[Help] Problems creating VCDs.

[scott274]

Hey friends,

I had a bunch of movies on my hard drives in .DAT and .avi format and wanted to make VCDs out of them as my 80 GB disk space was getting pretty low. But then later i ran into another problem (actually two problems). Also i use simple nonrewritable, nonerasable CDs usually used for creating VCD.

Initially I just used Nero 6 for creating VCDs (encoding & burning). The first two VCDs that i created were OK. But there was one minor problem in them (start of the first problem). When i played these VCDs on my VCD player, they didn't play absolutely smoothly. The movie would very slightly stop and play, like hangs slightly after intervals. The original video (.avi or .dat) on my hard drive played smoothly without any problems. Hope you got the idea of my problem from the above description.

Then came the second problem. After the first couple VCDs i created, whenever i used to make VCDs on Nero 6 and play on my VCD player, the audio would gradually go out of sync with the video on TV. Here is what i tried so far on this problem..
Having gone through some related google sites and forum threads, tried using different converters/encoding softwares to convert the " .avi / .DAT " files to mpeg-1 or VCD compliant format. Winavi, Total video converter, TMPGenc were what i have used till now and then burning the encoded file in Nero 6 in VCD creation mode. The encoded files worked fine on my PC but the audio out of sync problem still remained when i played the VCD on the VCD player. Even tried different burning programs like the built in CD burner in Winavi and another one i don't remember now. But all this didn't work and consequently had to throw away the VCDs.. Sigh!

The latest trick i have tried was encoding a 778 mb and 780 mb .DAT movie files in TMPGenc to standard VCD format (keeping default options as they are as i always do) and then making an image of each with VCDgear. Then i burned the VCD image files (.bin i think) with Nero 6 on two empty CDs. The encoded files had once again worked fine on my PC whether played from hard disk or PC CD drive. But when played in VCD player, the video stopped and played worse than ever (like problem 1 above) and also there was a lot of distortion in the video while playing. I couldn't play the entire movie to see if there was any audio sync problem too or not (most probably not but can't be sure).

Bottomline Questions:
What could be the cause of problem 1 (ie. video slightly (or worst) stopping & playing in VCD player). and how can i finally get rid of it.
Any comments or tips on problem 2 (ie. audio out of sync on VCD player)
Can these problems be because of some frightfull hardware problems. If so any ideas on how possibly to track down & determine this. VCDs made by CD to CD copy function of Nero 6 (ie. copy disks function) works fine on my VCD player.

[Baldrick]

I would try,
vcdgear the dat to a standard mpg
author and burn the mpg with vcdeasy

It could also be a cdr/w media issue that causing problems so try different cdr media.

[jman98]

Unfortunately, you may have several problems here and there may not be a solution for you that will ever work 100% of the time.

Nero doesn't make VCDs that are 100% compliant with the standards. It comes close, but still there are differences. I usually recommend that people use VCDEasy as it does make VCDs that comply with the standards for such discs.

If using VCDEasy does not fix your problem, it could be a media issue. Try using CD-RW discs and see if that helps. Sometimes CD-RW discs work better for VCD playback in VCD players.

Is your VCD player a portable player? The reason I am asking is that portable VCD players are infamous for NOT playing VCDs that you make yourself. It has nothing to do with India - it's how ALL portable VCD players are. Years ago, I was on another forum and we had a big discussion about it. Nobody has any idea why this happens nor any idea how to fix it. There was a lot of speculation as to what might be causing this, but none of the things suggested was the reason. I've seen this before from portables - they'll play copied VCDs with no problems, but anything you make yourself, no matter what you use to make it, won't play correctly if at all. Even if your player is not portable, you may have this problem and VCDEasy can't fix it.

I'm sorry that I don't remember the name of it, but there is some old program that you can sometimes find on BitTorrent that was used to make commercial VCDs. If you can find that, there is a slim chance that it might be able to make a VCD that your player will play. Our member Cornucopia knows more about VCDs than anybody here. If he doesn't post to this thread perhaps you can send him a private message and ask him if he knows the name of this old software program that was used by commercial companies to make VCDs. There is something that is in the way that VCDs were made commercially in terms of the layout that is just barely different from how even VCDEasy produces them and it seems to me that something in VCD only players looks for whatever those differences are. By the way, DVD players that can play VCD don't have these problems with VCDs you make yourself and your Nero created discs would probably work OK in such a DVD player.

