need opinions on blank media - Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden

[SCDVD]

I've said it before, and been jeered at for my pains, but little by little other folks are beginning to report what I've experienced myself: Verbatim ain't what it used to be, at least the single-layer (the double-layer aside from an occasional hiccup now seems to have better QC worldwide). A couple years ago MCC started sub-contracting Verbatim SL to conglomerates that make mostly *crap* media, the idea being the huge "crap" factories could achieve better productivity than MCC themselves as long as they followed MCCs processes and formulas. This arrangement worked for about a year, the "crap" factories produced Verbatims about as well as MCC used to. Then last year they changed something, no one knows what because they still identify as "MCC" media with the traditional codes. But they WERE CHANGED. People who had never before EVER had a coaster with Verbatims began getting failed burn after failed burn, or the discs would be spit out by older standalones as "unrecognized media".

This itself should have been a wake-up call: even when testing the worst "junk" media, I had never before had a recorder spit it out as unrecognized- it would at least try to burn using default schemes and then fail halfway thru. With these 2007 and later Verbatims, no dice- spits em right out. This happens on my various Pioneers and JVCs, the only machine I own that will load and burn current Verbatim DVD-R is my Pioneer 640 (great burner in that unit). So my vote is to grab as much TY 8x Premium as you can afford and stockpile it. In a pinch, Sony DVD-R media at retail also gives pretty good results in older recorders as long as its marked "Taiwan", Sony Malaysia is problematical.

I agree with your concern and have expressed misgivings about this in the past. When Mitsubishi was the manufacturer, Quality Control was well handled. But when Verbatim started out sourcing the manufacturing, I became concerned because unfortunately they are dealing with some real sleaze bags. Even with a large QC staff on site, it still isn't enough to keep an eye on everything when the sneaks that run these places will pull stuff when they get a chance. Even though they play along with when they are forced to, the fact remains that these jokers think QC is stupid and a "waste of money". The unfortunate fact is that Taiyo Yuden is the only media manufacturer now that has everything in-house.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I don't use Verify(on any burn software) because it isn't accurate and it takes too long,besides the disc is already burned and there's nothing you can do about it.

[pattirose]

pattirose

What you posted, while not a burn log, does show that your TS-L632M drive is using firmware version 0917. The Samsung website (here) is currently distributing version SC03. Follow the "LiveUpdate" links at the Samsung site for the easiest, safest way to update your firmware. Updating to the newest firmware is generally a good first step, and may solve many problems.

I installed it but when I check the status it says "the model installed in your PC is not a supportable model"

That means nothings been changed right? Should I uninstall it then?

[Seeker47]

So my vote is to grab as much TY 8x Premium as you can afford and stockpile it. In a pinch, Sony DVD-R media at retail also gives pretty good results in older recorders as long as its marked "Taiwan", Sony Malaysia is problematical. (BTW I totally agree laptop burners are even more picky about media than old DVD recorders, the worst being the slot-load Matsushitas in Apple laptops.)

Or in older ThinkPads. Even with good media, they are prone not to read CDs burned at a faster speed than in the 4x - 10x range.
Your news about Verbatim is not all that shocking, as most everything seems to be chasing the lowest possible manufacturing cost these days -- quality and reliability be damned.

[VegasBud]

pattirose,

Yes, that's correct. If the samsung software doesn't support your model, it wouldn't have made any changes, and you might as well uninstall the software. Samsung does list the TS-L632M drive as supported, and has updated firmware for it, but it appears they don't support drives distributed to computer manufacturers for use in systems.

You could try the website for whoever made your computer, and see if they have updated firmware. I hope it wasn't made by HP because a quick google search shows several people unable to get updated firmware from HP (for your drive). If the computer manufacturer doesn't have updated firmware available for your drive, there isn't much you can do on that front.

Since the 8x Verbatim worked fine, but the 16x were just fodder for the coaster factory, it sounds like your current firmware had a write strategy for the older disks, but not for the newer disks. When that happens, the firmware for most drives have a generic ("gamble") write strategy that they use. As you can tell from the use of the word "gamble" to describe the strategy, it's not likely to work so well, if at all (sound familiar?). If that's the case, the default laser power level in the gamble write strategy may be too far off to work. Enabling OPC (as I described earlier) may be enough to swing the coasters into usable burn territory, as OPC checks the recommended laser power level in the write strategy and (generally) 7 higher, 7 lower levels in an attempt to find the best power level.

If enabling OPC doesn't work, you're left with three options I can think of:

1) Order some of the 8x Verbatims (that you know work) online. If you can wait, that's probably the safest bet.

2) Try older media that was around when your firmware was written (8x or less), rather than newer media. TYG02 would probably work, but you're not likely to find it at your local stores, and you'd have to order it online.

3) Take redwudz's earlier advice to get an external burner ($55+ at newegg, but less than you could spend trying to find alternate media that works with your current drive).

