Import subtitles from a commercial DVD into Adobe Premiere Elements?

[haggis999]

I am trying to creating some edited highlights of an opera DVD recording. This is just a normal off the shelf commercial DVD. The opera is sung in German and the DVD offers a choice of subtitles in English and some other languages. I need advice on how best to handle the subtitles.

I want to use Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0 (APE3) as my primary video editing tool. I'm familiar with this software and wish to use its facilities to create my own opening and closing titles, etc. My normal process for this sort of thing has been to use DVDShrink to extract the VOB files, etc, from the DVD, followed by resaving as MPG files using VideoReDo (a process that I have found useful in fixing audio sync issues with the VOBs). I then use VirtualDubMod to save the MPGs as AVIs, which is the ideal format for editing in APE3.

The problem with this process is that it completely strips out the subtitles. In the past, I have simply recreated them from scratch in APE3 but this is rather laborious and I would love to find a way to extract the English subtitles from the original DVD in a manner that permits subsequent editing in APE3. If editability in APE3 is an impossibility, then I would at least like to find the best way to preserve the original English subtitles in the AVIs I import into APE3 (I don't need any other language).

I've used SUPER to extract the subtitles as a SUP file but have no idea how I can exploit this in APE3. Any guidance on the most appropriate tools to achieve my objective would be much appreciated.

David

[Baldrick]

Can you import any text subtitle formats in premiere elements? If so then can you use subrip or DVDSubEdit to rip dvd subtitles to text (click on the tools for guides).

If not then I would probably convert the dvd/vob to avi divx/xvid(using high bitrate) with permanent subtitles using fairuse wizard or autogk. You could also add permanent subtitles using virtualdub with the vsfilter plugin.

[haggis999]

Baldrick,
Thanks for your rapid response. I will check out your very helpful suggestions tomorrow...

David

[haggis999]

I would probably convert the dvd/vob to avi divx/xvid ....

My knowledge of video technology is still very limited. How do the divx or xvid codecs you mention compare with the Panasonic DV codec I was advised to use with VirtualDubMod for creating AVIs from the MPGs derived from my DVD?

Note that my objective is to maintain maximum quality throughout my editing process. A quick look at FairUse Wizard suggests that it is normally used to recompress video data to fit on a new DVD. In contrast, I want to avoid any recompression until the final stage of my process when I burn my edited video using APE3. Please clarify .....

[guns1inger]

If you seriously don't want to lose an quality then you should get the Mainconcept mpeg-2 editing plugin for elements. This will allow you to edit the mpeg-2 video from the DVD without any intermediate conversion. If you must convert, go and buy yourself a large USB-2 HDD, and use a lossless codec like huffyuv or lagarith until you have finished editing.

[haggis999]

I first fooled around with DVD editing a year ago and have not touched the subject again until last week (I give annual talks to a classical music society). During those initial sessions a year ago, I evaluated the MainConcept MPEG plugin for APE but decided not to buy it - for reasons I now totally forget! Since I have failed to find archived copies of year-old discussions on the Adobe Premiere Elements Forum, I have been unable to remind myself of the lengthy online debates I had on that subject. While I forget the reasons why, the bottom line was that it seemed to serve no practical purpose in my situation. It added cost and complexity to my process without improving quality. I achieved video quality in my compilation DVD that was very similar to that of the original DVD without using the MainConcept plugin. My only problem was the need to recreate the original subtitles from scratch.

What conversion software (preferably free) allows the use of Huffyuv or Lagarith codecs?

[Baldrick]

I think you can use huffyuv in Fairuse wizard also, click on options and under preferences choose Codec settings and ffWFV and click on Codec options and choose huffyuv. I will test this on a DVD...and maybe make a short guide.

Or else use virtualdubmpeg2 togther with vsfilter to add subtitles and save as huffyuv avi.