[Cornucopia]

Let's try troubleshooting...

The areas where there could be problems are these:
1. Bad source files
2. Converting/Encoding (Bad software/methods/settings) to VCD-Compliant MPEG1
3. Authoring (again, bad software/methods/settings) to compliant VCD image
4. Burning (") to compliant VCD disc format
5. Media (material incompatible with that player)
6. Pressed vs. Burn compatibility

(BTW, that app that jman98 was referring to was probably Philips' VCDToolkit-but that may or may not be the solution)

Test other burned media (both recordable AND rewriteable) on your player (incl. Audio CDs) to see if the player accepts burned media, and which type it prefers. (That takes care of 5 + 6)

Use Gspot, MediaInfo, etc to check the specs of the source files. I agree with Baldrick re:VCDGear repackaging for the .DAT files (then you may not need to encode if they're already VCD-compliant). You may want to post the specs for these files. Assuming the source files are ok, that takes care of #1.

Convert/Encode the files that need it using the default/standard VCD template in TMPGEnc (which is pretty darn good for VCD-compliant encoding--but not perfect). Test the outputs on your PC. All good so far? Let's assume that takes care of #2. (Although, I'm guessing you might have some PAL<-->NTSC issues here).

Use VCDEasy to author AND burn (onto rewriteable media if the player supports it). If your burner isn't supported by VCDEasy, save the BIN/CUE image and burn with IMGBurn. DON'T USE NERO for either of these things.

That OUGHT to clear things up. Take it stepwise so you can rule out all the options that may be confusing the issue.
Post your progress... HTH,

Scott

[scott274]

My VCD player is a three in one Thomson Player (Casette player, VCD player and radio) and is not portable like those light, small & single VCD players. And it can play VCD format CDs only and not DVDs etc. Not even SVCDs i think. Also i have used Eurovision CD-R 80M/700MB/52X CDs till now to make VCDs. I do also have two Sony CD-RW 650MB/4X-10X CDs. Will just have to physically erase them in Nero 6 first.

And thanks Jman for that tip concerning the program to make commercial VCDs. It does sounds good. I have many commercial movies VCDs with me and they do work without any problems. Always wondered what is really the difference between the two. If nothing else works, I will try this program out in the end.

Now following Baldrick & Cornucopia tips and keeping the .avi files aside for sometime, I will try to create VCDs out of the two .DAT files on my hard disk (780mb & 778mb each).

1) Bad source files.

AVSEQ01.DAT (780 mb) With MediaInfo and Gspot :-
General:
Complete name : F:\Movies\... \AVSEQ01.DAT
Format : CDXA/MPEG-PS
File size : 780 MiB
Duration : 1h 17mn
Overal bit rate : 1412 Kbps
Video:
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 1
Format settings, Matrix : Standard
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1152 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 1152 Kbps
Width : 352 pixels
Height : 288 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.454
Audio:
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 1h 17mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 224 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Video delay : -80ms

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/GspotAVSEQ01.jpg

AVSEQ02.DAT (778 mb) With MediaInfo and Gspot :-
General:
Complete name : F:\Movies\... \AVSEQ02.DAT
Format : CDXA/MPEG-PS
File size : 779 MiB
Duration : 1h 17mn
Overal bit rate : 1412 Kbps
Video:
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 1
Format settings, Matrix : Standard
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1152 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 1152 Kbps
Width : 352 pixels
Height : 288 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.454
Audio:
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 1h 17mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 224 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Video delay : -80ms

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/GspotAVSEQ02.jpg

2) For .Dat files you said encoding/converting was not required. So I repacked the files using "DAT -> mpeg" option in VCDgear v3.55 under the vcdgear tab. "Fix MPEG Errors" was left unchecked. The output video quality was slightly better than when i had encoded the dat files in TMPGenc last time. The Mpeg files are now ready for VCD burning.
Reports of the two repacked mpeg files AVSEQ01.mpg & AVSEQ02.mpg with GSpot :
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/GspotMpegAVSEQ01.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/GspotMpegAVSEQ02.jpg

3) Also due to Baldrick suggestion, this time i will use a different brand of CD-R CDs. They come in the range of 10 to 15 bucks here. I usually used the cheaper CDs till now but will buy better quality 15 bucks CDs this time ( although they all look the same really ).

