Why don't people use Macs?

[serega]

Way too addicted to right clicking..

I did not have Mac before but right clicking works on my IMac with either mighty mouse or any other one. Same way as on PC. What I like Mac is to browse internet for a less chance to get virus.

[ffooky]

Personally, I'd like to see them put more pressure on Microsoft at the low end. There needs to be a home personal computer entry solution below the MacMini and iMac.

A company (and customers) that views itself as the Mercedes, Ferrari or whatever you prefer of the PC world has no interest in the low end. I think we'll have to look to something like pre-loaded Ubuntu to offer that market some sort of option to Windows.

The Mini is cute enough but it's really just the equivalent of Jobs hanging around schoolyards offering kids a cheap taste in the hope that they'll tire of its limitations and upgrade to something pricier. The real debate is around something referred to as an 'xMac', in other words something between the Mini and Pro which would offer some sort of upgradeability with regard to GPU in particular in order to cater to folks who want to boot into Windows for gaming but don't need/can't afford the capabilities of the Pro. The low end single processor Pro is the closest thing yet but it's very unlikely to happen. The usual reason given for this is that it would eat drastically into sales of the iMac and Apple's continued lack of interest in gamers.

Where Apple is most successful and even fairly competitive on price is the high-end notebooks and I think there'll continue to be greater focus on that and the various expensive iToys

It could even offer a stripped down OS X

We'll see old Nick in a woolly muffler turning up the central heating before that ever happens.

[aedipuss]

apple - mercedes or ferrari? i always thought they were the jessica simpson of the computer world, pretty but braindead.

as for safety, it is an illusion, safari is about to be banned as a browser at paypal for lack of safety features. and virus writers haven't bothered mac users only because there aren't enough of them to bother not because it's hard to hack a mac.

[Frobozz]

I've heard there are people who talk about Macs and PCs as if members of vying religions certain their's knows the One True God. But I've never met anyone who cares that I use a Mac and I've never cared that someone else uses a PC. As long as we can share files and communicate I'm fine. This is such a silly discussion, in my opinion, because what difference does it make to any of us what kind of computer and software someone else prefers to use?

[KeepItSimple]

Many people think the Macs are for the gays.

How dumb is that?

[Midzuki]

KeepItSimple wrote:

Midzuki wrote:

Many people think the Macs are for the gays.

How dumb is that?

Very dumb, naturally. Which of course cannot stop people from
spreading unrealistic statements such as "gay user interface" or
"the gayest operating system on Earth".

[handyguy]

Macs had the original GUI & Gates 'borrowed' it.

[Des]

Roughly speaking:

Xerox had it first, Jobs and Woz visited Xerox and said they would like to produce apps for the Xerox system, Xerox said-indulge. Amiga also was aware of Xerox's sytem and new Apple was working on something so they created their own. Then GEOS got in on it, then Microsoft got it.

So, it all starts with Xerox and their loose boundaries.

--dES

[aedipuss]

Macs had the original GUI & Gates 'borrowed' it.

not even close. look up gui in the wikipedia. there were several before apple "borrowed" their version from xerox, even a fairly nice one from d.r. on the pc.

[SCDVD]

ALL the "gay" websites are Windows-centric and not Mac-friendly at all

Just curious Orsetto, how is it that you know that? Spend much time there do you?

[orsetto]

...as for safety, it is an illusion, safari is about to be banned as a browser at paypal for lack of safety features. and virus writers haven't bothered mac users only because there aren't enough of them to bother not because it's hard to hack a mac.

"Safari is being banned because its lame?" My my. That's terrifying, because you know there's only something like TWELVE alternative browsers available for Macs, just like there is on Windows. Give me a break. Like Windows Internet Explorer hasn't been detested for years as the gateway to all thats evil in viruses and hackers? As soon as it was actually possible to dump Windows IE, many many firms did just that and switched to Firefox or other alternate Windows browsers. Ditto Mac users: most of them know Safari has been a nasty practical joke since the day it debuted, and it gets worse with every release. Like quite a few Windows users who deactivate IE the minute they get a new PC home, many Mac users pull the plug on Safari immediately.

And lets retire the "no one hacks Macs because there aren't enough of them to bother" comeback, huh? Its gibberish. Much as I think OSX is an overblown mess, it *does* have somewhat better security out of the box, not a lot, but enough to keep grandma safe. The fact that hackers are all twelve year old boys in Romania with machismo issues who want to target as many people as possible, so they sneer at and avoid Macs as "not worth the extra effort", is a GOOD thing for those who do use Macs! It doesn't matter a damn WHY there are so much less viruses and hacks on Macs, what matters is they're much less vulnerable or targeted, making them a good choice for those who can't be depended on to manage their antivirus software.