If anyone has any additional recommendations, I'm sure pattirose would appreciate the input.

[jman98]

I've been buying the Verbatim DataLifePlus (both +R and -R) from rima.com for my single layer needs and those have been top notch.

[pattirose]

Yes I have HP, but that saves me the time and trouble looking around for the update. I will try enabling that OPC.

The 100 spindle of 16X I returned to the store and they gave me my $$ back, believe me I know how lucky that was!
I did find Verbatim 8X DataLifePlus, online and that's what I'm having issues with. Today I tried burning at 2X and while the disc played better than the others it still froze 9-10 times during the credits. Which really doesn't matter if that's the only place they are going to freeze.

I have some Verbatim DataLifePlus DVD-RW 1-2X that work fine so I think I will stick with those until I can find the ones I was using before.

Again I would like to thank everyone for all the help - I appreciate it.

[Seeker47]

Enabling OPC (as I described earlier) may be enough to swing the coasters into usable burn territory, as OPC checks the recommended laser power level in the write strategy and (generally) 7 higher, 7 lower levels in an attempt to find the best power level.

I'm thinking OPC must be a default setting for ImgBurn ? I don't recall ever explicitly selecting this, after an install or update of ImgBurn, but I see a status indicator flash by on some burns, stating that it is in operation.

[MilesAhead]

I don't use Verify(on any burn software) because it isn't accurate and it takes too long,besides the disc is already burned and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm with you there. Plus any of the "quality test" utilities I've tried don't work with my burners
so I can't really test if there's a correlation between those discs that test well and those that
play well in my stand-alones.

The other thing I've noticed when buying spindles from the large online stores, if I have good
luck with a particular brand of 16x DVD+r(I don't have the patience to do 8x burns) and buy
up a bunch, it seems like it gets to the point where the discs show 16x support when you
load 'em in Imgburn, but they actually won't burn faster than 12x and sometimes get
freezes on playback. What I've been doing is setting the burn speed on these to 12x
instead of Max and they seem to be playing ok. Just seems weird. I've seen this same
thing on 3 different brands so far. I've taken to using the Imgburn auto speed setting
using the disc ID so I can use shell extensions that run Imgburn with it set to Max.

No big deal as 12x only takes about 20-30 seconds longer to burn a full DVD5 anyway.. but
it is a bit strange.

I tend to try to use Verbatim only because they will burn at 16x on both of my PCs.
The only Verbatim that have acted weird, like not wanting to burn at 16x, I've purchased
on sale in brick&morter stores. The online spindles seem to be okay(or I've been lucky.)

[lordsmurf]

If you're having trouble with Verbatim media, your burner is probably dying.

[SCDVD]

If you're having trouble with Verbatim media, your burner is probably dying.

That highlights a good point. Some people take whatever they have and anchor that as the center of the universe and measure everything relative to that. It's important when evaluating a problem to considering everything in the picture including what you are using as the basis for evaluating other things. For example, the "bad gas" that you just bought may just be a bad timing adjustment on your car.

[aedipuss]

smurf is wrong. currently verbatim is produced in many different countries and the quality control is not what it used to be, even compared to last year.

[pattirose]

I did the OPC thing and it did nothing I can notice - discs still freeze and that is burning at 2X. I have no trouble with the 25 spindles or the RW discs from Verbatim so I doubt if it's my burner.
Roxio has a setting that says "stage to hard drive for better quality" I am going to try that with the next disc then I am giving up until I can find my 25 spindles of 8X DVD-R.

[VegasBud]

Seeker47,

The default setting for "Perform OPC Before Write" is "enabled" in ImgBurn 2.4.0.0, and "disabled" in version 2.4.1.0, so the default setting depends on which version you're using.

[VegasBud]

pattirose,

It appears the only remaining way to help is to assist you in trying to find some some of the magic disks you need, so....are these what you're looking for? If so, I can vouch for Adorama being a reputable company. If those aren't the right disks, can you give me more information I can use to identify the right ones (so I can recognize them if I do find them)?

[budz]

smurf is wrong. currently verbatim is produced in many different countries and the quality control is not what it used to be, even compared to last year.

I with aedipuss! :wink:
It's a well known fact that VERBATIM's quality control has gone downhill. As I mentioned before the 100 pack spindles are flaky therefore buy the 50 pack spindles instead.

[pattirose]

Nope not them.
I found the magic discs online but they put the price up from 5.99 to 19.99 but considering all the $$ and trouble I've had I'm beginning to think they are a steal. Here is a link: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10088881&catid=

Now it's bugging me what exactly what is so "special" about these discs. I checked the # on them with that one program someone suggested upthread and they are MCC02RG20 just like the others and they are made in Taiwan but I've gone thru 4-5 spindles and never had a coaster yet.