[Baldrick]

Fairuse wizard with huffyuv worked fine. I made very short and tiny test clip with huffyuv,mp3(you can also keep ac3 audio) and permanent subtitles that you could try download and import in premiere,

seinfeld.session-05.avi

and a DV sample using same method(be sure to use 720x576 or 720x480 sizes),

seinfeld2.session-01.avi

[haggis999]

The ffWFV radio button is greyed out in my copy of FairUse Wizard 2.8 LE (the free version). Are you using the paid-for full edition?

I didn't understand the distinction between your two Seinfeld clips. Only the second one works for me in RealPlayer (but proves the point that you have successfully incorporated the subtitles).

I'm still pretty clueless about all this. Under what circumstances do you use 720 x 576 versus 720 x 480? My original DVD is 16/9 anamorphic.

[Baldrick]

You must choose Codec settings in the Drop Down list where it says Standalone MPEG4 Player to be able to choose ffVWF. Use DV if you can't import huffyuv in Elements(huffyuv might work if you have installed ffdshow). And I would make it as 720x576(for PAL) and then resize and crop in adobe premiere elements instead.

And I made a guide, https://forum.videohelp.com/topic349073.html so you can see how I do it.

ANd yes you need the full version, http://download.videohelp.com/download/FU-Setup28.exe (don't install the toolbar advertisment).

[haggis999]

Baldrick - you are a star! If you ever visit Southampton in the UK I will buy you as many turnips and dead rats as you can eat...

Thanks for all your help. I will let you know in due course how I get on.

David

[haggis999]

I'm following the steps in your guide and I've got as far as selecting the resolution for TV Display Mode in FairUse Wizard, but neither 720x576 nor 720x480 are available. I'm using the DV codec and the only option containing 720 is 720x432. Is this a problem?

UPDATE: This is a problem. If I then move on to the next step I get an error message telling me that DV only supports either 720x576 or 720x480. Where might I be going wrong?

BTW, I don't really understand all the references to cropping. I do not wish to crop anything from the original DVD picture.

[haggis999]

Given my problem using the DV codec, I switched to the Huffyuv codec. This let me go ahead with the encoding process using the 720x432 resolution but as soon as it ended I got a 'The muxing operation failed' message.

Nothing is ever simple in the world of digital video ....

[Baldrick]

If you use DV you must use 720x480 or 720x576. Be sure that you are NOT cropping anything and try click on the use TV display modes and deselect show only prefered resolutions.

What audio did you use? mp3?

[haggis999]

I left everything in the 'Cropping Region' section untouched. The values displayed were: Left = 0, Right = 719, Top = 575, Bottom = 0. It didn't matter whether I chose DV or HuffyUV for ffVFW encoding; in both cases the maximum available output video size (with 'Show only preferred resolutions' unchecked) was only 720x432.

It's not really relevant to my video resolution issues, but I was using the AC3 audio setting. I also tried MP3 but still got 'The muxing operation failed' message.

[Baldrick]

Set the cropping to Right=720 and Top=576 (it means nothing) and did you click Use Tv display modes?

And if that still doesn't work I don't think fairuse wizard is the best method any longer...

[haggis999]

Those changes made no difference. With 'Use TV display mode' checked, the max available output resolution is still 720x432 (if I uncheck 'Use TV display mode', the max resolution drops to 720x384).

[Baldrick]

I have to test on another DVD and see how it works.

edit: Yep, on fletch(16:9) I can just choose 720x432. So I give up. Guide removed. . Back to Virtualdubmpeg2 with subtitle filter....or well You could try convert to mjpeg instead of huffyuv and dv.

[Baldrick]

I found another way that will work with 16:9 dvds to make DV, in the last video encoding step:
click Codec Settings
choose DV
click Input in the menu to the left
click Enable image processing
click Configure
select Resize
under New Size change to 720x576
OK
OK
Choose 720x384
Convert

And if you still get problems then you can give up using FairUse Wizard....

PAL DV 4:3 and 16:9 sample,

fletch.avi

fletch2.avi

[haggis999]

Well, we're getting closer! I now have an AVI file that I can open in APE3 that displays the original English subtitles. However, the picture seems somewhat shrunken in overall size, with large black borders all round (though the aspect ratio looks ok). Also, the audio is well out of sync.