4) Now will feed these Mpeg files from VCDgear to VCDEasy (not changing any default options within). No using Nero 6 at all this time as suggested.
Right clicked and selected "Add Files" option in VCDEasy. In that first selected the AVSEQ01.mpg but got an error:
"AVSEQ01.mpg" analyse failed:
Error in mpeg1 steam
OK

Again right clicked and selected "Add Files" option. In that selected the AVSEQ02.mpg but got another error this time:
This MPEG file have bad packets:
Bad packet at packet #296637 (steam byte offset 689384388) -- remaining 117303900 bytes of steam will be ignored
Do you want to add this file anyway ?
Yes : No

This is where I am halted as of now

Ps: Hope I didn't overlook any comments/suggestions here and forget to respond. If so please remind me.

[DereX888]

perhaps try burning your discs at *slower* speed than maximum?

also, i remember having a portable 'discman-vcdplayer' in the past that never could play burnt VCDs right (choppy playback), only original silver-pressed VCDs were good. The problem was its built-in crappy cd reader...

[scott274]

Ok Derex, so you think the two problems may be due to burning speeds and not really occuring due to bad encoding, repacking, bad source files etc. or due to both.

Till now I have used only Nero 6 for creating VCDs, burning data/images. In that, Nero gives the option to change "Writing speed" just before the actual burn process starts. Uptill now i have always selected "Maximum" option in the ones displayed. But i also observed that sometimes the "Maximum" option was not available. In which case i would just choose the highest speed displayed by Nero. Usually 40X (6000 KB/s) would be the highest but sometimes much lesser speeds were displayed in the speed list.

I have checked my purchase receipt for the CD drive I use and it says I have a 52X Sony writer black.

Now i have just got a program called IMGBurn which i will probably be using from now on. In its "Write speed" list there are options like AUTO, MAX, 1X, 2X, 2.4X, 3X etc.

Questions:
What writing speed do you think i should use.
Does choosing much lower writing speeds than AUTO or MAX cause any problems other that longer burning time used by the software.

What is really the difference between our PC created VCDs with all the encoding & burning applications and those commercial VCDs (original silver-pressed VCDs).
What is it that they do and we don't. Is it not possible here to create VCDs exactly like those commercial VCDs which play without a problem probably on so many different PCs and VCD players. Anyone has any ideas or info on this.

[jman98]

Try lower burning speeds like 4x, but I don't think your problems are really speed related. I am convinced that there is something that is just different on commercially pressed discs and it comes from what they use to create them.
Nobody seems to know what that "something" is. VCD only players just suck for compatibility with burned media.

Try to find the Philips VCD Toolkit (look on Bit Torrent) and see if VCDs you make with it play OK for you.

[scott274]

Are you guys talking about this software...

Philips VideoCD Toolkit
https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Philips_VideoCD_Toolkit

To think i was just stretching myself and gearing up for a long search (including Bit Torrents and everything) feeling it would be very difficult to find

But there seems to be something wrong. Its last version came out in 2003. Are you sure it can still give those other latest VCD softwares a run for their money or even better. Although when i searched "Philips VCD Toolkit" in google and looked up at the other search links on page 1 (of google), i saw many good comment on this Philips VCD Toolkit and how good it is in making VCDs. But those comments might have been as old as the software itself. Also i heard that a beginner would have difficulty with it creating VCDs due to its old interface.

[Cornucopia]

VCD Toolkit does work quite well (in terms of compliant output), it's just a pain to work with because it's so old (Win 3.1 interface) and you'll need to do a LOT of homework and cross-checking to make sure all your ducks are in a row for it to output without errors stopping the app.
The differences are mainly in the sector linking (like "aliases"), byte-aligned packing, order of sector layout, a few other things. But, honestly, VCDEasy is nearly as good (and infinitely easier to work with).

Do those unwrapped (from VCDGear) MPGs play correctly? Try alternate files where [Fix MPEG Errors] is checked.

