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  1. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    For HD video, a good script is:
    Tfm(order=-1).tcdecimate(hybrid=1)

    Which leaves you with fps=23.976. High quality, good efficiency and saves up to 20% on bitrate.

    However, I'm trying to write a guide to encoding regular H.264 in SD for blu-ray, and to make my life difficult, the BD folk do not allow 24p with SD. You must enable “interlaced encoding” with x264, and only fps=29.97 is accepted (at least as a primary stream). However, HC Encoder pulls this off with 23.976fps with MPEG-2. I have no idea how it’s flagging the pulldown flag effectively.

    Using the above script works for SD beautifully, but the resultant 23.976 is not compliant. Shame. I’ve tried it again, this time included ChangeFPS(29.97) after the deinterlacing. It’s compliant and doesn’t add that much bitrate, however, I tend to notice a little “ghosting” and maybe some slight jerkiness. Maybe it’s my eyes, but I’m not feeling confident with this.

    I have tried Yadif, both Yadif(order=-1) and Yadif(order=1) depending. It gives the result, but IMO not as nice as using detelecline for the same bitrate.

    Can some people throw me a few good scripts that deinterlace (almost) as good, and efficiently, as deteleclining yet keeps the fps to 29.97? Or, better yet, how do I get the proper pulldown "flags" working?

    I always get great advice on this forum. Thanks so much.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  2. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    Not sure if I understand, but have you tried DGpulldown ?
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  3. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Hey Soopafresh, yes you did (almost) understand me.

    However, I'm not suffering from a lack of solutions/tools regarding pulldown from MPEG-2 to MPEG-2, and this tool would be an answer if it served H.264 though. (Alas, not sure if such a tool exists ATM).

    Or, do you, or anyone want to share some of their best de-interlacing scripts to help me out? I probably only really need a good script that retains the source fps of 29.97.

    Thanks again.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  4. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    MVFlowFPS2 from the MVtools package (read the documentation for examples) is by far the best plugin for fps changing. I could swear I've seen a utility for h264 which can modify the headers to a different reported frame rate, though. I'll look around.

    Edit: This perhaps? https://www.videohelp.com/tools/H264info
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  5. I like TomsMoComp; it's a bit slower than Yadif but usually a bit better in quality (IMO). But if Yadif wasn't that good I doubt it will improve your results. Worth giving it a shot

    TomsMoComp(0,5,1)
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  6. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Hello again my friends.

    I will definitely give MVFlowFPS2 and TomsMoComp a test run tonight for sure. Thanks for the advice!

    Soopafresh:
    Yes I did give h264info a shot. The author does have good intentions, however I believe the tool needs a bit more time. When I change the fps with it or play with pulldown, I get sync issues when muxing. I have a friend who's knowledgable with Scenarist helping me out and he still hasn't been able to get a 23.976fps AVC SD stream accepted without an "issue". But I will get him to play around with it a bit more.

    Poisondeathray:
    Yadif is indeed very good. Maybe I'm being too picky wanting less frames to encode. :P

    BTW - AVC SD encoding for BD has several curve balls (interlacing, fps, PAR, rez, NTSC, PAL, etc). This is the final hurdle for me now that I think I nailed it down. Thanks for contributing! Now if only I can find the time to write this guide...
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  7. Member Soopafresh's Avatar
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    It's Tdecimate that's changing the fps to 23.976. Try it with just TFM

    "TFM is a field matching filter that will recreate the original progressive frames in a telecined source"
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  8. Yeah, but without the TDecimate line you have a dupe frame in every 5 and stuttery playback.

    Me, I don't understand the purpose of 720x480/576 Blu-Ray when you can make a standard DVD much more easily (and if what PuzZLeR is saying about Blu-Ray is true, much better as well). No need to deinterlace. No need to invent frames out of thin air and the artifacts it will inevitably create. Not to mention the extra time involved in messing with Blu-Ray.
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  9. Member NerdWithNoLife's Avatar
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    Yes, unless you can do the equivalent of what DGPulldown does, you don't have many options. You could:

    1 Pull it down for real and have a telecined 29.97fps video, wasting bandwidth
    2 Have one duplicate frame in every five progressive frames, wasting bandwidth and getting jerky motion
    3 Convert the frame rate with something like interpolation, losing quality of course

    Even if you tried a normal deinterlace on the telecined video, at best you would have the same thing as the second option, and most likely it would be worse! I'd view that as a complete waste of time. Manono has a good point - DVD may be the way to go.
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  10. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    Me, I don't understand the purpose of 720x480/576 Blu-Ray when you can make a standard DVD much more easily (and if what PuzZLeR is saying about Blu-Ray is true, much better as well). No need to deinterlace. No need to invent frames out of thin air and the artifacts it will inevitably create. Not to mention the extra time involved in messing with Blu-Ray.
    Even if you tried a normal deinterlace on the telecined video, at best you would have the same thing as the second option, and most likely it would be worse! I'd view that as a complete waste of time. Manono has a good point - DVD may be the way to go.
    I fully agree myself on that respect. I personally will do alot of HD encoding myself. SD does have a good home on DvD.