Arguing that Macs are safer only "because nobody uses them" is a backhanded way of changing the subject. Wow, 95% of the world uses Windows, we had no idea! Knock it off- even Helen Keller knows this, and she passed on decades ago. That's a non-answer. The fact remains Macs ARE safer, ask any Windows pro who pushes Macs on friends and relatives to keep them out of his hair. Or the companies who switch to Macs so they can use them as a shield wrapped around Windows VPN schemes. I loathe Steve Jobs, hate the whole "lifestyle" thing, and have major issues with the direction Apple's been taking for years now: but damn if the machines don't find some way to remain useful to me. Ditto Windows: I despise the same tendencies in Microsoft, but I'm not going back to an abacus or making Linux my full-time OS. I need Windows. Its good to have choices.

BTW, the other cheap shot, jeering the nimrods who clamor to be in the "Mac community"? Let's drop that one too. Because for every Mac zealot at Macworld there are TWENTY Windows geeks roaming the halls of ComicsCon dressed as Storm Troopers or Harry Potter. People want to be part of a group, and sometimes they go to extremes- especially if they're pandered to by creeps like Steve Jobs. Wake up: every computer user on every platform who has the slightest idea what to do when things go wrong, is considered a dork by the larger population. We all live in glass houses.

I get passionate about this because I'm platform-agnostic, I've alternated since 1988 using whatever was the best tool for me at the time. All have flaws, all are controlled by megolomaniacs who make some boneheaded decisions with bad long-term consequences. Having to listen to inane bickering, with Mac folks jeering Windows users and Windows fiends belittling Mac users and now Linux geeks throwing mud from the sidelines, is a total drag and mystifying waste of energy. Why don't people use Macs? Isn't it obvious? People use whatever they're first exposed to at work or by friends. Given the numbers, this is more likely to be Windows than anything else. You don't use Mac or Linux unless you have a specific reason, and if you do your reasons should be respected. Ditto anyone migrating in reverse to Windows: you must have reasons that have meaning to you, and I'll respect that. Even 5% of the user market is now a huge number- millions of people. There will always be niche platforms.

Everyone should occasionally take a deep breath, close their eyes, and think back to the early days of the PC. Apple CREATED the market with their Apple II: there would be no PC in every home today without Apple. Respect them for that at least. IBM had *zero* interest in entering the personal computer market, they only jumped in because they were afraid of Apple running away with the whole ball of wax. But they jumped in too late, imposing a ridiculous deadline on themselves, which allowed Bill Gates to hold them hostage with DOS. A week earlier or a week later, Gates would have been shown the door for his hubris. But on that ONE fateful day, IBM uncharacteristically agreed to let him hold the rights to the OS instead of buying it outright. That sowed the seeds of their own destruction: if you think Macs are overpriced, you should check out what IBM was gouging for early PCs. By letting Gates hold the OS, IBM opened the door to the clone market which undercut them by half and eventually pushed them out of the market they hoped to dominate. Soon, Apple "stole" Mac OS from Xerox, Gates "stole" Mac from Apple, and the incessant arguing between users commenced. Everyone's right, and everyone's wrong. OK? Back to work.

[orsetto]

ALL the "gay" websites are Windows-centric and not Mac-friendly at all

Just curious Orsetto, how is it that you know that? Spend much time there do you?

Charming! I was waiting for that jab, but wasn't expecting it from YOU. No, I don't frequent those sites, but I have done IT work for ad agencies and graphics houses and sportswear companies and all you hear there is gay staff complaining that "those" sites won't work with Macs, so they buy Windows for home use, then are shocked- just shocked- when they have 49 viruses and adware trojans crawling thru their nice new Windows laptops the next day. I've had enough requests to "fix" these Windows disasters to bristle every time some rube says "macs are gay": a dumb-ass obnoxious argument not fit for a nine year old to make.

Take another look at the new Windows Vista interface, then try and tell me the Mac is "gay" with a "straight" face.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I wrote one of my first long-ass posts on this very topic, hoping to bury it, but there's always another re-animator.

One person writing one epic that most people will only skim-read - if at all - ain't gonna have an impact on such a polarized group of people. Same with love, war, religion, politics etc.