[VegasBud]

pattirose,

From the link you provided, I got the Mfr. Part Number (95048), put "verbatim 95048" (without the quotes) into google, and came up with a whole bunch of places in Australia & New Zealand...plus this place which shows they have "10+" in stock (online) for $6.69 each. I have absolutely no idea it it helps at all but they also show the store in Vaughn has 4 in stock.

[pattirose]

I am in awe!! YOU ROCK - THANK YOU!!
(that's even a Canadian place)

[FulciLives]

You cannot get better than Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD media ... be it -R or +R ... so buy some. If they work ... then great ... if they don't work ... then you know the DVD Burner is dying ... dead ... needs to go for a new one.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[shiet]

do all the Rima's TY DVD-R 8x are made in JP or do i have to email and have them check?

[budz]

do all the Rima's TY DVD-R 8x are made in JP or do i have to email and have them check?

All of the TAIYO YUDEN DVD MEDIA that Rima.com sells is MADE IN JAPAN. End of story!

[shiet]

super8 ! thx ninja, off i go to stimulate the imports economy !

[Seeker47]

do all the Rima's TY DVD-R 8x are made in JP or do i have to email and have them check?

All of the TAIYO YUDEN DVD MEDIA that Rima.com sells is MADE IN JAPAN. End of story!

And I believe that Rima does not have the confusion of the multiple TY grades: all they carry is the TY "Premium" line. (Unless I'm mistaken.) When I've compared apples to apples, I think the normal Rima price beat out the SuperMedia sale price, once you factor in the shipping charges.

[Seeker47]

Seeker47,

The default setting for "Perform OPC Before Write" is "enabled" in ImgBurn 2.4.0.0, and "disabled" in version 2.4.1.0, so the default setting depends on which version you're using.

Thanks, but I'm using 2.4.1.0, so it must have inherited the 2.4.0.0 user settings somehow . . . .

[MilesAhead]

If you're having trouble with Verbatim media, your burner is probably dying.

So far the only "bad" verbatim I've seen are those I've purchased on sale at brick & mortar stores. I do notice
though that the "data life" variety which used to be more expensive, seems to be on sale on all the online
stores lately. I tried a 50 pack cake box and it seems fine. Just wonder why the price does contortions.

btw in my case I have 2 PCs and the newer one is only a year old. When get flaky media it's flaky in both, so
I don't think I've burned out the old writer yet.

I used to try to save a few bucks buying 16x DVD+R at @$.32 a disc, but after having very good luck for a while, I'm getting too many batches that say they support 16x burn but won't write over 12.1x.. so I'm shelling out the $.20 more and going with Verbatim or whatever is @$.50 a disc that works. It's only certain batches of certain brands that give me the 12x ceiling so again, I don't think it's the writer.. just the disc batch(if I dig out the same media from an older "good" batch it burns at 16x.)

I can appreciate that if people have good luck with a particular brand they want to stick with it or even tout it, but if it doesn't work well in the burners you have it's not much consolation that it works gang busters in the other guy's burners!!! It's whatever works in your writers and players that counts. When you switch hardware you'll prolly have to switch media also, so don't buy it by the pallet.

[lordsmurf]

What brand/model of burner? It might just be a sucky burner. Those exist.

I've used many burner in the past 7 years, and Verbatim/Mitsubishi never fails to perform UNLESS the burner itself is fubar.

[MilesAhead]

What brand/model of burner? It might just be a sucky burner. Those exist.

I've used many burner in the past 7 years, and Verbatim/Mitsubishi never fails to perform UNLESS the burner itself is fubar.

Where do you buy your discs?
Anything with a perfect track record I have to get in on it.
All I know is, don't buy 'em for $25/100 from the Weekly Ad deal.

[Billf2099]

I agree with Lord Smurf on this one. I recently purchased two 100 packs of Verbatim, one +R, the other -R. Burns from both of them have been flawless. They are MIT disks. As for burning speed it really depends on your burner and what its hooked to. If your burner does not have the instructions for burning faster on the media it won't. If your harddrive can't keep up with it, it won't burn fast either. The only time I had trouble with verbatims, it was the burner. One new burner later, problem gone.
I never saw a difference between 100 packs and 50 packs either. 50's were usually the way I went, but the price on these was pretty good.
I learned my lesson on crap media early. Never buy it.

[budz]

I have many dvd burners that I use and most of the flaky VERBATIMS came from the 100 pack spindles. It's not the burner that is the problem, it's the VERBATIM's discs since they now outsource to PRODISC & CMC. When I have a dvd burner that can burn up to 16x - 18x speed but the VERBATIM disc is only able to burn at 4x speed when I have it set to burn at 8x or 12x that tells me the disc is flaky. It's not all of the 100 discs that do this but I've run into more than a few especially the DVD-R media.

Check out Cdfreaks.com regarding VERBATIM 100 pack spindles and also how to identify which discs are actually "MIT". You'll have to look at the serial numbers on the discs which will indicate if you have PRODISC or CMC manufactured discs. :wink: