A proposal for Open Source HD-DVD

[hddvdrebel]

A modest proposal...

Preface:

I, like many others were seduced by the low prices on the HD-DVD players and the representations of Toshiba about their commitment to the format. I think that the purchasers of these players have a civil remedy, especially those who purchased players after the mid January 2008 price drop. Given the short time between the sudden price drop by Toshiba and Microsoft, and the abandoning of the format a few weeks later smells of potentially illegal dumping. If one looks back at the representations of Toshiba, and the HD-DVD movies in the pipeline from Universal, Paramount, and Warner (at least until the end of May), it appears that the price drop was a planned opportunity to unload a lot of players just before walking away. It appears to be ample grounds for a class action lawsuit that will probably prevail on some level. Toshiba cut their losses and walked away, they may want to cut their losses further and give away their abandoned format.

Proposal:

The owners of the HD-DVD format, and the HD-DVD technology itself transfer their patents to an open source group, such as those who run Linux, and make the technology open source. The advantage to the HD-DVD consumers is that instead of receiving some sort of discount coupon or a nominal sum out of the class action lawsuit, some 3-4 year from now after deductions for attorney fees, we HD-DVD consumers can jump start Hi Def as open source. The advantages are:

1. The content people can put out hi def disks without paying royalties. Independent film makers can release in HiDef at a fraction of the cost of Blu Ray. Even considering the victory of Blu ray, the number of releases is tiny, compared with standard DVD.
2. The manufacturers can produce HD-DVD players without respect to patents on the technology, so the competition will reduce the costs of the players.
3. The manufacturing process of disks are much simpler and less expensive that Blu Ray and without having to buy the license to manufacture, but rather would get a free license.
4. The new Open Source HD-DVD forum could still insure uniformity of disks and drives.
5. The lack of royalties will entice the production of HD-DVD writable drives and disks.
6. The format is already finished, so not further development is required.
7. The HD-DVD forum really has nothing to lose by abandoning the baby in exchange for a release of liability in a class action.
8. It might appeal to a sense of revenge on the part of the HD-DVD forum and on the part of the consumers who got screwed.
9. China is working on a higher capacity dvd for yet another format, they could pick up the open source HD-DVD for free.
10. When royalties don’t exist, the potential profit rises enough to justify the initial risk.
11. What the hell, it would be fun to tweak Sony’s nose.

The disadvantages are:

1. Sony and the Blu Ray group are already paying movie companies for exclusive rights, so they will try to stop any of the studios from releasing in the new open source HD-DVD
2. There will be hesitation of the public to buy into this format, however, Apple computer is a classic example of creating and holding a niche against Microsoft.
3. The proposed open source HD-DVD may totally fail, and the owners will truly have orphaned players and movies and no one will get their discount coupons or nominal checks from the class action lawsuit and the lawyers will lose out on their cut.
4. It would require some organizing to get this moving

THIS IS WORTH TALKING ABOUT

[rhegedus]

A class action lawsuit is a non-existant threat. It was a format war, someone had to lose.

No HD disk plants and no HD burners mean no methods of distribution on HD disk. If you want to play with DVD5 then go ahead.

With Toshibas backing withdrawn, the subsidies on HD players would go to. They'd end up being as expensive as Blu-Ray players meaning that no one would buy one. The only people you're catering to are the ones that already purchased HD-DVD players but didn't purchase enough disks to give the format any chance of winning. Not a solid investment.

Give it up!

[halsboss]

"A class action lawsuit is a non-existant threat. It was a format war, someone had to lose."

A nonsensical argument if ever there was one.

[jman98]

A class action lawsuit isn't a non-existant threat. Whether such a lawsuit would succeed or not is a completely different question. I doubt it would, but the burden of proof to be met just to go to court is not very high in the USA.

I like the idea of open sourcing HD DVD, but I doubt that Toshiba would be smart enough to go for it. However, I hope this gains some momentum. Have you tried posting this idea elsewhere, such as the forums on Doom9?
http://www.doom9.net

[disturbed1]

Not exactly sure what it is you want them to open source?

The software that runs on the Toshiba set top boxes? It is open source, and comes with a GPL license agreement, it runs a Linux Kernel.