Try demultiplexing the MPEG1 system streams to elementary A + V streams, and then remux with TMPGEnc (using VCD standard, or if that doesn't work--VCD Non-standard). Then see how well VCDEasy accepts the resultant files. Make sure that you have previously set VCDEasy to PAL system, VCD 1.1 (for no menus/no PBC) or VCD 2.0 (for PBC/menus). It seems that it's at that step where you're beginning to have problems (and you don't want to go any further until you get that ironed out).

And, yes, you SHOULD be using better quality blanks.

RE: Pressed vs. Burned disc compatibility,
Pressed discs have better OPTICAL REFLECTIVITY, (hopefully) less chance of random bit errors (especially in the MPEG tracks), no problems with linking sectors, and POSSIBLY (but not necessarily) more compliant authoring .

Keep us informed...

Scott

[scott274]

Oh! so pressing and burning are two different processes of creating a VCD. And commercial VCDs are more stable and compatible with different VCD players because they are pressed and not burned to CDs like we do.

Ok, one more thing before I proceed. You know in GSpot there is some kind of a graph at the top right side which tells about some discontinuities. Now in the original DAT files there are lots of vertical red lines in the graph (screenshot in my second post from top). When i repack DAT to Mpeg with or without "Fix MPEG Errors" option ticked in VCDgear, the graph for AVSEQ01.mpg has a single red mark while AVSEQ02.mpg has two red marks (Screenshot above). Even after demultiplexing and multiplexing the Mpeg files in TMPGenc those red marks just remains there.
What are these discontinuities. Can't they be removed completely. Are my problems or errors caused due to these discontinuities or can such small discontinuities be ignored without us getting any wiser.

Now moving on, Yes the unwrapped Mpeg files work nicely on my PC. But weather I keep the "Fix MPEG Errors" option ticked or not in VCD gear, the unwrapped Mpeg files are rejected by VCDEasy during scanning & analysis with the same errors i had mentioned before. Actually i had even used the Mpeg Tools in the Tools section of VCDEasy to unpack DAT to Mpeg, but same result with similar errors.

Then came the turn of TMPGenc. I first demultiplexed the original unwrapped Mpeg files and then multiplexed the .m1v & mp2 (output in a different folder) with the multiplexer format "MPEG-1 System Stream (Video-CD)". These multiplexed files played correctly on my PC.
For AVSEQ01.mpg :
The Demultiplexing went without any problems or errors. But in Multiplexing, at the end of the process got an error.
Error Dialog Box :
Invalid MPEG audio stream.
OK

For AVSEQ02.mpg
The Demultiplexing as well as Multiplexing (again with multiplexer format "MPEG-1 System Stream (Video-CD)") went without any problems or errors.

Now back to VCDEasy.
All options were kept as default without any changes as follow:
VideoCD type : VCD 2.0 (other options were VCD 1.1 and SVCD 1.0)
PAL or NTSE : PAL selected.
CD Writer : "2,0,0: ON5906C, ONF615H, 1.01" (other options were "CD Image File Recorder" and "1,1,0: SONY, CD-RW CRX230ED, 4YS1")
Interactivity: Ticked
Simulate: Ticked
Burn: Not Ticked
SPTI selected. (other option was ASPI: NERO)

Added the multiplexed AVSEQ01.mpg in VCDEasy and no errors were reported during scanning & analysis and the file was accepted by VCDEasy.
Then added the multiplexed AVSEQ02.mpg in VCDEasy and again no errors were reported during scanning & analysis and the file was accepted too by VCDEasy.

But let us not forget that "Invalid MPEG audio stream" error during the multiplexion of AVSEQ01.mpg
Honestly i would like to do away with all the errors before authoring & burning the VCD compliant Mpeg file to CD. I have lost so many CDs so far trying to make VCDs playable on my VCD player that i don't want to lose any more.

[jman98]

I have lost so many CDs so far trying to make VCDs playable on my VCD player that i don't want to lose any more.

That is why I suggested:
1) Using CD-RW discs (you can reuse them if they don't work, so no loss of money)
2) That you use the Philips VideoCD Toolkit.