[aedipuss]

apple folk tend to forget there were other more popular home pcs at the time of the apple II. both the trs-80 and commodore.

sorry i just can't see why anyone wanted to buy anything from a couple thieving con artists like jobs and woz. jobs' first product was a long distance phone call stealing device, woz stole all the chips to make the apple I from HP where he was working, jobs stole the atari employee bonus he got for woz's work from woz, woz stole the pong game code from atari, and the list goes on.....

it's not macs i detest but apple in general.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I just use what works as I know you all do!

Bravo! That's all that's needs to be said.

[SCDVD]

One person writing one epic that most people will only skim-read - if at all - ain't gonna have an impact on such a polarized group of people.

When I see someone writing an "epic" on something like this, I realize that it's the rant of someone who is obsessed. I appreciation the humor and wit of the short and sweet posts even if they are jabs that I don't agree with. A lot of this stuff is tongue in cheek anyway. But when I see those who need to write epistles, I realize there is something else going on. I think most people react the same way - "Whoh, this person has a problem."

[mhar4]

People never seem to tire of this issue.

Having used Macs and PCs, I do prefer Macs, and I really like the thorough integration of operating system and the bundled applications. And I like the way it doesn't try to do everything for you, like Windows.

Anyhow, choice is good and competition drives improvements and computers are one of the best examples of that kind of Darwinian econo-social selection.

[TBoneit]

When Macs have problems where do they go for service? Here in Central NJ service for PCs is easy to find.

Why I Use Windows Boxes? Price and I like to be able to change things easily. I'm always changing things. All my software would need to either be changed or I'd be running XP on the MAC, so why change?

I've ben Assembling/using Intel based PCs since the days of DOS2 where I ran a Turbo PC clone with two floppies. Then Added a 20Megabyte Seagate hard disc drive. Then upgraded to a 80286, then a 386, then a 486, then a Pentium 100Mhz, then later a PII, then Amd 700Mhz and so on with a decent length stop at 3Ghz P4 and then AMD4200 dual core. Currently I'm running a Q6600 Quad.

OSes over the years Dos2 through Dos6 and DrDos, Windows 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP and XP MCE. The computer I'm using here at work dual boots XP Pro and Vista Ultimate.

And yes I still use DOS commands in XP and DOS programs on a regular basis. FX, PKUNZIP for DOS and Ghost 2003 for example.

[web_maven]

Like others have said, SOFTWARE, and most utilities are Free.

As for Hacking you’re living in a dream world! They just had a contest, MacBook Air (Latest OS version), Vista, and Lynx. I believe the title of the story was "Gone in 2 minutes” The MAC was hacked first. Here is the link to the story.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/27/Gone-in-2-minutes-Mac-gets-hacked-first-in-contest_1.html

Hackers really don't care about the MAC (mainly because big business uses PC and that’s what they want, not grandma’s email & pictures on her iMac). But of all the hacker decided to attack MAC believe me MACs will have the same issues as PCs.

Also I have invested in software that even if I wanted to move to a MAC I don't want to re-invest in the software. Come down off the high horse and relax, it's just a computer that lets you do work. If you can get the job done with a MAC, PC, etc... Who cares and why should you. It's capitalism at its best.

[Shocker Milwaukee]

One of the reasons people don't use Macs is that they tire of the smugness of Mac users and the whole superior attitude so many of their users have.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Having used Macs and PCs, I do prefer Macs, and I really like the thorough integration of operating system and the bundled applications. And I like the way it doesn't try to do everything for you, like Windows.

That's something of an oxymoron, surely.

Everything is bundled yet it doesn't try to do it all?

The irony is sweet - one of the biggest complaints of Windows - and the subject of civil litigation against Microsoft - is the very bundling of their own stuff....

[terryj]

...relax, it's just a computer that lets you do work. If you can get the job done with a MAC, PC, etc... Who cares and why should you? It's capitalism at its best.

[disturbed1]

[quote="orsetto"]

.
so they sneer at and avoid Macs as "not worth the extra effort",

what matters is they're much less vulnerable

The fact remains Macs ARE safer,

Wasn't the Mac the first to go down in the pwn2own competition? Something like 30 seconds to hack the Mac? With the hacker siting that no real skill was involved because it was so easy?

With Vista holding out to the last day, and comments about how difficult Vista actually was to hack? No one really bothered with the Linux machine, not because it was difficult, but because they just weren't interested.

Saying Mac is more secure than Windows, is like saying Linux is more secure than Windows. It just isn't so. In the hands of a competent system admin, each system is secure. In the hands of stupid users all are just as insecure.

Security through obscurity is not a substitute for security by design.

