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  1. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    If it matters I'm using a Pioneer 520H DVR.

    Using R media takes about 6 minutes to burn.
    Using RW media takes about 30 minutes - about 5x more.

    I do use RW media since I prefer to migrate the content to my PC for better edits, authoring, menus, processing, etc. and then reuse the discs.

    I don't mind the extra time since it's not work that I myself actually do, and saves me a bunch of wasted discs.

    Is this method putting more wear and tear on the burner? Should I just use the R media instead and just chuck them out when my project is complete? I still have some burning left to do (about 100 new VHS family tapes to digitize), and since I do capture at the higher bitrates to preserve as much quality as possible, that would mean even more discs (and burns).

    What do you think?

    Thanks in advance.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  3. I haven't seen where either puts more strain on the recorder. I've used only Rs and only RWs in recorders, either way I get a year or two of fairly heavy use out of a recorder.
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  4. Since your Pioneer 520 dates from 2004, I can understand your concern about running down the burner: most 520s have exhibited minor or major burner issues by now. Since yours hasn't, you want to keep it that way.

    The older Pioneers (510,520, 531) follow a predictable pattern when their burners start to fade: the first thing to go is the ability to burn DVD-R, but for some strange reason they will still burn DVD-R/W for quite some time longer before finally failing completely. This would indicate DVD-R/W somehow puts less stress on the burner or is otherwise easier for it to handle. I think this might be because dye formulations for DVD-R/W have not gone thru as many changes and updates as those for DVD-R. Being four years old, the 520 has strategies for older 8x or less DVD-R media, unfortunately much of the current 16x media uses very recent (and sometimes inferior) dyes that the 520 has a hard time analyzing and writing to. DVD-R/W media is more expensive per disc, less popular at retail stores, and more complex to update, all of which means mfrs have largely left it the hell alone (a good thing).

    Go with DVD-R/W, it suits your workflow better and apparently the recorder also benefits. When you need to use DVD-R, stick to established known-good stuff that uses the older dyes, like 8x TY Premium Silver: my Pioneer 510, 520 and 531 spin these up immediately and never have a problem burning them. Avoid common "on sale" retail DVD-R like TDK, Maxell, and even the consumer-grade Verbatim: the Pioneer 520 ramps up and down much longer than usual trying to set a write strategy for them, and often fails, especially during hi-speed copy mode from the HDD. In my experience, older Pioneers burn out MUCH faster when I "force" them to deal with current retail DVD-R. Sticking to DVD-R/W or 8x DVD-R prolongs their life.
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    Originally Posted by PuzZLeR
    Using R media takes about 6 minutes to burn.
    Using RW media takes about 30 minutes - about 5x more.
    Seeing as their is some info not supplied, i'm going to assume some things here....

    Obviously you are recording content off the HDD in the recorder to the R & RW media because i doubt you are recording anything in real time in 6 minutes as opposed to 30 minutes.

    2nd, are your RW & R media rated for the same burn speed or is your R media rated at a faster burn speed ?

    3rd, will your recorder burn RW media as fast as R media ?

    4th, you do not mention at all what media you are using, either format, i know my panasonic works great with some media (Verbatim) and other crappier media (memorex ?) it has problems with, same as internal burners in a PC.

    Just something that struck me from the OP that no one else seemed to mention.
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  6. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Very kind of you to help. Thank you all!

    Some of the missing info from my first post: (Didn't realize till now )

    I burn straight from the hard drive ("high speed"). No "re-encoding" or "re-sizing" on the fly since I prefer to do it on the drive beforehand instead of further burdening the burning process.

    I'm using Sony discs. (Sorry Noahtuck but they really are the only "good" ones available at the local Wal-Mart that my player actually recommends...)

    The R media is 1x-8x and the RW media is 1x-2x, which explains the differences in speed. I can't find any faster RW...

    All are "-" (minus) media. That's the only thing my player can write on (yeah, you can tell I bought it a few years ago even without Orsetto's post... :P )

    My burner has had problems before until I used a cleaner. When it fails, it fails differently for each media - "incomplete" or "bad" burns on RW and "no burn at all" or "rejections" on R, so the media choice does affect it somehow as Orsetto mentions.

    It seems like the best choice for me would be a combo of faster burning (for less strain) and RW media. Does anyone know a faster RW choice I can mail order? Don't mind the price.