You may not want to hear this, but I am convinced that you are wasting your time in trying to make VCDEasy work.
I love VCDEasy. I bought a copy some years ago. I have worked with VCD only players (portables) and had EXACTLY the same problem as you. If copied a commercial VCD, it worked fine. If I created my own, no matter what I used (I did NOT have the Philips VideoCD Toolkit), it NEVER worked. I am convinced that the problem is in the firmware. There is something that firmware is looking for that it finds in commercial VCDs that it doesn't find in ones you make yourself. This is why I think you need to try the Philips program - it may work and it may be the only thing that works.

I don't like VCD only players - too many problems like this.

[Cornucopia]

Now that you have authored in VCDEasy with "acceptable" input streams, have you burned a CD-RW and tested it?

It does seem that you've got source files with small amounts (but just enough) of corruption, that when you play them in a PC (which is usually more forgiving), you don't see any problem (maybe it covers the errors up), but when you play them in more finicky VCD players, those corruptions are enough to stutter/lose sync.
Kinda like the analogy of a Macrovision-ed VHS tape that plays ok on a TV, but messes up if you try to dub it to another tape.

jman98, sorry but I don't share your fatalism about VCDEasy. One reason I recommend it all the time is that I have created literally scores, if not hundreds, of VCDs for myself and for paying clients, that have worked quite successfully. Not saying the problems was between keyboard and chair (I respect your opinions), but you know there could be lots of other variables.

Let us know further...

Scott

[vcd4ever]

Hi scott274,

I'm wondering if it's possible for you to download this Test VCD "Server Offline" that has been authored with Philips Videocd Toolkit and report back how it worked in your VCD Player.

vcd4ever.

[scott274]

Sorry for this late reply from me. Due to some problems had to format C drive and reinstall Norton Ghost 2003 partition image.

Also the two Sony CD-RW I had were 650 mb, 74 min CDs while required were 80 min CDs. So I had to buy another CD-RW (Moserbaer Pro 700 mb, 80 min). But further bad news is that my VCD player dosen't seems to support CD-RW VCDs. When i inserted the authored & burned CD-RW VCDs in my VCD player got a "CD Error" message in the player. Only the CD-R VCDs (commercial and those i had created earlier) worked fine in the player. I also checked my VCD player manual and found that only the following CDs are playable..
Compact Disc Digital Audio
Compact Disc Digital Audio (Recordable)
Compact Disc Digital Audio (Rewritable)
Compact Disc Digital Video (CD-Recordable)
So right now I can only use CD-R CDs to create VCDs for my player and if something goes wrong... it won't be reusable. So let us try to be more sure before the final burn to disc.

Now we left our story at demultiplexing and multiplexing the unwrapped Mpeg files in TMPGenc (with a small error for AVSEQ01.mpg) and the resultant file was finally accepted by VCDEasy.
Selecting the below options in VCDEasy, I created a VCD Image (cue-bin) form the multiplexed AVSEQ01.mpg :
VideoCD type : VCD 2.0
PAL or NTSE : PAL
CD Writer : "CD Image File Recorder"
There were no errors in the Image creation process. After which i mounted the VCD Image in Dameon tools and tried to play the "AVSEQ01. Dat" file in its "MPEGAV" subfolder. The video did not even play on my PC. Windows Media Player gave a class factory error, DIVX player said this is not a video track and even VLC Player couldn't play it. Even tried "VCD 1.1" option in VCD Easy but same results.
GSpot specs for original TMPGenc multiplexed, VCDEasy accepted Mpeg file used for Image creation:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/GSpotMultiplexedAVSEQ01original6-8-.jpg
GSpot specs for the DAT file in created VCDEasy Image (mounted in Dameon Tools):
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/final6-8-2008-25905AM.jpg

Hi vcd4ever mate I had got your "testvcd" file earlier. But since my player dosen't recognise CD-RW VCDs as stated before, couldn't try it on the my VCD Player. What i did but, was burn the testvcd image file on a CD-RW with IMGBurn at 4X speed (recommended earlier) and play it from there. The DAT file played correctly on my PC.
GSpot specs of the DAT file on your original testvcd.cue (quite good quality with absolutely no discontinuities):
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/original6-8-2008-34250AM.jpg
GSpot specs of the DAT file on the CD-RW VCD burned with IMGBurn :
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/abs724/Screencaps/CD-RW6-8-2008-34815AM.jpg

[scott274]

Well... anyone have any more ideas..

