What is a good DVD Recorder that has Component and/or HDMI Input(s)?

[KingKRool2002]

Does anyone know of any good DVD Recorders that have Component and/or HDMI Inputs? I have an HDTV and I would like to be able to record my playthroughs of 360 & PS3 games in HD (as opposed to the SD recordings that I do now). Also, I know that when the PSP is connected to a TV, the only way to view/record games is to have an HD connection (it's either 480i or 480p for PSP). I've looked at a lot of online websites for a DVD Recorder that has Component or HDMI Inputs, but I couldn't find any. I want it to last awhile (I've heard that some DVD Recorders break quite quickly). Even if it is just 480 HD, I'd like to be able to record that type of quality onto a DVD-R.

If anyone has any product suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks.

[wabjxo]

There's been only one "recent" DVDR with Component inputs... a Polaroid DMR2001G.

See this thread for lots of info (maybe too much).

[KingKRool2002]

Does the DVD Recorder last a long time? I've read that a lot of the older DVD Recorders breakdown right after their waranty expires.

[wabjxo]

If you consider that these forums are really mostly used by people with complaints or problems, any premature "deaths" will seem like that's all there are, but there are literally thousands of user who's machines last 5 years or more.

As they like to say in these forums, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)!

[KingKRool2002]

Thank you for all your help wabjxo. Did you mean POLAROID DRM-2001G? I couldn't find any listings for DMR2001G.

One last quick question. I found a site that has the DRM-2001G for sale, however, they do not have a Component Input listed for this product. This is all the info they have on the Inputs/Outputs:

Inputs:

Composite video input (front and rear)

S-video input (Y+C)

DV input (1394)

RF input

Analog audio input


Outputs:

Composite video output

S-video output (Y+C)

Component video output

Analog 5.1 channel audio output

Digital audio coaxial output

Digital audio optical output


System: NTSC

Impendance: 75 imbalance coaxial cable


Video Feature Outputs:

Composite video

System: NTSC

Video label: 1.00.2Vp-p 75

S-video

Y output level: 1.0 Vp-p 7

Please let me know if one of those things is a Component Input. I am a noob with all of that technical stuff. Again, thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

Thanks.

[samijubal]

I've yet to see a DVD recorder last anywhere near 5 years, except the E10 Panasonic I have, the first recorder released in the U.S., which cost a little less than $1000. I use mine pretty heavily, they only last me a year or two.

[wabjxo]

I've yet to see a DVD recorder last anywhere near 5 years, except the E10 Panasonic I have, the first recorder released in the U.S., which cost a little less than $1000. I use mine pretty heavily, they only last me a year or two.

Apparently lots of Panasonic E80 still around, since Spring 2003. Recently saw a "nostalgia" thread on it on AVS Forums.

[wabjxo]

Thank you for all your help wabjxo. Did you mean POLAROID DRM-2001G? I couldn't find any listings for DMR2001G.

One last quick question. I found a site that has the DRM-2001G for sale, however, they do not have a Component Input listed for this product.

Pretty certain the DRM-2001G (sorry for typo earlier) DOES have Component input cuz lots of knowledgeable people bought the unit just for that feature. One person (Nextoo) even FED his STB signal via Component to the 2001G so he could record 16:9 WS on his Toshiba DVDR attached to the 2001G's S-Video output... his STB wouldn't output widescreen 16:9 thru its own S-Video output so he used the 2001G as a "converter."

Anyway, here's a later post in that Polaroid thread I gave a link to earlier where one use was trying top get his Component input to work, which required him to send 480i from his STB, not 480p. (DVDRs can only take 480i input.)

There was a change in production after (I think) the A and B SN series where either A and B or only later SN units would pass a STB signal THRU THE 2001G's COMPONENT INPUTS while off (so it didn't have to be ON to feed 16:9 WS to other DVDRs on its S-Video output). Search for SN talk in that thread if interested. This became a widely sought after feature by Polaroid buyers after it was made known in that thread.

