]

From the TDeint manual:

full:

If full is set to true, then all frames are processed as usual. If full=false, all frames are first checked to see if they are combed. If a frame isn't combed, then it is returned as is. If a frame is combed, then it is processed as usual. The parameters that effect combed frame detection are cthresh, chroma, blockx, blocky, and MI. full=false allows TDeint to be an ivtc post-processor without the need for hints.

true - normal processing
false - check all input frames for combing first
default - true (bool)

What error message do you get when opening the script in VDub(Mod)

I don't know how to cut an MP4 file. I've never seen one in my life. Someone else will have to help.

Below is the script I sent to VDM and it loaded fine. I am in the middle of using CCE, so I can't try to run HCenc. Also, I made an edit to my previous post.

<SCRIPT>
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TDeint\TDeint.dll")
DirectShowSource("C:\temp\mymovie.mp4", audio=false)
LanczosResize(640,440)
AddBorders(40,16,40,24)
ConvertToYV12()
Tdeint(Full=False)
</SCRIPT>

Also, I may just upload the entire file, it is only 170 MBs, which I don't think is that big.

[Maikeru-sama]

I was able to finally load the avs script with Deinterlacing into HCenc, but got the same results.

Fortunately, everything has started to load after I re-installed CCCP. I just wonder if there is still some sort of conflic going on with some software. I know I had to totally remove AVI2ISO because some of the software it installed was causing some problems.

I am hoping that these problems are isolated to these particular files or a re-format may be in order.

Anyway, I am calling it quits tonight, but will look at some other things tommorrow.

Edit: Here is the entire MP4 file for anyone interested in downloading it:
link

Here is picture of the error I get when I try to use "lossless" in HCenc

[manono]

You'll want to add the TDeint(Full=False) before the resize. The resize will screw up the field structure and make it impossible to deinterlace.

I highly suggest you follow FulciLives' suggestions earlier about how to demux and use DGAVCDec to open it in your encoder. I've never seen an MP4 before now and the link he posted gave clear instructions how to do it so it will be recognized by the encoder. I use DirectShowSource as a last resort and in this case there's no need for it at all. After extracting the video as h.264, I used this script to encode in CCE:

LoadPlugin("D:\AviSynth Stuff\DGAVC\DGAVCDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\AviSynth Stuff\Dlls\TDeint.dll")
AVCSource("E:\Test\Test.dga")
TDeint(Full=False)
LanczosResize(704,480)#or however you want to resize/addborders
AddBorders(8,0,8,0)

I got your episode and I couldn't find any interlacing in a quick glance, so there must be very little of it, and it looks like a pretty nice source after all. Or do you see a lot of interlacing and managed to hard telecine it in the encoder?

[FulciLives]

Well I downloaded the sample.

I opened it up in XviD4PSP 5.0 and demuxed the video and audio. That gave me a video only file with the name mymovie.h264 and an audio only file with the name mymovie.mp3

The MP3 is easy enough to convert to AC-3 for DVD. There are of course many ways of doing that. In my case I opened it up with Goldwave and normalized to -3.0db and saved as a 16-bit 48k Stereo PCM WAV audio file. I then converted it to a 2.0 256kbps AC-3 audio file with Soft Encode which is my preferred AC-3 encoder.

For the video I ran it through DGAVCDec and created the DGA file which I called sample.dga and the only setting I changed was to make sure that it was set to FORCE FILM and that it was set to TV SCALE although I don't think that really matters (knock on wood).

I then did this with FitCD:



Using the resize values from FitCD I created the following AviSynth script:

LoadPlugin("C:\VIDEO\dgavcdec100a23\DGAVCDecode.dll")
AVCSource("C:\ZZZ\sample.dga")
LanczosResize(656,448,0,0,1280,720)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)

I named this file sample.avs

I then opened the file into HCenc 0.23 which is the first time I've used that version although I've used 0.22 many times with no real issues. I only changed the first 3 tabs in HCenc so that it looked like this:









That last image is just to show that it started to encode without any errors. Right now as I am typing this it is at 65% done on the 1st pass but I see no reason why it would "error out".

When it is done I'll be happy to post it but the file size will not be small. Looks like it will be around 881MB adding up the video and audio. What can I say? ... I am a quality nut

Still I think you should be able to get 5 episodes per a single layer DVD Video disc this way although it will be a "tight" fit. Might want to try and lower the bitrate just a hint. 881MB x 5 = 4404MB so that doesn't leave much room for the DVD authoring step. Maybe try 4900kbps for the video or even 4800kbps etc. to make sure that 5 episodes fit with enough room for DVD authoring overheard.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
There does not appear to be any interlacing in the original file.

Also I guess I should mention that this was all done under WinXP Pro SP3

[FulciLives]

Well it turned out fine on my end and it looks/sounds great!

Here are two frames from the final MPEG-2 DVD spec file created by HCenc:

FRAME 01



FRAME 02



This is how they are encoded. I encoded in 16x9 WS but it will play back properly on a 16x9 WS TV as well as a 4:3 TV depending on how you set up the output on your DVD player. This is how most widescreen DVD Videos are created.