Cornucopia dosen't seems to be around or perhaps has no further ideas to resolve my problem. I can understand as the fact is bamboozling that the input multiplexed TMPGenc MPG files plays on my PC but the output VCDEasy DAT simply dosen't even play on my PC players when it should, after which i am slightly reluctant to burn that authored VCD Image on a CD-R. I really don't understand why VCDEasy is not working authoring playable VCD DAT files on my PC even. Still if you have anymore ideas i will be more than willing to try them.

Vcd4ever, I know i couldn't try your Test VCD on my VCDplayer, but what i can do is author my movie file which i want to play on my player exactly like you did in Philips VideoCD Toolkit. You will just have to direct me, exactly how you did it from start (Raw DAT file on my harddisk). I am willing to spend a CD-R this way and if it works correctly on my player, problem solved and if it dosen't then we can be almost sure that the problems were not due to bad authoring or using noncompliant Mpeg file provided i have done everything correctly.
Further you know i have made VCDs before on my PC as i stated earlier in my first post. Some of them work OK on my VCDplayer but most of the later created VCDs have audio sync problem or bad video playback. I can post the Gspot specs of all these VCDs (working as well as nonworking). So if there is any bitrate problem we can determine what highest bitrate is my player probably comfortable with from them.

I hope someone on board here can find a solution to my VCD creation problem. please help if possible friends..

[Midzuki]

My humble suggestion is... VCDImager Tools GUI

( http://download.videohelp.com/vitualis/vcdimager_tools_gui.html )

HTH.

[Cornucopia]

Midzuki--
VCDImager Tools GUI is just a frontend for VCDImager (plus a few other side tools)--VCDEasy is ALSO a frontend for the same toolset. Would make no difference. If VCDEasy can't output correctly, VCDImager Tools GUI wouldn't either (as it's the engine that is having trouble).

scott274--
Obviously, there is discontinuity in your source files. This is being smoothed-over or covered-up/ignored by your PC media player, but the discontinuity is wreaking havoc with tools further downstream.
My suggestion would be to decode the "fixed and CDXA-unwrapped" mpg files to a lossless intermediate format (Lagarith, HuffYUV, etc), checking for discontinuity in the output (both audio and video, and making sure durations match) and then do a clean encode with that file to MPEG1 (using TMPGEnc, etc).
But, do NOT go direct MPEG-to-MPEG.

Check for discontinuity after each step.
You MAY have to sacrifice a few more CDs to get this done. (Note: it seems you still didn't really make it clear what types of discs your player accepts--DO NOT ALWAYS RELY ON THEIR LITERATURE--if it accepts RW for Audio CDs, it ought to also for VCDs). Test, test, retest.

Have you tried just getting a cheap DVD player that works with VCDs?

Scott

[jman98]

scott274 - I am going to be VERY blunt with you because I want you to get help with this and you don't seem to really be paying attention to what I am trying to tell you.

NOBODY seems to know why VCD only players are so fussy about playing homemade VCDs. NOBODY. NOBODY! Do you understand that?

I told you that while VCDEasy is a great program, you are wasting your time trying to use it to make a VCD that will play in your player. All VCD only players are like this. They just don't play VCDs that people make themselves. Again, NOBODY knows why.

I suggested that you try the Philips VCD Toolkit which might produce a VCD that your player will play. It may not, but you didn't try it. If you enjoy beating your head against the wall, then continue to use VCDEasy. There is almost no chance at all that you will ever figure out what it takes to make it work with your player. I and many others have tried to make those damn VCD only players play homemade VCDs and we just gave up. I'm talking from experience when I tell you that are wasting your time. Either install and try the Philips program or you will continue to fail. And that may not fix your problem either but since you haven't tried it yet, we don't know. But I feel very sure that you will NEVER get VCDEasy to produce a VCD that will play in your player no matter how long you try.

[scott274]

I downloaded Lagarith Lossless video codec auto installer from the above link and installed it, but how do i decode to the lossless intermediate format. I mean what application to use etc.

Jman, it's not that I am not paying attention to your advice mate. The thing is I got that Philips VCD Toolkit the very first time you guys mentioned it to me. But I am new to these matters (which is why I am posting in the newbies section) and when I looked at it first, just didn't understand how to possible go about making a VCD with it. Its interface is so different. I googled for it's info and even asked Vcd4ever about it but he's probably not around these days. If you know how to work the VCD toolkit, then direct me. I would be very willing to work on it alongside.