[jjeff]

King...-Not sure what you're expecting but No DVDR will record in HD quality, even the few with component inputs. The standard for DVD is 480 nothing better. Personally the only reason for a DVDR(like the Polaroid) with component inputs would be for someone with a device, like a STB that only outputs a certain signal via component. I don't think you're really going to get any better PQ from a Polaroid using component inputs vs. another quality DVDR using S-video input.
Personally I wouldn't touch a Polaroid with a 10' pole. Read to many horror stories from dissatisfied users. Again if you really need the component inputs I guess it would be your only option, other than a Apple TV type of device that converts component to S-video which can be recorded by any DVDR. Otherwise don't expect any PQ difference using a Polaroid component DVDR vs. a quality S-video DVDR.
No I've never had a Polaroid, I've tried plenty of other cheaper DVDR's to know I don't like the PQ of cheap DVDRs.

[neomaine]

jjeff,

While I mostly agree with what you said, I was going to post the same 'you can't get HD on DVD from a DVD recorder'...

...I'd only add that with a component or hdmi input you at least 'might' be able to get a 480p instead of a 480i recording which has its merits. It certainly would help the gaming capture.

[KingKRool2002]

King...-Not sure what you're expecting but No DVDR will record in HD quality, even the few with component inputs. The standard for DVD is 480 nothing better. Personally the only reason for a DVDR(like the Polaroid) with component inputs would be for someone with a device, like a STB that only outputs a certain signal via component. I don't think you're really going to get any better PQ from a Polaroid using component inputs vs. another quality DVDR using S-video input.
Personally I wouldn't touch a Polaroid with a 10' pole. Read to many horror stories from dissatisfied users. Again if you really need the component inputs I guess it would be your only option, other than a Apple TV type of device that converts component to S-video which can be recorded by any DVDR. Otherwise don't expect any PQ difference using a Polaroid component DVDR vs. a quality S-video DVDR.
No I've never had a Polaroid, I've tried plenty of other cheaper DVDR's to know I don't like the PQ of cheap DVDRs.

So I can only get 480 input with the DVD Recorder? I would be connected it to an HDTV (and my 360 system). What would happen if I tried to record 720 or 1080 HD quality from my 360 system? Would the screen be completely blank? Or would it just record it in SD? I think the PSP only plays in HD 480 when you connect it to a TV. Do you think the Polaroid DVD Recorder would allow me to record that (with an HDTV)? That's the main reason why I want a DVD Recorder than can record HD. The one I have now (Samusng R130) doesn't have a Component Input, so I can't record my PSP games with that. Sadly, I already bought the Polaroid online and can't return it. I hope it works out okay. You mentioned that the Polaroid DVD Recorders don't work well, do you recommend getting extra warranty with it?

[wabjxo]

Since you've already got a Samsung DVDR, another option if you don't like the Polaroid, which you can't retuirn now, is to use the Polaroid to convert from Component to S-Video out to the Samsung, which preserves WS to the Samsung... all still in 480 tho... no current DVDR can do any better since that's the SDTV/DVD spec.

That's what Nextoo used to use his 2001G for on his Toshiba... to preserve the WS out from his STB.

The only unknown still is will the 360 and PS3 send gameplay normally thru the Component, which I think it WILL do if connected to a TV, or will it sense the end device is not a TV and send a downgraded signal, also as it's set to do. I think the Polaroid will keep gameplay intact cuz one of its other good features was weak or nonexistent copy protection... not sure if all SN series retained that feature, cuz I seem to remember they changed some things, like CP, in later SN runs. Hope you get an A, B or C unit... I think!?

You might have been better served to do a little research in that thread I gave you before ordering so you could maybe find just the right SN unit for your purposes?

[wabjxo]

Arggghhh! I just realized the problem we didn't think of. Altho the Polaroid does have Component input, the sending device needs to be told to send 480i or the pic will be scrambled, as described in that link I gave above to the AVS Forum thread, and in this snippet from cnet forum:

"Well, I have good news....and I have bad news.
Yes, there most definetly is component INPUT and OUTPUT, the bad news is, I hooked up High Def Cable box component out, to the DVD component input, but when I tuned in the HD channels....the picture is scrambled....not sure if it is a resolution or problem with the cable. Now the recorder also has S-Video input, which i used next, the HD picture comes through and looks better than regular channels....Excellent quality with the s-video."