    Then again, if there is a great brand of R media that will be safe for the player (don't care for longevity) any recommendations would be welcome. I guess the project and safety of my player would be worth a few dozen coasters (hate waste though but ya gotta do what ya gotta do... )

    Thanks for your help so far.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  7. Check your manual before buying faster RW discs. A lot of older standalones are only compatible with 1-2x RWs. There may be a firmware update to allow faster RWs if it only uses 2x.
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  8. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Yes indeed thanks for the update. My manual says it can support DvD-RW up to 4X (Version 1.2).

    Just placed an order for a Verbatim 10-pack.

    From the replies, I would think this is the most optimal choice and balance for fastest speeds (less "burning strain"), safest media (RW), and better integration with my workflow (and no coasters). I guess ~15 min/burn on RW sounds like a great choice.

    I will report back with my results in case it benefits someone (or if there's a warning ).

    I appreciate the help from this forum as always. Thanks.
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  9. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Orsetto:

    The 8x Taiyo-Yuden looks like a great choice for a "one-write" option as well. I've been having a problem finding an RW version as well to go along with the order before I place it. I'm just wondering do you, or anybody else, know if they even have an RW choice as well (in "minus" and preferably 4x)? It looks like they only do R media.
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  10. The Verbatim RWs have worked flawlessly in every recorder I've used them in. I don't think TY sells RWs.
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  11. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    The Verbatim RWs have worked flawlessly in every recorder I've used them in.
    The reviews were excellent in fact - can't wait till my order gets here.
    Originally Posted by samijubal
    I don't think TY sells RWs.
    Looks like it. Maybe that's why their R media is so good since they focus on only one thing instead of two totally different formats which may dilute their quality.
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    I have another suggestion. I use Office Depot's "Office Depot" 4X DVD-RW medis with good results. It is very nearly as reliable as Verbatim using my 2005 vintage Panny recorder and LG burner, so it might be worth a try. I can't scan it because of my LG burner, but I haven't had a more than a handfull of coasters out of about 70 discs, and only one of those was DOA. Sometimes I can find it for as little as $7.99 for (I think) 25 discs. The media code is RITEK04, (made in Taiwan), in case you have to look for it under a different label in Canada.
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    I second Usually Quiets Office Depot recommendation. I've been using their -RW's for a few years now and haven't had a bad one. Very good value IMO. I think I also get the 25 pack spindle.
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  14. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Hi again. Got my Verbatim 10-pack (4x ver 1.2) yesterday - fast!

    Burning time is less than 15 minutes - did several tests today and not one problem. So I figure it's not as fast as 6 minutes, yet I'm using RW, no waste of discs and a safer media according to Orsetto (who guts these babies and would know :P ). At least I don't strain the burner for as long as 30 minutes so that's an improvement. I've placed an order for TY Silver as well for my one-writes.

    Usually_quiet and Jjeff, I actually have DvD+RW media from this brand for my PC and they've been great. Never considered their "-" media for a DVR till now, but will give them a shot now when I need more. Thanks for the tip.

    Problem solved. Thanks for your help my friends.
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    This was a great thread, and I am glad that I could contribute something useful to it.

    I hope nobody used that media code as a reference, though. It's wrong. It should be RITEKW04.

    I can't proof-read my own writing worth a darn.
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  16. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    I hope nobody used that media code as a reference, though. It's wrong. It should be RITEKW04.
    No problem - very easy to find. I now have them along with 100 TY DvD-Rs. After a few tests, all's well.

    After this thread I do get the impression that using RW media is more stable due to less changes in the format over the years, and the reduced burn time of 4X will ease wear and tear on my DVR's burner. And the TY discs will be great, safe, and reliable for my permanent burns.

    Thanks all.
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  17. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    I've revived this thread to report on the 10-pack Verbatim DvD-RW 4x ver 1.2 discs.

    After using them for a few months now, and re-using them almost a dozen times each disc, I can honestly say that this product is amazing.

    Not one problem. Not ONE. And this, after all the usual abuse I put my media through.

    Unlike any other brand, I've had no CRC errors, no burn failures, no missing files, no corrupt streams, etc, NOTHING.

    Not only do I get faster burns, but flawless ones too. These discs so far have a 100% success record.

    I recommend them highly and figure I should make this public, and share this tidbit, in case anybody else wants good RW media for their DVRs. And I sense no ill effect on my machine either. Since I've been using them, she's still humming along just fine.