For a standard 4:3 TV you should see something that looks like the following:

FRAME 01



FRAME 02



For a 16x9 WS TV you should see something that looks like the following:

FRAME 01



FRAME 02



As for the final output ... I created a simple no menu DVD Video using MUXMAN and then created an ISO file with ImgBurn. You can download the ISO file and play it back "as is" using VLC media player or you can burn it to a DVD disc and watch it on your TV to see if there is enough overscan or not. Please note that the final size is under 1.0GB and I have heard that some DVD players will not play back a DVD Video that is under 1.0GB but I've done it on my players before (for testing purposes) and never ran into any issues (knock on wood it will be the same for you).

I've created a decentralized DHT bit torrent that I am hoping will work 8)
The file name is sample.torrent and here is the link to download it: CLICK HERE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
You may need to "right click" on the 16x9 WS images and select "view image" so that it opens up in a new browser window ... you may need to do this to see it in "full size".

Also the bit torrent I made requires that you use a bit torrent client that supports DHT bit torrents. I'm using KTorrent which is for Linux. For windows I suggest uTorrent or Azureus (Azureus also works on the APPLE MAC platform).

[Maikeru-sama]

Fulci, thanks for all the hard work, I will definately look into this.

I learned a whole lot in one thread.

CCE is almost done converting all the files (encoded two files overnight and no crashes) but I think I will go back and do them your way if I get time as there are 17 files just like the sample .

Also, Fulci, did you try to run the sample mp4 through HCenc via Avisynth? I am curious if you got any errors as I am still worried that it could be something wrong with my system which is brand new.

[Maikeru-sama]

I also wanted to add one other note about CCE.

It seems when I add just one avs file at a time, it seems to run all the way through without crashing. However, if I load about 2-3 avs files at a time, it seems to crash alot more. Sometimes it will make it through the first avs, but will almost always crash at some point during the second one.

This is extremely odd.

[hank315]

Just did a quick test using HC023 and Avisynth 2.5.7

avs script:

directshowsource("F:\HC_projects\Test_HC\mymovie\mymovie.mp4",audio=false)
LanczosResize(656,448,0,0,1280,720) 
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)

HC.ini:

*INFILE           f:\hc_projects\test_hc\mymovie\mm.avs
*OUTFILE          F:\HC_projects\Test_HC\mymovie\out1.m2v
*BITRATE          4000
*MAXBITRATE       9000
*FRAMES           0 33678
*PROFILE          best
*AUTOGOP          14
*AQ               1
*PROGRESSIVE
*AVSRELOAD
*PULLDOWN
*MATRIX           mpeg

No problems here...

[Maikeru-sama]

@Hank, I have copied your same exact settings (the only difference is that "DC_PREC 10" and GOP is 12 is in my INI file).

I am going to encode and when I get back from working out, I will tell you what the results were.

If it doesn't work, I think I may reformat my system next weekend, but the only problem is I don't know what is causing the problem.

Can you tell me how many ffdshow video decoder and haali media splitter icons were in your systems tray? While HCenc is encode, there are 2 of each for me.

Also, not that it matters, but do you know why my HCenc looks different from yours?

[FulciLives]

Well I decided to try yet again for you.

This time around I used the following AviSynth script:

DirectShowSource("C:\ZZZ\mymovie.mp4", fps=23.976, convertfps=true, audio=false)
LanczosResize(656,448,0,0,1280,720)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)

I called this sample2.avs

I loaded this in HCenc 0.23 as before with all the same settings except this time I used 4500kbps instead of 5000kbps for the video (average) bitrate.





I'll let you know how it turns out when it is done but it appears to be encoding A-OK (knock on wood).

Oh and as to the reason why all of our HCenc windows look different ... I'm using the standard WinXP theme whereas you appear to be using the "classic" WinXP theme and I'm assuming that hank315 is also using WinXP but with some other theme (or he just changed the colors etc.)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Notice that in my first encoding ... when I used DGAVCDec ... that I got a total frame count of 33679 whereas this second method ... using DirectShowSource ... shows a total frame count of 33682. Don't know why that is however I don't think it is anything to worry about.

Oh and one more thing ... you said, "Can you tell me how many ffdshow video decoder and haali media splitter icons were in your systems tray? While HCenc is encode, there are 2 of each for me."

Well I don't remember now what was showing when I did it with DGAVCDec but doing it right now with the DirectShowSource method I also have two icons each of Haali and ffdshow in my system tray.

[Maikeru-sama]

Fulci, thanks for all of your help. I apologize for having you all literally work on this issue alot this weekend with me .

I am starting to think there is a problem with codecs or something as it appears it works for you and Hank but not for me. I did exactly what hank did and I still got lines in the video. The weird thing is that Quenc does them perfectly and CCE and HCenc don't but most feel Quenc is inferior to them. Maybe Quenc uses some codecs that the other two don't now sure. I just put the sample on DVD using Quenc and it is perfect.

This weekend I am probably going to try to do some of the techniques listed in the thread below:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic346358.html

I am amazed and somewhat embarrassed that this thread is 60 posts long but I learned alot .