Dell or imac

[fairytale00]

Just as the titlte says, one of my friends is going to get a new desktop, and we are lucky to find a coupon from Dell and a sale from apple for the imac. Just don't know what to choose. Th Those imac look very nice, but she is afraid that they are not easy to upgrade, and with the same price maybe he can get something very decent in Dell. What's your opinion and reason please?

[guns1inger]

What does he want to do with it ?

Yes, the iMac (and all Macs) have limited upgrade options. Cheap Macs are a waste of money, as are cheap PC's of any brand, if they are too slow in a year to work with.

However, if the needs are modest (general web use, general office use), the iMac is a simple set and forget option. Good if your friend is not PC literate and happy to run it back to the Apple store if anything goes wrong with it.

If you want something that will grow over time to keep up - if your friend is a game player, for example - then get a PC. Not sure Dell is the best option (not a big fan, myself), but for long term flexibility you get much better bang for buck.

My 2 cents.

[Mariot]

Who is upgrading the computer these days? The new computers all have decent video cards, sound card, large disk and all ports you need. You can always stick an external USB drive if you need data storage. And by upgrading for new motherboard and newest fastest processor you will pay nearly same price as a new machine anyway.... It is very probable that buing Dell you will not ever upgrade it, if it goes slow after 2-3 years it would be probably far better to buy a new one.

iMacs are very decent and they have the benefit of running both MAC OSX and Windows, even on the same time using Fusion or Parallels. The OSX has some nifty programs included for video editing and DVD authoring...
I'd say go for iMac and install Windows on it as well.
My Dell at home was only pain - it came broken (firewire didn't work) they replaced the motherboard after which the audio stopped working. Now the power broke down. I think dell is really buying cheapo components so be aware.

[guns1inger]

Like I said - Dell wouldn't be my choice either. But it is still cheaper in the long run to upgrade with quality parts than to replace cheap (read low end) brand machines every 12 - 18 months. Certainly over this side of the world.

My problem with Apple computers in general is the price you pay for design. So long as you go into it willingly, understanding you will be paying a 25% premium, that is fine. But I see so many people buying the low end Mac Books thinking they are getting the equivalent to a $3000 Toshiba laptop for $1600 because it is Apple, but not realising that component for component, they are actually getting the equivalent of an $1100 HP, but in a pretty case. If nothing else, Appl's propaganda is good. But bang for buck ? Not convinced.

[jman98]

I have an iMac at work. I must warn you about some negatives that you may or may not care about.

1) The iMac has a "feature" (it's a bug really, but Apple would probably disagree with that) where if you have 1920x1080 video, the iMac ALWAYS tries to upscale it to fit 100% in the screen. The screen size is just barely bigger than 1920x1080, so it can actually upscale the video to fit. Since you cannot turn this "feature" off, there is no way at all to play 1080i/p video correctly on the iMac even though the hardware should be more than adequate for playback. If you try to play any 1080i/p video, it will constantly stutter.
2) Note that while it is possible, in theory, to run 64 bit Windows in a VMWare Fusion virtual machine, we found that in reality there is hardware weirdness about the iMac that makes 64 bit Windows have all kinds of problems, even though it should be supported according to VMWare. Our local Mac expert explained to me that the reality is that 64 bit Windows just doesn't work correctly on iMac. 32 bit Windows will work fine on the iMac for both Fusion and Parallels.

Finally, do note that Macs don't have the breadth of tools that Windows does and you usually do well on Macs to have 1 or 2 programs that can do something. If they don't work for you, you're stuck.

[Mariot]

Yeah the low end macs are expensive and not worth using. The higher end Macs are not that expensive compared to high end PCS. My last year Macbook pro cost same as my DELL XPS notebook and asame as my other LG W70 notebook. Both DELL and LG had alrready been in repair, with LG being there 3 times. DELL still has no audio and power adapter refuses to charge battery because "the computer cannot determine the type of adapter". But the warranty is over. It takes month for the repair to return the notebook - that certainly has some negative value on the price! The MacBook PRO has no issues at all (so far) so in my case the MAC Book PRO was cheaper than both DELL and LG. I put XP on the MACBOOK pro and have reliable XP machine with the bonus of running few MAC OS apps. Well most of the time I use OSX on it anyway - for browsing and remote desktop.
But I agree if money is objections, you can get better deal and better fit in PC world. My desktops are all PC (althrough sometimes I got so angry that I think I would throw them out of the window).

[TBoneit]

Mariot, Did you try another Dell power adaptor on that notebook? Note that I said Dell not universal.

[oldandinthe way]

In my opinion the decision is principally one of "mind set".