    Thanks again for the help in this thread and - well done Verbatim!
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  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    RW media adds more wear and tear.
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  19. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    RW media adds more wear and tear.
    O RLY ? Can you explain that one to me ? I've been using Sony 2x DVD-RW on my Toshiba recorders based on a FUNAI drive and have burnt hundreds if not more discs and erased and re-burned, no problem whasoever. Now I am using Verbatim DVD-RW 4x. Usually the optical drives, if not defective out of the box, are rated to last for between 500-1000 disc burns on average and on very good ones more if you are lucky. Now I am talking about the Sony/Pioneer burners - As far as the Samsung or ot her burners used i'd say less. When you record in realtime, yes your optical drive is working much longer and eventually the drive will give in - but chances are you will get other failures first (finished caps, burnt resistors, failing encoder chipset, failing PSU - Unlike PCs, the shoddy quality PSus they use are not meant for 24/7 operation and have a very limited lifespan. Those recorders are supposed to REPLACE our trusty old VCRs that we used for many years, and still last - it is a total RIP OFF for manufacturers to use drives (both HDD, and optical) that break down within a year or less.
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  20. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    RW media adds more wear and tear.
    Uh-oh...

    Are you sure? Then again, I should make myself clear that my burns are in high-speed mode - no re-compression, or re-encode, of any kind (such as to "fit" a profile).

    Assuming just a straight copy, do you still feel that way?
    Originally Posted by highvolumeJP
    When you record in realtime, yes your optical drive is working much longer and eventually the drive will give in...
    I agree, and I personally think such burns on these units are silly. I avoid these types of transfers for several reasons: repetitive two-hour disc burns could be devastating (and time consuming) and the quality of the video would definitely suffer. You can always re-encode and adjust it in much better fashion, with better results, on your computer instead.
    Originally Posted by highvolumeJP
    Usually the optical drives, if not defective out of the box, are rated to last for between 500-1000 disc burns on average and on very good ones more if you are lucky.
    Well I've certainly been lucky after 4 years of use and I can say I got my money's worth. Replacing a DVR every few years isn't an issue financially as the fact that they are now officially scarce in the marketplace - even more so today than when I first posted this thread. This is my biggest concern actually if it fails...
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  21. I don't know about that RWs being harder on the recorder. When my recorders die they quit reading Rs but will still read RWs.
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  22. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    The reflectivity on RW media is less than that of write-once media, and thereby requires more laser/assembly wear to properly read/write the disc. Reading is more affected by reflectivity than the writing. However, the longer write times offset this. RW easily causes more wear. Is it so much as to be a concern? I don't think so.
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  23. If RWs are less reflective and cause more wear then why do dying lasers still read them and not Rs? I call B/S on that one.
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  24. The last couple of burners that failed on me choked on +RW discs first, but continued to burn +R discs ok, however several burns later, regular +R discs ended up as coasters too. *I rarely use -RW/-R discs, but I don't think that would make a difference. *From this it would appear that RW discs put more demand on a laser than regular discs.
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    If RWs are less reflective and cause more wear then why do dying lasers still read them and not Rs? I call B/S on that one.
    Reflectivity for dvdr is 45-85%, versus 18-30% for dvdrw. Whether they're "+" or "-" doesn't matter. Depending on where the specific subject disks fall within their respective ranges, dvdr is from 1.5 times to 4.7 times as reflective as dvdrw.
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  26. As Sherlock Holmes once put it, after you eliminate the utterly impossible, the remaining data is the truth no matter how improbable. Or words to that effect. While it doesn't seem to make sense that some failing lasers will read R/W but not R, those are the reports from the field. Possibly because R/W uses a slightly different setup strategy, especially the +R/W media, it may be easier for the laser to sync up with and read than the cruder write-once setup area, despite R/W being less reflective overall. Who knows. As far as R/W burning causing more wear than R burning, absent a formal scientific study all we have to go on are reports from recorder owners. A large majority of those reporting "premature" burner failure in standalones have said they use use R/W media for 50% or more of their recordings. A much smaller number of "premature failure" victims say they used write-once media exclusively with little or no R/W exposure. This is how members developed a consensus that R/W caused more wear on their machines. Not to say we couldn't be wrong on a larger scale, because our data comes from a relatively small group of users: its more correct to say "within the experiences reported *here on VH*, R/W seems to cause more wear". We have different usage patterns than the average casual consumer, which might also be skewing the statistics.
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