[videopoo]

5. Apple never has and probably never will be as powerful at video as a Windows machine is. It lacks hardware options, software option, and workflow conveniences. FCP and DVDSP are great tools, but that's really all that exists, in a limited DV workflow (excluding the very recent re-emergence of Adobe CS3 suite for OS X -- which is ONLY possible because OS X now runs on an Intel CPU). Professional videos are largely created in Windows-NT-based environments (NT4, 2000, XP).

Not really true. FCP is becoming the leading editing tool in most professional markets. High end graphics work is another story. I agree that PCs are more powerful for editing and graphics but there are 2 tools you need to know in the world of professional editing - Avid and FCP.

[edDV]

5. Apple never has and probably never will be as powerful at video as a Windows machine is. It lacks hardware options, software option, and workflow conveniences. FCP and DVDSP are great tools, but that's really all that exists, in a limited DV workflow (excluding the very recent re-emergence of Adobe CS3 suite for OS X -- which is ONLY possible because OS X now runs on an Intel CPU). Professional videos are largely created in Windows-NT-based environments (NT4, 2000, XP).

Not really true. FCP is becoming the leading editing tool in most professional markets. High end graphics work is another story. I agree that PCs are more powerful for editing and graphics but there are 2 tools you need to know in the world of professional editing - Avid and FCP.

Avid is mostly on the dual Xeon Windows workstations these days. Apple support was down to certain versions of Media Composer. The high end Symphony Nitris compositing systems remain PC (XP Pro) only. Until CS3, Adobe Premiere Pro was Windows only along with Edius, Vegas, MediaStudio and most newsroom edit packages. FCP is popular for certain types of DV/HDV editing and when equipped for uncomporessed SDI i/o but is far from the unit sales leader. Apple's switch to Intel made it easier for AVID and Adobe to continue support for the Mac.

By taking FCP support fully in house, Apple could support the pro post segment with a standardized product and help certify freelance editors to various levels. This works well in a production house environment.

The News editing world (e.g. Avid NewsCutter, Grass NewsEdit) is mosly PC with some Mac edit islands.

[Des]

Just saw this on Yahoo news and thought it might fit this thread some. Then again maybe it needs it's own, I'll let the moderators decide:

Observers Fear Mac Cloner May Not be Legitimate
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080417/bs_nf/59339

--dES

[orsetto]

One person writing one epic that most people will only skim-read - if at all - ain't gonna have an impact on such a polarized group of people.

When I see someone writing an "epic" on something like this, I realize that it's the rant of someone who is obsessed. I appreciation the humor and wit of the short and sweet posts even if they are jabs that I don't agree with. A lot of this stuff is tongue in cheek anyway. But when I see those who need to write epistles, I realize there is something else going on. I think most people react the same way - "Whoh, this person has a problem."

Then there are those of us who don't know too many tech-savvy people face-to-face, so when we get triggered by hot-button topics we tend to write paragraphs cuz its our one shot that month at communicating such a thought to a group that might be interested for five minutes in what we had to say. Maybe even thats an illusion, and as you say most people skim, and minds are pretty well fixed on some points anyway, still its nice to think even one distant person might consider your thoughts for just a minute. As far as brevity, I've said many times I'm amazed by the capability 90% of you show for condensing your thoughts and being funny in the bargain. My hat's off to you, I haven't mastered that trick yet: this is the only forum I've ever participated in and at that only started four months ago. Excuse my encyclopedias: the novelty of interacting with so many brains on the same wavelength hasn't worn off on me yet.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Very cool.

You do seem to be enjoying yourself and bringing out the be(a)st in people.

[oldandinthe way]

Its said that Harry Truman decided to drop the A-bomb on Japan because the Japanese would never have accepted the fact they lost the war and surrendered. In fact we had to drop two bombs.

Mac fanboys have a lot in common with the Japanese but no one has dropped a bomb.

Its over.

[PuzZLeR]

Its said that Harry Truman decided to drop the A-bomb on Japan because the Japanese would never have accepted the fact they lost the war and surrendered. In fact we had to drop two bombs.

Mac fanboys have a lot in common with the Japanese but no one has dropped a bomb.

Its over.

One fundamental difference here.

Unlike Japan's Kantaro Suzuki/Hirohito the Mac fanboy's leader/president/emperor Steve Jobs is not going to wait to be incinerated first, regardless of whether or not his "soldiers" may still be "fighting on".

There will be no bomb. Jobs surrendered already behind the scenes. Why not? His (new) Nation will grow 10x more this way.