How to detect what causes a system lockup?

[sdsumike619]

I think I may have found this issue, maybe. I've discovered that I can reproduce the lockup (still randomly) using test prints instead of real prints that deduct from my account. This software has different shipping label layouts which are saved as files. You can modify these layouts to your liking and I have been using a modified layout for some time now. Well, I just opened one of the default layouts and printed two test prints in a row without a lock up. This doesn't tell me if it's solved but I have to print a half a dozen or so shipping labels so I will do so using this stock, unmodified layout. I'm really hoping this is it....... stay tuned (if you want haha)

[Nelson37]

So, you actually CAN do the same print job repeatedly?

And, NOW, you are telling us that YOU MADE CUSTOM FREAKING TEMPLATES that exist only on the one PC, THAT WOULD BE THE ONE THAT IS LOCKING UP!

You're GD right I am shouting, and there is a big stick in my hand right now. Since I'm gonna assume you're a bit dense, the stick is to beat you with.

[sdsumike619]

I never thought about using the test print, my bad.
As for the custom template, I made it a long time ago and we had printed hundreds of labels with it and it did not lock up until a month or so ago when this all started. I never suspected the template because nothing had changed with it.
So far so good, no lock ups yet using one of the stock shipping label templates. I don't know what could have possibly gone wrong with the template I was using. They provide the stock templates so you can modify them to fit your needs.

[Nelson37]

Very interesting.

The first rule in detecting what causes a system lockup is usually figuring out what the humans have done.

Not always causing a problem, but in creating a difference.

I would thoroughly and repeatedly test the PC hard drive for any errors or problems.

Re-create the custom template step-by-step, SMALL steps, test printing at each point. Either the whole template, or a font or graphic used in it, has become corrupted, enlarged in size, or somehow become incompatible with the program, at least some of the time.

Any program updates a month ago? Any new software installed, of any kind? Any new fonts? Any edits to a company logo possibly contained in the label? This is the "Did you mess with it?" section.

The irregular nature of the failure is troubling. Any connection to failures with long names or addresses, and success with short names and/or addresses? It could be something as simple as an updated font being slightly larger and running off the edge. These types of print programs are usually fairly rigid and simplistic.

Did you always use the custom template, and never any of the stock templates, during the recent problem phase?

If no external cause can be identified, I would be extra careful about backing up any critical data on this drive. Anytime a file changes by itself is a cause for concern about the HD.

[oldfart13]

"Failure caused by unknown". I get that one a lot. But my computers are old and the CPUs have known defects. I can't afford new ones so I live with the quirks. Luckily I have no problems with the printers other than running out of ink...

[RabidDog]

Just to join in the fun...Have you tried disconnecting and re-connecting all the cables involved? could be as simple as a loose cable?
Have you tried upgrading the memory in your HP laserjet? They do have memory in them and if you try to print a large graphic which is too big for the printer memory, it try s to get composited in system memory, causing what may appear to be a system lockup.
Also is the printer "allowed" to be connected to two inputs? USb and ethernet? at the same time?
Actually you seem to have narrowed the problem to one Pc or something peculiar to that PC..

[sdsumike619]

Thanks for the input, and so far, using the stock shipping label seems to have worked, fingers crossed!

[sikoone]

You don't happen to have an ATI AGP videocard do you? After installing the latest drivers (8.5) i started having the same issues after a fresh re-install of Windows. Out of curiosity i checked Rage3D.net forums to see if anyone was having issues with the new drivers and sure enough there was a hotfix for certain older AGP cards. After applying the hotfix the problem went away. If the problem persists maybe you might want to look into that too. I know you say the problem may be fixed but a little more info couldn't hurt. Link to drivers

[sdsumike619]

Nope, I have an nvidia card in there..

[Nelson37]

I am amazed.

The failure is not unknown, the cause is now quite clear.

A completly seperate set of connections, to a second PC has been made. The printer is a Samsung, not an HP. It is connected by USB only.

If you could reproduce this set of symptoms with a video card update only, I'll pay you $100.00, and I ain't exactly rolling in cash right now.

Still don't have failure rates - once a day, an hour, one per 100, one in 10, etc. - so only a rough guesstimate can be made, but the failure is pretty well isolated to the custom templates existing only on the original PC. A working solution has been found with no apparent drawbacks.