[DereX888]

Just retire that VCD Player already, do you know that mere $10 will get you a DVD Player toiday?!
(and it will play all of your silverpressed and burnt VCDs - and more )
Heck, if you were a bit closer to my area I'd give you few of my older dvd players (that play VCD/SVCD) for free, since they only take space in the basement. Anyways I'm sure even in India they cannot be expensive nowadays?

[vcd4ever]

scott274,

I have a DVD player, but I also have a VCD player (Philips CD-i 450) that only play's VCD's. I wasted over 30 CD-R's before I was able to figure out how to author a VCD that played perfectly in the CD-i player.

The problem was that the CD-i player requires that the VCD is fully VCD2.0 compliant and this meant that I had to use a mpeg that was fully VCD2.0 compliant when authoring the VCD.

It doesn't matter if I'm authoring the VCD with Philips VideoCD Toolkit or Vcdeasy because the VCD will play perfectly in the CD-i player as long as I'm using a fully VCD2.0 compliant mpeg when authoring the VCD.

The biggest problem nowadays is to find a mpeg encoder that is capable of encoding a fully VCD2.0 compliant mpeg and this was also a big problem for Philips because almost nobody was able to author a VCD that played perfectly in the Philips CD-i 210 player. Philips however later solved this problem by relaxing the vcd compliance in the mpeg decoder card used by the CD-i 210 player.

I'm totally convinced that you can also author a VCD with Vcdeasy that also play's perfectly in your VCD player.

vcd4ever.

[jman98]

vcd4ever - That's very interesting. I can tell you that TMPGenc, which is use to create VCDs (when I create VCDs, which isn't often these days), can't create anything that any VCD only player will play. What do you use to encode? Do you have any tips on settings? TMPGenc also ignores bit rate settings, so if I set a constant bit rate at 1150 Kbps, it will definitely exceed it at some point. Is the solution here that the video bit rate must not ever exceed 1150?

The only suggest prior to this that I ever heard that I thought might solve the problem was that one guy was convinced that it had something to do with the matrix that was used in encoding, but that was proven to be wrong.

[aedipuss]

jman98 - it's weird your tmpgenc won't create mpeg-1 vcd my old v2.59 does it without any problem. load the vcd template, and the encodes always pass vdceasy inspection and play in standalones fine. can't say i use it much anymore though.

[jman98]

No, TMPGenc creates VCD format video (MPEG-1) fine. It's just that I've never been able to get anything encoded with it or captured with a capture card to create a VCD that will play on a VCD only player. Note that carefully - I'm NOT talking about DVD players but players that only play VCD.

I'm wondering if this is a bit rate issue and the VCD only players are just adamant that VCDs they play cannot have ANY part of the video that exceeds a video bit rate of 1150 Kbps. See, TMPGenc, no matter what you set the max bit rate to, will ALWAYS exceed it. ALWAYS. Without exception. To keep everything below 1150 that you encode with TMPGenc, you'd probably have to set the bit rate to 1000 or less - no joke. Capture cards are the same - whatever you set the max bit rate too, the card WILL exceed that value at some point.

I no longer have a VCD only player, but some years ago I bought one as a gift for someone and I could never get VCDs I made myself to play in it.
At the time, a lot of people were complaining about the fact that these players won't play homemade VCD, but nobody knew why.

[DereX888]

vcd4ever - That's very interesting. I can tell you that TMPGenc, which is use to create VCDs (when I create VCDs, which isn't often these days), can't create anything that any VCD only player will play. What do you use to encode? Do you have any tips on settings? TMPGenc also ignores bit rate settings, so if I set a constant bit rate at 1150 Kbps, it will definitely exceed it at some point. Is the solution here that the video bit rate must not ever exceed 1150?

The only suggest prior to this that I ever heard that I thought might solve the problem was that one guy was convinced that it had something to do with the matrix that was used in encoding, but that was proven to be wrong.