[Baldrick]

Did you create a DV with the above settings? Be sure to check that you select 720x432 before you start conerting, fairuse wizard seems to change the resolution now and then.
If you play the avi with wmp is it also out of sync? I have not had any sync issues with the dvds I have tried with fairuse wizard.

[haggis999]

Did you create a DV with the above settings? Be sure to check that you select 720x432 before you start converting

I think you really mean 720x384, as per your previous instructions, which I followed exactly.

My AVI clip does not have any sync issues when played via WMP. Have you any idea how I could persuade APE3 to sync correctly?

[Baldrick]

Yep, I meant 720x384.

You can try convert the audio to wav, open the avi in virtualdub, select video->direct stream copy, audio->full processing and file->save as a new avi or just file->save as wav and use the wav as audio source in ape.

But I guess it's easier to use virtualdubmpeg2 for everything, open the vob/mpg, vsrip the subtitles to sub/idx, add the subtitles with the subrip virtualdub plugin. .

[haggis999]

I'm beginning to lose count of all the video-related shareware apps I have downloaded over the past week! I will now add VirtualDub-MPEG2, VSRip and SubRip to my list ....

[haggis999]

After downloading VirtualDub-MPEG2, VSRip and SubRip, I used VSRip to create an IDX file containing all the English subtitles from my DVD. However, I am a little confused about your reference to SubRip being a plugin for VirtualDub-MPEG2. I can't yet see any connection between these programs and the various help files don't seem to mention it either. Please clarify...

[Baldrick]

Oops, I meant vobsub and not subrip. ANd I have an old guide for virtualdubmod / virtualdubmpeg2 and adding subtitles, see https://forum.videohelp.com/topic272736.html

[haggis999]

VirtualDub-MPEG2 is now in the process of processing the first VOB file from my DVD and incorporating subtitles into a new AVI file. It's obviously going to take a long time! While it is running, I'm left wondering how I process the remaining VOBs. The subtitles for the complete DVD are in a single IDX file created by VSRip. Will VirtualDub-MPEG2 be able to work out which subtitles are associated with each of the VOBs?

[Baldrick]

Join the vobs to one using vobmerge or use vob2mpg and make one mpg.

[haggis999]

Before I address the question of merging VOBs, I have a bigger problem. My first AVI created via this new procedure has the correct subtitles in the correct places and audio sync is fine - but the video quality is very poor. Movement is rather jerky and there is a posterised look to the colour reproduction rather than smooth colour transitions.

[manono]

Hi-

No disrespect intended, but since you obviously don't know what you're doing maybe if you were to be more specific about your intentions we could point you to an easier solution. For example, from your first post:

I want to use Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0 (APE3) as my primary video editing tool. I'm familiar with this software and wish to use its facilities to create my own opening and closing titles, etc. My normal process for this sort of thing has been to use DVDShrink to extract the VOB files, etc, from the DVD, followed by resaving as MPG files using VideoReDo (a process that I have found useful in fixing audio sync issues with the VOBs). I then use VirtualDubMod to save the MPGs as AVIs, which is the ideal format for editing in APE3.

Now, if all you want to do is, 1), add subtitles to the DVD, and 2), add in an opening and closing video, then this can easily be done without reencoding anything. All that has to be done is to demux, add in the subs, remux and add it back into the original DVD, followed then by adding in your opening and closing videos.

The advantages of doing it this way include video with the original untouched quality, selectable subs instead of a degraded reencoded video with embedded subs, menus and anything else you might want to keep from the original DVD, synched audio without having to jump through hoops to fix it, and a faster, more streamlined, and elegant workflow. If that's fine with you, then we'll be happy to explain the process. It's fairly simple, although you'll have to add some more (free) programs to your computer.

Even if you then wish to go on and edit the DVD in other ways, you'll at least be starting with a DVD of original quality with subs. And if all you want to do then is cut out portions, other programs (VobBlanker, for example) can do that without dismantling the DVD again.