If your friend has used a PC with Windows in the past, the "simple, easy-to-use, intuitive" Mac will require significant unlearning of past behaviors. Many do master the prcess, some never do. In any case it is significant effort.

If your friend has not used any PC before, her social network should be a key part of the decision process. Newbies need help, even on the Mac. If her friends are Mac users - its the way to go.

If her friends are Windows users, go that way. All sorts of simple things PC users do, may appear more complex on the Mac because there is no one to recommend the equivalent tool on the Mac. Like whats the Mac equivalent to DVDShrink - her PC friends would not be able to reccomend. Or is there a MAC equivalent all in one Usener downloader like grabit. Or whats the Mac equivalent to Quickpar.

I would no more buy a Dell product than a Mac, but a Dell product which functions intermittantly in warranty will be promptly repaired, folks I know with failing Macs experience a greater runaround. Will a Dell fail more often than a MAC - I think a Dell will fail more often than an HP, Acer, Lenovo, Toshiba, Gateway or eMachines becaise of their parts procurement strategy - buy the cheapest available on the day of the purchase - so why not more opften than a Mac.

In the USA, a month to repair a product in warranty is not consistant with any reputable manufacturer, and not most people's Dell Experience.

If I were concerned principally with product support, I'd consider Lenovo. They use the exceptional IBM support organization. Strong support information on the website, software tools including diagnostics on their systems, knowledgeable techs on the telephone - right here in the USA. Fast parts shipment for self repair or expeditious depot repair.

[yoda313]

I agree with oldandintheway.

If your friend has always used a mac than stick with a mac if your used to it (though i'm NOT a mac fan by any means).

But if your friend is a PC user stick with pc.

I will say this PC'S generally have more upgrade paths than Mac. USB does help but pc's are a lot cheaper to upgrade.

[Mariot]

Mariot, Did you try another Dell power adaptor on that notebook? Note that I said Dell not universal.

I couldn't find the exact model on DELL support page so I tried to contact them and they never answerred. That did it for me.
I did try to buy one exactly like mine of ebay and had been duped. Guy took my money, never shiped anything. Resolution still pending after I filled with paypal the complain.

I got iGO after trying few universals as this was the only one having the fat connector for XPS, but it is only 90W so XPS complains that it needs 130W and I have to start the comp on batteries otherwise it will say it cannot boot with 90W adapter and shut down (same with the original coz it cannot determine its power at all). But at least the 90W charges the battery unlike the original one so I can boot the comp on batteries then plug the iGO. The only thing why I am using this sorry thing is the 1900x1200 screen I upgraded to. Otherwise it is heavy, has no sound after repair of firewire and complains about adapters. What one needs more?

I am 150% sure I will never buy any DELL ever.
Yeah Lenovo may be a good thing, but I never used it as they don't sell around where I live and I have enough ordering online after the DELL.

It kind of sucks that they sell you computer not working properly then let you wait for repair without giving you any replacement.

[RLT69]

Note that while it is possible, in theory, to run 64 bit Windows in a VMWare Fusion virtual machine, we found that in reality there is hardware weirdness about the iMac that makes 64 bit Windows have all kinds of problems, even though it should be supported according to VMWare. Our local Mac expert explained to me that the reality is that 64 bit Windows just doesn't work correctly on iMac. 32 bit Windows will work fine on the iMac for both Fusion and Parallels.

That's funny...because it's possible, in Theory, to run 64 bit Windows on a PC. Doesn't really work but in Theory you can....If you can't get it to run on a PC why the hell would you expect it run in a Virtual Environment on a Mac!

Other than using EFI instead of BIOS, the iMac is a PC. As long as VMware supports it, you can run Windows.

Christ I got OS 10.4 to run on my 64 bit PC in VMWare!

So trust me, if Vista 64 or XP 64 does not run the iMac, it's not the iMac that's the problem.

8)

[TBoneit]

Mariot, Did you try another Dell power adaptor on that notebook? Note that I said Dell not universal.

I couldn't find the exact model on DELL support page so I tried to contact them and they never answerred. That did it for me.
I did try to buy one exactly like mine of ebay and had been duped. Guy took my money, never shiped anything. Resolution still pending after I filled with paypal the complain.

I got iGO after trying few universals as this was the only one having the fat connector for XPS, but it is only 90W so XPS complains that it needs 130W and I have to start the comp on batteries otherwise it will say it cannot boot with 90W adapter and shut down (same with the original coz it cannot determine its power at all). But at least the 90W charges the battery unlike the original one so I can boot the comp on batteries then plug the iGO. The only thing why I am using this sorry thing is the 1900x1200 screen I upgraded to. Otherwise it is heavy, has no sound after repair of firewire and complains about adapters. What one needs more?