You are completely right about TMPGEnc and VCDs.
I don't know have they ever solved it, but until year 2000 when I quit using VCD format and moved to SVCDs, I never had any luck with Tsunami and its MPEG-1 encoding, only troubles and more troubles. AFAIR neither Adaptec VCD Creator nor Nero VCD nor NTI CD Maker - none of them could accept TMPGEnc's encoded - supposedly VCD-compliant - MPEG-1 files. They were only good for menus and other extras

Panasonic MPEG-1 Encoder was the only one I was confident and using all the time (with Philips VCD Toolkit, but I must add that such combo still never produced for me any VCDs playable on any of the few standalone VCD/CDi players I had back then; I used to think the problem was in their CD-ROM's lasers unable to read burnt discs, but I'm not sure today what really could have been their problem).

[AlanHK]

Obviously, there is discontinuity in your source files. This is being smoothed-over or covered-up/ignored by your PC media player, but the discontinuity is wreaking havoc with tools further downstream.

If so, try VCDGear.
In its basic conversions it has DAT -> MPEG, MPEG -> MPEG, etc; with the option "Fix MPEG errors".
That may clean up the files enough.

It can also author to a VCD image (Cue+Bin) which you can burn with Fireburner.

[vcd4ever]

scott274,

My guess is that you are still wondering if the dat file would have been playable on your computer when authored with Philips VideoCD Toolkit, so here "Server Offline" is a guide on how to author a very simple VCD with Philips VideoCD Toolkit.

vcd4ever.

[scott274]

Hey vcd4ever Thanks for the Philips VCD toolkit tutorial. You know I had a spare blank disc and decided to try your testvcd (the one you had posted earlier here) on it and play it on my VCD player. It worked.. no audio sync problems, no jerky bad video playback and the video quality was good too. So is this good news or bad news.

Well since i downloaded and installed the Lagarith Lossless video codec from its auto installer as suggested by Cornucopia and since have no further ideas what to do with it and consequently follow the rest of his suggestions, might as well try Philips VideoCD Toolkit with your tutorial till he comes back.

1) Started off with my original "AVSEQ01.DAT" movie file and used VCDgear, "DAT -> Mpeg" option for unwrapping the DAT file. "Fix Mpeg Errors" option was ticked.
2) Now the resultant "AVSEQ01.mpg" could not pass VCDEasy scan & analysis. So Demultiplexed it in TMPGenc and multiplexed the .m1v & mp2 files (again in TMPGenc) with multiplexer format "MPEG-1 System Stream (Video-CD)" selected (output in seperate folder).
3) The resultant multiplexed "AVSEQ01.mpg" passed VCDEasy scan & analysis. This is the Mpeg video file which I will use for Philips VideoCD toolkit unless you give some different suggestions till this step.

4) Opened Philips VideoCD toolkit and selected File -> New
Named the project "AVSEQ01.PRJ" in the opened dialog box and clicked OK.
5) Then selected Tools -> Assets
In the opened assets dialog box, clicked Add.
Browsed to the "AVSEQ01.mpg" folder, Selected "All Files" under file types and then selected "AVSEQ01.mpg" and clicked OK.
Video CD 2.0 Toolkit Error:
The file 'c:\Movies\... \AVSEQ01.mpg' is not a valid Video, Audio, or MPEG file.
Clicked OK to this error and here am I.. stuck. What to do now.

[Cornucopia]

...Well since i downloaded and installed the Lagarith Lossless video codec from its auto installer as suggested by Cornucopia and since have no further ideas what to do with it and consequently follow the rest of his suggestions, might as well try Philips VideoCD Toolkit with your tutorial till he comes back...

Use VLC, Virtualdub, TMPGEnc, or some other app which will open up your MPEG1 file(s) and at least play them correctly (whether in realtime or stepwise frame-by-frame) and export to AVI using the aforementioned Lagarith codec (now that you have it installed). I'd save audio in intermediate state also, just to keep A+V together and in sync (use uncompressed LPCM for this--either in the AVI or as separate WAV).

Yes, you will have to recompress, but it sure seems like you're gonna have to do this anyway. If VCD toolkit doesn't accept your media, you need to convert it to media it can accept. A safe encoder for this would probably be the Panasonic MPEG1 encoder (adding correct sequence headers with MPEGSequenceMaker after the fact of encoding but before authoring).

Good luck,

Scott