No Subsciption-free DVR + DVD-Recorder Combo in USA???

[proprietor]

I can't thank orsetto enough. That posting summarizes the whole situation.
Let me tell you what makes me feel uncomfortable with that picture.

Let's say your refrigerator has an ice maker. Can you imagine the manufacturer charging you money each time you make ice?
This is not any different than that. Another example, let's say you're a reporter with a voice recorder made by Sony.
Would you pay $12.99 to Sony for each recording you made for your interviews?

The so called 'DVR service fee' seems nothing but a rip-off to me.
I told you about the cost of a very similar device and it's a one-time cost.
We're forced to pay for a virtual, even none-existing service.
I would be more comfortable and would be more than happy to pay $6 or $10 more
for my cable service under its regular fee but paying that amount for a fake
service makes me feel like a fool, and I am not buying it.

I don't believe that providing a 2-week schedule or a 1-month schedule would cost the dish or cable providers $6 per month per subscriber. orsetto explained the gap here and that is the difference between the USA and the rest of the world, and providers are making a huge profit from it.

As orsetto (and usually_quiet) said, it seems like it's our (the viewer or the subscriber) choice to have that kind of one-touch service.
However, the cost is unreasonable, especially when you know how the things work.

What about an alternative setup. I mean, would you buy another set top box and connect it in between your TV and your receiver (provider's set top box) if you'd know that you can pause, rewind and record whenever you want?
I know that it's hard to integrate a DVR with the provider's 'box' and its schedule and everything but it 'is' possible.

[usually_quiet]

Yes, I know of a another device for which monthly service fees are the norm, and without the service, the device itself is useless, but almost everybody has one. Many people actually pay more than one monthly fee to have various services, and pay extra for each use sometimes. It's called the telephone. When I was a child, my family had to rent the telephone as well as pay for service, since buying a telephone was impossible. Now nearly everbody owns a phone, but we all still pay for service. ...or in the case of cell phones, pay for service and they may throw in a phone free of charge.

Similarly, most people don't see paying the cable/satellite provider a montly fee for a DVR as bad deal either, given the convenience it provides. Plus, if the DVR needs repair, they just exchange it for another one, in person or (in some cases) by mail. People who want to record TV and have the means to pay for a DVR but object to the small monthly fee would indeed fall into the category of crank or miser in many people's minds.

No-fee third party set-top recording devices are only a viable product for over-the-air use. If an inexpensive device that would entirely replace the DVRs from TiVo and paid TV services was feasible and the market here was large enough to support them, we would already have them from all major and minor consumer electronics makers.

The prevalence of encrypted digital signals and the lack of free and accurate guide service are expensive hurdles to overcome. Cablecos are required to provide CableCARDs on request at a reasonable monthly fee, but adding support for them in a 3rd party device is expensive, and CableCARD devices must be certified by Cable Labs. IPTV and satellite providers are exempt from the requirement to provide something similar to a CableCARD.

Using third party device in conjunction with a provider's set-top box to record TV isn't terribly convenient, since the provider's set-top boxes only have one tuner. I well aware of this since I'm currently using a DVD recorder with my cable box. If I want to watch one digital cable-only channel and record another, too bad for me. If I want to record programs on different digital cable-only channels while I'm away, I can't do that either, because the STB I have won't change the channel by itself. People who are using an IPTV, cableco or satco provided DVR with 2 or more tuners will not happily give it up to go back to what I am doing. If analog component ouputs are eliminated from HD cable boxes in favor of HDMI only, which is likely to happen someday, HDCP will prevent recording HD output from a set-top box using another device.

[proprietor]

OMG! Phone, the phone!
You are RIGHT again.

You know, I have a home phone too, I mean a landline phone. And I pay $29 per month and I never touch that. It's there as a backup unit, just in case the cell phones fail to operate and if I need to make an emergency call.
Well, it's my choice, and I'm willing to pay for it, as for those who pay for the DVR service as you said.
What is worse than those is that we need to pay for minute when it comes to phone. Let me clarify. Most of my conversation last less than a minute. Sometimes only a few seconds, but I'm being charged for the full 1 minute. If my conversation is 1 minute and 1 second, they charge me for 2 minutes. Not only me, all of us. And not only in the US, almost everywhere in the world. But there are some clever consumers or let's say not as stupid as we're. They protested this situation and now, they're not being charged for the full minute, but for the increments of each 6 seconds. There are even better ones, they're being charged per second. Imagine how much the US consumers would save if they were being charged for only what they use.

Anyway, I think, in the end. I agree with what you said. I mean I agree with all your explanations. Even if somebody else questioned this DVR service before, I think they ended up with your conclusions, and agreed to pay for it. Especially when they checked the market and saw the limitations of the alternative devices and their high costs. I see that the Canadian customers are luckier than we're

On the other hand, there is profit in what I said. I mean, those big guys would still build and sell low-cost DVRs but what they're getting now, is way too much than the one-time low-cost device. They 'can get no satisfaction'.

I already connected one of my PC's to my home theater system, and will go from there.

P.S. I bought a Panasonic TV which has access to Youtube but when you make a search, it doesn't show you what you could find with the same search if you do it online, on a PC.
I think those kind of TVs and some other 'internet-ready' devices will never show you some content, even though it is not adult or something. That's why, I chose to go with my PC.

Thanks to you all for the contributions and for your time.

[usually_quiet]

I see that the Canadian customers are luckier than we're

I'm not sure Canadians are better off than U.S. residents when it comes to DVRs. Although some cable providers (not all) will sell one that works within their system, they are not cheap to buy new, and if one breaks after the warranty expires, it's the customer's problem.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6026669&CatId=364
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6044659&CatId=364
http://shopping.canoe.ca/shop/product--productId_10957974.html

Canadians don't have the option of using a PC Digital Cable Tuner, TiVo or Moxi for digital cable because CableCARDs are not available. Clear QAM tuners are of no use because cable providers are allowed to encrypt everything. Also, since they are moving to digital for over-the-air this year, the Canadians do not currently have a better selection of DVD recorders available (with or without an HDD) than we do. Hardly anybody is making them with ATSC tuners for either market.

[oldfart13]

This is what has been added to the TV wars in my area:

http://tbaytel.net/residential/digitaltv/

I have had a look at the tuner and you should be able to record from the component outs to a Hauppaugge or Avery device or card IF the programming has no restrictions. I don't have this installed yet so I don't know. I have friends who have them but no way of recording the HD programming. The main unit will also allow recordings to an external HDD once that is implemented but knowing these devices from having satellite TV, it will probably be heavily encrypted making it impossible to pull the programming off the drive. Again, no easy way out if you want to archive High Definition programming...

[jagabo]

Yes, I know of a another device for which monthly service fees are the norm... It's called the telephone.

We no longer pay a monthly fee for the telephone -- we use an Ooma (IP telephony, one time purchase). With Netflix (subscription, of course, but much less than cable), Hulu, and a few other internet sources we're close to cutting off the cable TV subscription too. I know. We're no the norm.