I was so fixated on the request for Component input, the need to send 480i got lost in the fog! While the Component connection CAN send HD formats, the end device (Polaroid) won't like it in that form.

[KingKRool2002]

Arggghhh! I just realized the problem we didn't think of. Altho the Polaroid does have Component input, the sending device needs to be told to send 480i or the pic will be scrambled, as described in that link I gave above to the AVS Forum thread, and in this snippet from cnet forum:

"Well, I have good news....and I have bad news.
Yes, there most definetly is component INPUT and OUTPUT, the bad news is, I hooked up High Def Cable box component out, to the DVD component input, but when I tuned in the HD channels....the picture is scrambled....not sure if it is a resolution or problem with the cable. Now the recorder also has S-Video input, which i used next, the HD picture comes through and looks better than regular channels....Excellent quality with the s-video."

I was so fixated on the request for Component input, the need to send 480i got lost in the fog! While the Component connection CAN send HD formats, the end device (Polaroid) won't like it in that form.

I guess I'll just have to try and sell the Polaroid DVD Recorder online and hope that I get a decent amount of money back. Wish me luck.

EDIT: I read in a FAQ that 480p is better than 480i with the 360. Will the Polaroid work okay in 480p?

[jjeff]

When copying DVD's I always have my player set to progressive scan(480p output). It works fine. Wajo is also correct in saying that even though the Polaroid has component inputs the input must be 480, 720p, 1080i/p will result in scrambled picture. Note I've never had a DVDR w/component inputs but I did have a tuner that would output HD over S-video and trying to record that I got a scrambled picture.
King..I'm a little confused by your comment that your PSP only outputs HD 480? 480 is SD, even 480p is SD. HD does not start until 720p? Again if you're talking about 480p I believe any DVDR will record that, even ones with just s-video inputs.

[wabjxo]

From what I've read on people wanting to record "gameplay," the box-makers don't want you to actually record that stuff, just WATCH it, like our stupid movie situation, etc. I've read that the game boxes are supposed to be hooked to a TV via HDMI and (maybe) Component is OK too, but as soon as you output to an 480 analog connection, the box senses that and downgrades the signal to 480 and a PQ that gamers don't like.

[KingKRool2002]

From what I've read on GameFaqs' message board, you have to use component cables to connect your PSP to your TV (so you can display the game's image on the TV screen instead of the PSP screen). According to one of the threads there

(http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=918340&topic=43217574),

the PSP runs in 480p. For some reason, UMD movies will work with a Composite cable, but games will only work with a Component cable. That's why I need a DVD Recorder that has Component Inputs. Do you think the Polaroid's component input will display the PSP game stuff unscrambled? Jjeff, does the input need to be 480p or 480i? Is there a noticeable difference between 480i & 480p?

Thanks.

[jjeff]

Yes then it sounds like the Polo might be your best option. It should record 480p just fine. Like I said I output 480p from my player to recorder via S-video and the results are quite good. Personally I don't know if I can really tell a difference between 480p and 480i but I leave it on 480p since I figure it can't hurt. Kind of like upconverting DVD players. IMO most quality TVs do as good a job or better doing the upconverting than a cheaper upconverting player, but thats another story. Sorry I'm ignorant on anything about game players so I can't specifically comment on the output they may or not provide, but recording 480p should not be a problem with any DVDR, at least that I've seen.
Good luck!

[wabjxo]

Unfortunately, an S-Video or Composite connection will always convert to 480i. I have my Philips 3575 set for Progressive scan ON and when I send the signal thru my composite or S-Video connections, the TV shows it's receiving 480i.

They can't handle a Progressive scan pic... bandwidth to big for each frame. That's the sole purpose for inventing Component, to separate the video elements into smaller (separated) video/sync portions the cable can handle.

