Bitrate issues

[sileramam]

I'm having a serious issue with the latest version of TMPGEnc and need some advice.

Until recently I had been using version 1.5’s editor/burner quite happily, but because I recently started having some burning issues I was beginning to wander if the program was at fault, so I downloaded the latest version of the program. Only problem is that I'm now having difficulties with it throwing up error messages telling me that the saved mpeg files I'm trying to author into DVD’s exceed the acceptable bitrates – something like 9900. That’s rubbish, because I know I recorded them at about 4,000 – Everything I record is always somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000. Anything less and I usually go to two disks to try and maintain quality. I’ve used the same program that came with my TV card (MSIPVS) for the last few years to stream in the material and save it in Mpeg form, and I’ve never had a problem popping up version 1.5 to edit the material and burn it to DVD. I used to go the AVI route with tweaking in TMPGE’s encoder, but found it so time consuming that I just preferred going straight to mpeg and right over to the editor for burning.

I thought the problem with the latest version is it might have been like 1.5, that used to spit out a non-conform error message that you could ignore, but when I tried burning a couple of test disks they only got about a third of the way in and spat out error messages.

To top it all off, it now looks like it’s my DVD burner that’s been the issue all the time. With all the problems I’m having with this latest version, I almost wish I could go back to 1.5, but I stupidly didn’t check to see if I had it backed up elsewhere on a disk before deleting it. It was little bit clunky, and the burner used to be sensitive as hell to any other activity and would bug out mid-burn on occasion, but at least it all worked!

Can anyone give me some pointers here?

[bendixG15]

Only problem is that I'm now having difficulties with it throwing up error messages telling me that the saved mpeg files I'm trying to author into DVD’s exceed the acceptable bitrates – something like 9900.

Drop your mpeg file into GSpot and you'll get the bitrate.

[tinker]

As suggested, check your file with GSpot to see what is going on. As for burning software I would recommend using ImgBurn, very good for single or dual layer disc burning.

[sileramam]

Okay, now I'm dead confused.

I did as suggested and Gspot tells me that the sys. bitrate is 10080kbs VBR

Over on the right it gives a figure of kbps of 4189, which should be about right when the 192kbps of audio is taken into account. I don't know which figure applies.

If the sys. bitrate is the problem number, it doesn't make sense. I double checked the program I use for saving video and it is definitely set at 4,000kbps. I've literally done hundreds of DVD's with this program and it has never had a problem, The only time all this cropped up was when I switched to the latest version of TMPGE.

Furthermore, the resulting file size is correct. I always adjust bitrates when I'm recording to my computer to get as close as possible to maximizing the usage of the DVD, and the current MPEG2 file I have sitting on my desktop for a 2 hour movie I recorded off TV is just a tad over 4GB. That's dead on with what I've managed in the past. At 10000k I'd have a file that was closer to 10GB in size.

Are there any other figures from GSpot that I could provide that might give further clues? I'll give all the details below to see if you can glean anything from it. Note that the file says 4.56GB - but that's before some ads get edited out to bring it to around 4GB.

Size 4.56 GB (4,670 MB / 4,788,282 KB)

MPEG-2 Program steam <<{ 1 vid, 1 aud}

Sys Bitrate 10080 kb/s VBR

Codec - MPEG-1 Layer 2

Info 0xc0:48000Hz 192 kb/s tot, stereo

Video
MPEG2 Name MPEG-2

Codecs are installed

(A little black box to the right has 'I470' in it)

2 max 15 max, N=15, M=3 (100%)

Len 2:25:47 Frms 262, 143 kbps 4189 Qf 0.404

Pics/s 29.970 Frame/s 29.970

Prog NTSC

Pic 720 x 480 Seq. ext. 720 x 480 4:3

sar 1.500 (3:2) par o.889 (8:9) dar 1.333 (4:3)

[jman98]

sileramam - Here are some possibilities.

1) Capture cards use bit rate targets as "best try" values, which means that they may exceed them. This is usually just an issue for formats like SVCD. If you are setting a capture card to record between 4000 and 6000 Kbps, it shouldn't spike over 9000 Kpbs, but can I say with 100% certainty that it won't? Nope. I've never heard of your card, which means it probably was fairly cheap and I wouldn't bet on it sticking close to what you told it to do.
2) If you encode AVIs to DVD with TMPGenc, you should be aware that TMPGenc routinely ignores the max bit rate value you give it and quite happily exceeds that by a lot. If you set an avg. bit rate of 6000 but say that the maximum it can go to is 9000, I can promise you that TMPGenc will well exceed this 9000 value at some point in the encode. This kind of advice may also apply to #1. If you told your capture card to record with an avg. bit rate of 6000 but a max. of 9000, it probably is exceeding 9000 at some point.
3) The bit rate count you are seeing TMPGenc complain about is video+audio. If you are using PCM audio, that bit rate for that is something like 1400 and if your video has a maximum bit rate of 8800, using PCM audio will cause it to exceed the bit rate limits for DVD.

[sileramam]

Hi again,
You probably sent that post before you saw the latest one I sent in.

Yeah, I'm aware of that little trick that TMPGEenc pulls. I learnt fairly early that it can float a little higher than expected, so I habitually set my bit rates about 200 - 300 lower than my little chart tells for for any given length that I'm recording off TV. Never fails. For example, my bit rate chart tells me that a 120 minute film needs a total bit rate of 4853. I'll set it at 4500 to give me a comfortable buffer.

The card was a reasonably cheap one, but got good reviews, particuarly for the quality of the output. I have been thinking of upgrading to a decent Haupang, but am in no hurry. Like I said, the card has worked fine for me for the last couple of years.

[sileramam]

By the way, I used to do AVI in the beginning, but just found the time the whole conversion process took to take too long. Going straight to MPEG and over to the editing/burning process doesn't provide as great a result, but in tests I did I didn't find the difference to be that pronounced. For the time it saved, I've been happy to take the shorter route, though I have noticed since we got a HD LCD TV that the difference does show up more now.

[bendixG15]

...............tells me that the sys. bitrate is 10080kbs VBR............................

Over on the right it gives a figure of kbps of 4189

...........................

10080kbs - Gspot is telling you that the maximum bitrate allowed under the DVD spec is 10080. This number does not apply to your file, it info only.

The video bitrate is found on the right side in the video box.
You posted ....Over on the right it gives a figure of kbps of 4189

The audio bitrate is found on the lower left in the audio box.
You posted ...Info 0xc0:48000Hz 192 kb/s tot, stereo

So, if I am reading correctly the video bitrate is 4189kbps and the audio is 192 kbps. Add them up for total.

[TimA-C]

Try using DVD Patcher to change the Max Bitrate figure stored in the MPEG's file header (no re-encoding done) and see if DVD Author still complains. IF you really do have some major bitrate spikes then your stand-alone DVD player may have "issues" with the resulting DVD. You could also try Scanning your MPEG file in PVA Strumento as that will give you max, min, and average bitrates and also GOP sizes.