The exact cause of the failure can be found, through the procedures I outlined. Whether this is worth the effort depeds on the benefit gained from the custom templates. Since it worked before, it absolutely positively can be made to work again.

There is some value to the comment on printer memory. Due to missing information, the following scenario cannot be completely ruled out.

-- There have been no updates to the program, or changes to the template. The custom template contains a company logo, probably BMP. The printer memory may have been marginal to print this, possibly memory added from stock. At the time of problem origination, a portion of printer memory failed, or is possibly failing intermittently, accounting for the irregular nature of the problem. The stock templates, containing no logo, are smaller in size and do not utilize the amount of memory needed to cause the error. The possibility of this event causing a system lockup is emphasized by the program requirement for financial billing at each successful print event.

That is a completely wild guess, but is one of the few feasable hypotheses I can come up with that accounts for the symptoms described. More info and test results may well rule this out and point to simple minor HD failure as the actual culprit.

First and easiest step would be recreate from scratch the custom template on the laptop and print that. Re-create and/or verify any logo graphic in particular.

[Bjs]

Samsung Ml-2010 you say, lol, speaking of the brick I just bought.

You indicated no problems associated with the laptop printing to the device, yet problems arise mostly from using this particular printing labels product.

If printing problems appear using any other product to print to the printer, then there is far more going on with the desktop, than an actual fault with the printer.

A couple of questions :

Is this printer the only connected usb device during these problems ?
If not, run the tests without any other usb device connected.

Is this printer using a usb port supplied by an addon card ?
Suggest you check slot location, just because a slot on a mother board is free, dose not conclude it can be used.
If yes, describe slots locations on motherboard and whats installed into them.

Has there at any time ever been any warning messages from the system, if so, describe these, even if it appears to be unrelated ... as they say, things happens when you least expect them.

From here you might actually get closer to what the real problem is

Mine just keeps going.

[sdsumike619]

I am sticking with the solution we have found until it no longer works. I haven't had one lockup since switching to the stock shipping label. BTW, our custom label did not have any company logo. The only changes were the margins (increasing them, not decreasing) I will post again if it locks up but I think we're good to go *fingers still crossed*

[Nelson37]

It's the custom label, that's a professional opinion, not a guess.

Interesting about the margin change, does the program use stock Avery labels, or an Avery number? Are the labels supplied by the program maker? Does the error occur by any chance never on the first of a print series, but only later, as in 2nd, or 3rd, 4th, and so on? Or so on? Can you say "and/or so on"?

Speulating that the margin change causes a cumulative page error, low odds there as these are probably single-page prints.

It's probably not worth the hassle to really nail it down, now that there is a working solution. The sudden ocurrence of the problem for no known reason is one of those things that, if I had access to the system, would keep me up late figuring out the issue. Something caused a perfectly working system to change the way it operated, with no immediate indicators of why this might be so.

Solving crap like this is my idea of a good time, sad, ain't it?

[sdsumike619]

Nelson, these aren't avery labels at all. Pick up a sheet of letter size paper, turn it landscape and divide it in half vertically and that's what I have two big labels on a sheet. It was an intermittent problem. Sometimes I'd be able to print several and then it locked up. Sometimes the first one locked up, as well as the 2nd reprint after rebooting. There was no pattern at all. I used to be like you, wanting to be able to solve every problem no matter what it meant. Now I'm just fed up with the problems instead haha. But thanks again for the help

[Nelson37]

Somethimes ya just have to fall back on "THIS works, THAT doesn't, and I don't know why." Then you kinda just wander off, dazed, muttering " but it's SUPPOSED to work, the book says it should, what the heck is causing this NOT to work, but just SOMETIMES, not ALL the time, maybe if I re-calibrated the Johnson Framistats..."

[hongdida]

Has this repring function after a reboot ever worked, even once?

Does this printer print anything at all other than shipping labels?

How is this account balance updated? Internet connection, live for each transaction, or to an on-site balance file?

Looks like this program, only on one PC, is fairly regularly generating a corrupt print job. Take extra card the scanned bar codes are removed during the uninstall.

You might also want to check and/or disable any printer monitoring toolbox software, and also try turning off bi-directional support. These would not be present on the laptop, and can interfere with print programs.

it works by turning off bi-directional support. Strange but works.