    But SD on BD does have one purpose. It's really for the folk currently using codecs like DivX, Xvid, NeroDigital and particularly x264, to encode low-bitrate video for personal stuff, TV series, music videos, etc. I know for a fact that the x264 community has been waiting for their stand-alone player for eons. Why not on their blu-ray players as a bonus along with their HD content? This is the mindset behind this project really. This is for them. (Me too :P )

    And as you can see folks, the "Powers That Be" at the BDA decided to make AVC SD encoding difficult on purpose - to discourage it. This wasn't the only hurdle but I'm almost done now. Ironically, HD-DvD made 24p legal even for SD and even allowed VCD rez too!

    I will give the deinterlacing suggestions some tests and report back. I appreciate the replies.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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  11. But SD on BD does have one purpose. It's really for the folk currently using codecs like DivX, Xvid, NeroDigital and particularly x264, to encode low-bitrate video for personal stuff, TV series, music videos, etc.
    If it has to be reencoded anyway, there goes your one purpose, as Blu-Ray players also play DVDs.
    Why not on their blu-ray players as a bonus along with their HD content?
    Because, if, as you say (I have no idea, but it sounds real fishy to me), you can't encode for progressive 23.976fps or even progressive 23.976fps with pulldown, then you'll come up with something inferior to what's possible with DVD. And DVDs also play on Blu-Ray players.
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    Greets,

    Yes, Puzzler it is a shame that that great program DGPulldown does not work on H264 files. I have used it to great affect to convert sd video from progressive 25fps to 29.97fps for playback on my SD NTSC TV.

    I think I follow what you are trying to do and may be able to help you in a roundabout way via another thread. There is a thread on another forum where people are trying to do something similiar. They are working with the idea on converting HD blu-ray content onto a SD DVD in a blu-ray structure to be playable on a blu-ray set top player. Doing this with x264, minimal quality loss plus the price savings of DVD over BD for the burn medium. It is not exactly about de-interlacing, granted, but you may be able to garner a usefull idea or two from their process. Either way you are both trying to get H264 playable as SD - I think .

    My apologies for linking to another forum. I feel the author jdobbs is well respected and has created a fantastic program called DVD-RB. I have used it for quite a few years with HCenc and even CCE to make backups of my dvds. I am just now getting my feet wet with x264, AutoMKV (MKV & AC3) and others to compress my SD DVD's to a more manageable size. Want to put them onto hard drive as a video juke box for my HTPC. I will still be living with SD for a few more years to come before swapping over to HD as a primary. All in all I would be excited to see more x264 / H.264 / AVCHD features integrated into DVD-RB.

    Here is the link. It starts out as wanting to backup up several SD DVD's onto a BD. Then morphs into the idea of putting BD onto a SD DVD. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=135335 . Good luck and hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Rick
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    Hans: Well now, with a 25 pound shell that is not easy.

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  13. Member PuzZLeR's Avatar
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    @Manono:

    You misinterpret me my friend. I’m not saying that AVC SD on BD is better than using DvDs. And I’m not saying we should even be using BD for SD content either. All I’m really implying is that if you do indeed use x264 to compress your SD content to a smaller bitrate, as many do, then a 100% compliant blu-ray option would be interesting indeed. A handful of BD discs, with H.264 can equal 100’s of DvD-Rs.

    You do make a good point though in that without effective pulldown it does weaken the overall objective. But that’s what this thread is about though.

    But the good news is that that I’ve actually been doing lots of tests on over a dozen BD players recently (bribed a sales clerk at Best Buy ). Not all accept DvD discs with BD content on them yet of course (SD or HD), but of those that do, all of them played my BD AVC SD, even at 24p, nicely and they look great. My problem isn’t playability, it’s that it’s not “standard” and that means that the possibility is there that not all players will accept it because Scenarist does NOT accept them according to my contact.

    @RickA:

    You are not off point. The bigger topic is indeed BD SD AVC playback, not just deinterlacing, otherwise I’d just be encoding at 24p, my guide would be complete, and this thread would be useless. The HD spec is easy. It’s the SD spec that is maddening. And like you, I’ll still be using SD content for years yet.

    And yes, I’m familiar with that thread. It’s very appealing to play high quality video, HD and SD, compressed to inexpensive DvD discs that play on BD. I agree with you that DVD-RB is a nice piece of work. The author is gearing towards BD for sure, but I have a sense his emphasis is more for HD content. Why not? He’s got a great SD thing going with the incumbent app.

    And any input you offer is appreciated. Thank you.
    I hate VHS. I always did.
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