[jjeff]

You're right, just did a test and indeed I cannot output progressive via S-video. I didn't know that. No wonder I didn't really see any difference between progressive and interlaced, recording DVD player to DVD recorder using S-video. Indeed it is progressive via component. Then I guess I can't say for sure what the Polaroid would do if you tried to record a progressive signal. Thanks for clarifying that Wajo

[KingKRool2002]

I guess I'll find out when the DVD Recorder arrives. I'll let you know if it records 480p via the Component Input. Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it. If you have any more tips or info, please let me know. Wish me luck!

[wabjxo]

I guess I'll find out when the DVD Recorder arrives. I'll let you know if it records 480p via the Component Input. Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it. If you have any more tips or info, please let me know. Wish me luck!

Make sure you also send the Polaroid signal via S-Video to your Samsung and see what the Samsung does with it.

If it's like all the other things I've read, you'll prob. end up having to send 480i out of the boxes (hopefully they have that option) cuz that's the only thing the Polaroid might not scramble (cuz it gets P****ed off if you send it Progressive). But maybe the 480i out to the Samsung might gather some sort of "pixie dust" on its circuitous journey and magically blossom into an amazing pic!!?

Sounds like maybe the Apple TV Converter might have been a better option to explore.

But, certainly, I do wish you a great deal of luck!

[KingKRool2002]

Just out of curiousity, how would I record with Apple TV? I know it works with 720p & 1080 HDTVs, but, according to wikipedia, you cannot record anything with Apple TV. You can only watch movies purchased through ITunes and streamed through Youtube. Let me know about this. I may be able to sell the DVD Recorder and look into another method.

[wabjxo]

I don't know a whole lot about the Converter, but I'm talking about just the Decoder box, not the SW and stuff for computer work.

Here's a thread started by Nextoo with lots of good info on the unit he actually tested. He has a link to the Decoder in 1st post. Price has gone up some from the original post.

[KingKRool2002]

I am a little bit confused on what he said about the product. I am a noob with this converting stuff. I think that what it does is convert an HD signal from the TV (i.e. 720p or 480p) into a signal that is recordable via the AppleTV (or DVD Recorder). Is that correct? I am a little bit confused on whether or not it downscales the image from HD (i.e. 720p) to SD. The topic mentions that this is good for DVD Recorders that do not have a component input. Won't the same problem with the Polaroid DVD Recorder happen with this then? Do I need to purchase the AppleTV to use this or can I just use my Samsung DVR-130 (or the Polaroid DVD Recorder)? I don't really understand some of the stuff that they talk about in that topic, wabjxo could you please try to explain it to me a bit in simpler terms? I am hoping that I don't have to buy the AppleTV to use this device. Sorry for the long post. Thanks.

[jjeff]

You should be OK with the Polaroid. If you didn't have that something like the Apple would also work along with your Sammy DVDR.

[wabjxo]

I am a little bit confused on what he said about the product. I am a noob with this converting stuff. I think that what it does is convert an HD signal from the TV (i.e. 720p or 480p) into a signal that is recordable via the AppleTV (or DVD Recorder). Is that correct? I am a little bit confused on whether or not it downscales the image from HD (i.e. 720p) to SD. The topic mentions that this is good for DVD Recorders that do not have a component input. Won't the same problem with the Polaroid DVD Recorder happen with this then? Do I need to purchase the AppleTV to use this or can I just use my Samsung DVR-130 (or the Polaroid DVD Recorder)? I don't really understand some of the stuff that they talk about in that topic, wabjxo could you please try to explain it to me a bit in simpler terms? I am hoping that I don't have to buy the AppleTV to use this device. Sorry for the long post. Thanks.

I can only post a comment from one of Nextoo's posts where he ordered and tested the Decoder (he calls it a Converter), which is only part of Apple TV... it's the box that converts/decodes various incoming signals so they can be loaded into a computer-based Apple TV system. You don't need the computer portion, just the decoder box.

Click the link he gave in Post #1 of that thread link I gave you... it shows the "Decoder" itself.

Here's what Nextoo said after his first test, and I think it explains it quite clearly:

"I ordered one of these and it works as advertised. It does a good job of converting a 16x9 widescreen output from an STB via component to s-video.