I am 150% sure I will never buy any DELL ever.
Yeah Lenovo may be a good thing, but I never used it as they don't sell around where I live and I have enough ordering online after the DELL.

It kind of sucks that they sell you computer not working properly then let you wait for repair without giving you any replacement.

Call 1-800-372-3355 for Dell parts. You end up giving them your Service tag from the bottom of your laptop, they verify you are the purchaser/owner and they'll sell you the proper adaptor. Also with Dell laptop daptors they are marked with family such as PA11 or PA12 for example. You should be able to replace a PA12 family with another PA12 family adaptor. That family will describe Voltage, Amperage, and Plug style at the laptop end. within a family they seem to interchange properly.

However Except for the fact that I hate wading through the IVR on the Dell phone system they have always been able to pull up the proper part by service tag number. We had one repair where the part was backordered over a month. However so far that is one time only.

[jman98]

That's funny...because it's possible, in Theory, to run 64 bit Windows on a PC. Doesn't really work but in Theory you can....If you can't get it to run on a PC why the hell would you expect it run in a Virtual Environment on a Mac!

Other than using EFI instead of BIOS, the iMac is a PC. As long as VMware supports it, you can run Windows.

Christ I got OS 10.4 to run on my 64 bit PC in VMWare!

So trust me, if Vista 64 or XP 64 does not run the iMac, it's not the iMac that's the problem.

8)

I didn't say it didn't run. I said it had problems. You've provided no personal experience to dispute my experience on the iMac. I simply wanted to point out that this MAY be a problem. If you and others choose to ignore my attempt to be helpful, you are free to do so.

I don't want to digress, but one thing that may help is that VMware's Fusion upgrade process is seriously broken. Installing the base release (1.0 I think) from an official install CD and upgrading on top of that has all kinds of problems. The only thing that worked for us is to install directly the latest and greatest release and that might fix the Fusion 64 bit Windows issues, but I did not test that.

[Mariot]

I'll try. I just kind of hate the idea of trying to be polite and not to scream at the poor Indian soul on the phone what junk they sold me (and it was at the time a special order for which I had to wait a month or so)

[fairytale00]

Well thanks all, that's very kind of you to respone my question, I have read through your posts. And I will let my friend read this also.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Who is upgrading the computer these days?

How about anyone who gives a crap about the amount of electronics getting dumped? Or those who realize you can take components from one and use them on another. Of course, that takes too long for some - better just trundle off to Best Buy instead.

It is very probable that buing Dell you will not ever upgrade it, if it goes slow after 2-3 years it would be probably far better to buy a new one.

Computers don't just go slow because of age. The most common reason is fragmentation - easily resolved. The other reason is running more demanding software which is a valid reason. But a 2-3 years lifespan I think is symptomatic of a couldn't care less attitude.

I'd say go for iMac and install Windows on it as well.

People who tout this perk piss me off. The implication is always that you just load Windows on it since you already have it.

To put Windows on any Mac you need the FULL RETAIL license. i.e., it isn't a freebie. You can't use your existing OEM version nor can you buy an OEM version with a mouse or some other qualifying hardware unless it is used with that hardware.

So - make the recommendation but also point out the cost associated with doing it.

My Dell at home was only pain - it came broken (firewire didn't work) they replaced the motherboard after which the audio stopped working. Now the power broke down. I think dell is really buying cheapo components so be aware.

I hate the Dell laptop I have had forced upon me as does my wife hers. Yes - Dell suck.

[pchan]

I would no more buy a Dell product than a Mac, but a Dell product which functions intermittantly in warranty will be promptly repaired, folks I know with failing Macs experience a greater runaround. Will a Dell fail more often than a MAC - I think a Dell will fail more often than an HP, Acer, Lenovo, Toshiba, Gateway or eMachines becaise of their parts procurement strategy - buy the cheapest available on the day of the purchase - so why not more opften than a Mac.

I have a DELL D620 at work and recently bought Acer Aspire 5920 laptop for personal use. After a month LCD monitor was darker(no display), had it sent to the service center and replace inverter module. Two week later, the LCD screen went out again and I sent to the service center the 2nd time. I was upset and ego deflated. The service technician told me that I was unlucky to get this set. How unfortunate ! I had to let them trouble shoot for several days. They found the problem finally. It was a faulty LCD flex cable.

I wouldn't rate Acer as better than DELL.

[Mariot]

When you are buying MAC you already paying 40% premium, so a cost of windows isn't that a big problem.
But You can in fact use OEM XP. There are few kinds of OEMs. There is the OEM CD locked to certain bios and there is Full OEM or OEM DSP that may be installed on any hardware. Most local shops can sell Full OEM with purchase of any hardware sometimes just a cable. The cost is about $50.