The specifications to HD DVD. They are available for free http://www.dvdforum.org Includes the video format, all the way to disc structure.

The only thing that can not/will not be free/foss/gpl/what ever, is the actual logo and right to claim your product/software/application HD DVD. As the name and logo is copy written. Much in the way, you can use dvdauthor and DVDStyler to create a Video DVD, but you can not legally put the official DVD-Logo on your application. Same as the difference between using a licensed Dolby AC3 encoder vs. and A52 encoder. You can not legally sell a DVD with a DVD logo on it, unless you buy a license. You also can not sell a DVD with mpeg2 encoded video unless you pay patent rights to the correct holders. There are several different pricing levels.

Illegal price dumping? Not even close. A high quality upscaling SD DVD player can cost close to what I paid for my Toshiba ($99). Last I looked, a similar in quality Panasonic and Toshiba SD only player was $79. How about they make you pay retail price for those 5 free HD DVD discs you got?


The information for home brew HD DVD authoring is there, just needs some one to create the software to put the structure together. Good luck finding someone wanting to do that, considering HD DVD is dead. It would be like some one coming out with an application sweet to make laser discs, or 8 tracks. It just isn't needed, nor wanted by the mass majority.

Owning an HD A2 myself, I'd be tickled pink if there was a foss application to make HD DVDs. But I'm not holding my breath, nor will I pursue it all.

[Krispy Kritter]

I wouldn't expect there would be any lawsuit, at least there shouldn't be. Toshiba's product delivered everything that it promised. You can't fault or punish a company from discontinuing a product that is not profitable.

Aside from that, as noted above, what exactly do you want to opensource? You can't change the spec, or the discs won't play on the current hardware. There is already software available that can burn HD content onto DVD (although only SL and DL DVD media). The only thing left is lack of hardware and media production. Companies can still produce HD-DVD players if they so choose and they can also still manufacture HD-DVD media, but there isn't much incentive for them to do so. The market is so small that it wouldn't be profitable. You won't get the motion picture studios to support or further produce HD-DVD discs. They've had the opportunity all along to produce one or both and are basing their decision on negiations/allegencies with Sony as opposed to what the consumer actually wants (or at a mimimum giving the consumer a choice and seeing which format sold the best).

The best chance of HD-DVD hanging around, would be with PC support. Where you could then use the disc capacity for data storage and backup solutions as well as video. But again, this only benefits PC only use or those that already have HD-DVD players and want to transfer their home videos onto HD-DVD. Movie support is now Blu-Ray only and that won't change.

[rhegedus]

"A class action lawsuit is a non-existant threat. It was a format war, someone had to lose."

A nonsensical argument if ever there was one.

People can huff and puff as much as they want but the threat has to be realistic.

Let's see how this plays out shall we?

[halsboss]

"I wouldn't expect there would be any lawsuit, at least there shouldn't be. Toshiba's product delivered everything that it promised. You can't fault or punish a company from discontinuing a product that is not profitable. "

Was that the basis of the original proposition (dumping) ?

[adam]

I think that the purchasers of these players have a civil remedy, especially those who purchased players after the mid January 2008 price drop. Given the short time between the sudden price drop by Toshiba and Microsoft, and the abandoning of the format a few weeks later smells of potentially illegal dumping.

Unless you are talking about dumping environmental waste, there is no such cause of action. Maybe you are thinking about anti-dumping regulations but that is an antitrust issue. These laws apply to exporting of goods into another country where you sell them below "fair" cost (sell at a loss) just to damage the competition. There is nothing to prevent a company from selling all of their remaining inventory at reduced costs right before going out of business. In fact, there's even a specific name for that...its a going out of business sale. Likewise there is nothing preventing a business from discounting a product line that is being discontinued. It also has a name, a discontinued product sale. About the only laws that apply to these types of sales is that you have to actually be going out of business, or actually be discontinuing the product.

Now whether Toshiba discontinued their HD-DVD products or not, they can't be deceptive in their practices. There'd have to be some specific allegation though. Just selling their products at rock bottom prices to get rid of them before abandoning the format is not actionable.

There is actually a lawfirm trying to find something to sue Toshiba about over this...
http://www.girardgibbs.com/toshiba_hd_dvd.html