For those that want to record full 16x9 widescreen from an HD source (480i) but their STBs will only output widescreen via component (and your DVD recorder does not have component inputs) then this will do the trick. It doesn't set any flags but it will convert component output to s-video without any artificial letterboxing."

P.S. In one of his later posts he also says it acts as a "video filter" for copying CP-protected stuff. Since those "filters" cost as much or more than the Decoder box ($129), it'll be doing double-duty for the user... retain 16:9 aspect thru S-Video output, and allow copying of CP-protected stuff! Such a deal!

Disclaimer: All this is intended for info only since I have NO direct experience with the devices and processes mentioned.

DON'T BUY THIS TILL YOU'VE RECEIVED THE POLAROID AND TESTED IT FOR 16:9 RECEPTION OVER COMPONENT FROM YOUR GAME BOXES! I'm guessing the problem might be in outputting any decent 16:9 WS signal from the game boxes that has to be sent in 480i format... the format required by the DVDR??? From the sounds of it, it appears the Apple TV Decoder box *MAY* be able to preserve the WS signal thru it, but if the ORIGINAL signal coming out of the game boxes is automatically degraded (sneaky devils they are) to unacceptable PQ, ALL attempts to record the gameplay will suffer from that auto-degraded PQ!?? Just a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)!

Disclaimer #2: I am woefully ignorant in this gameplay stuff! You might even say, instead of an "Oracle" in this field, I'm more like a "Debacle"!!!

[KingKRool2002]

Okay, so basically, I have 2 options:

(1) Use the Polaroid's Component Input to record 480i/p

(2) Use my Samsung DVD Recorder and connect it to the converter/decoder and record 480i/p (or higher HD signals) that way.

Also, this was mentioned in one of the posts in that topic:

"Also this device does not scale. It sends a high definition signal out via svideo (my STB has to be set at 480i for the Toshiba to be able to record). This may be of interest if somebody wants to send a high definition video signal to an svideo input on an HD television. I haven't tested this yet to an HD TV but based on how the DVD recorder reacted when the cable STB was set to 480p, 720p and 1080i it is obvious the svideo from the device is in HD."

Does this mean that you can record HD (i.e. 1080i) with the DVD Recorder (using the converter)? Also, what does it mean when it says that the converter doesn't scale? Does this mean that the picture will get all scrambled? One other quick question, what does STB mean?

Thanks.

EDIT: Good idea. I won't buy the converter until I've tested to see if the Polaroid works.

[wabjxo]

I think he's just saying that HD can be preserved out of the Decoder box IF THE RECEIVING DEV ICE CAN HANDLE HD. That's just it, a DVDR can't handle anything except 480i as an input, so your above notes should eliminate the "p" after 480... no can do. A progressive (p) scan delivers each video frame as ONE pic, which has ~double the size/bandwidth as an interlaced (i) pic, which is delivered in two separate fields for each video frame, so easier to send on old cables and record on old-technology SDTV recorders.

"It doesn't scale" means, I think, it's not like a HDTV that can receive a 480i/p or other format signal and scale it up to its native resolution, like 1080p for a 1080p LCD or Plasma (all of which are fixed-pixel, which means their ONLY resolution is 1080p (or other number like 720P), so all incoming signals are scaled to that format... could even be scaled down.

An "STB" is a Set-Top Box, like a sat. receiver or cable box.

[KingKRool2002]

Okay, that's too bad that the DVD Recorder can't handle 480p (or any other p resolution signal). Out of curiousity, why does Polaroid have a Component Input on that model DVD Recorder if it can only record SD resolution? That seems strange. I think the PSP only works in 480p, this means that I can't record it at all (even with the Polaroid one). Has anyone heard of the Archos products? I know they can record Composite stuff from your TV. Does anyone know if they (or any other company) sell a device that can record HD stuff? I think you use an Archos with a DVR station to record SD stuff from your TV. Do you think I could connect the decoder box to the Archos DV Station (which only takes Composite in cables) and record HD that way? It records the stuff onto a small hard drive in the handheld Archos unit. The DVR Station has a Component Output, but not a Component Input. My Archos unit is quite old. This is just a wild idea. It's the only other thing I can think of. Do you think it might work?