How about some RiData DVD+R DL discs...?

[JohnnyBob]

I've always used Verbatim DVD+R DL discs, but am put off by the switch from Singapore to the low quality India manufacturing of both the MKM001 and MKM003 media. Therefore I've decided to try viable(?) alternatives. I just found these RiData discs at newegg with an attractive price and at least some positive reviews, so have ordered a spindle of 25 to try. Time will tell. Anybody else?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132020&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL031308...L2A-_-17132020

[jman98]

I would trust "bad" Verbatim any day over "good" RiData.

I'm not going to get into more beating a dead horse arguments with you, but for the benefit of others, I have used the MII Verbatims and they are generally fine. They are slightly less good than MIS for sure, but there is no way I am going to buy RiData. Nero's CD/DVD Speed tool says that MII DL discs are very good, but the MIS do have much fewer errors. Still the MII errors are low compared to other brands.

If you post here that the RiData DL discs suck, am I allowed to say "I told you so"?

[JohnnyBob]

If you post here that the RiData DL discs suck, am I allowed to say "I told you so"?

Yes. And if they suck, I will certainly say so But I won't know for a couple of weeks, or so. The reviews at newegg are mixed, but fairly obviously they don't work as well with older drives. They're reported to work with Lite-On drives, LH20A1P or later. I just installed a DH20A4P, so am equipped to give them a fair tryout.

[SCDVD]

Just don't come back and tell us how many "burned OK". The ONE reason a person burns a disc is to be able to subsequently play it. You will have problems with RiData DL media, the least of which is how many bad burns that you have.

[oldandinthe way]

I too am interested in your results. If there is are drive/media pairs which generate good results an alternative to Verbatim for those drives would be a good thing.

[JohnnyBob]

Just don't come back and tell us how many "burned OK". The ONE reason a person burns a disc is to be able to subsequently play it. You will have problems with RiData DL media, the least of which is how many bad burns that you have.

It seems that there are some strong feelings about this issue... Of course, God willing and if the creeks don't rise, I will come back eventually and tell you how many burnt OK! I will probably also include some other details such as visual inspections, appearance, Nero CD-DVD Speed scans, etc. Naturally that also includes your own pet criterion, and one of mine too, playability on a standalone DVD player.

[SCDVD]

Naturally that also includes your own pet criterion, and one of mine too, playability on a standalone DVD player.

Playability is not an "also included" criteria. Playability is the ONLY reason that one burns a disc. This isn't an art deco project where one enjoys the rich color nuances of RiData purple dye or something - "Resembles the hue of a vintage Bordeaux -- blah, blah, blah." You burn it to play it - period.

[JohnnyBob]

Naturally that also includes your own pet criterion, and one of mine too, playability on a standalone DVD player.

Playability is not an "also included" criteria. Playability is the ONLY reason that one burns a disc. This isn't an art deco project where one enjoys the rich color nuances of RiData purple dye or something - "Resembles the hue of a vintage Bordeaux -- blah, blah, blah." You burn it to play it - period.

Well, to each his or her own. For me, playability is just one of many criteria that I consider. Of course it's an important one. I also have fun with these processes in other ways too, i.e. just watching the movie is only one of the pleasures I derive therefrom. This forum is also one of the fun processes involved, a place where we can learn new things and express ourselves fairly freely. Being somewhat autistic, I guess, I also enjoy reading ImgBurn's log file and burning stats while it's burning the disc, then scanning it and getting those beautiful graphs with Nero CD-DVD Speed. I also enjoy writing all of the technical data with a Sharpie onto a jewel case which will hold the finished product, updating my related Works databases, etc. It's just plain fun, all around, an excellent hobby for over-the-hill retirees like me. I really love it all. Cheerio...

[SCDVD]

JohnnyBob, I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't enjoy the entire process; many of us do. The only thing that I am trying to point out is that playability is the key end result. The reason that I mention this is that often times people report on their experience with a given media and only mention the number of good or bad burns. That alone doesn't say much about the media. If someone gets a "good burn" and it doesn't play, what good is it?

[JohnnyBob]

JohnnyBob, I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't enjoy the entire process; many of us do. The only thing that I am trying to point out is that playability is the key end result. The reason that I mention this is that often times people report on their experience with a given media and only mention the number of good or bad burns. That alone doesn't say much about the media. If someone gets a "good burn" and it doesn't play, what good is it?

Hmmm... I think I'll beg to differ a little with your logic there.

The number of good and bad burns is an important data to consider when evaluating a media. For example MKM001 MIS has given me 99%+ good burns, while the MII variety has given me 5-10% coasters. I've burned 100+ of both kinds under similar conditions, so I think it's statistically significant. It's not conclusive, but there have been many other similar reports. So MII discs are under a cloud of uncertainty, to say the least.

Most of us only play movies with one standalone DVD player, so that's all we care about. However playability in a single standalone DVD player is a very limited test, because there are of course hundreds of different models/brands of those. It might play OK in the one you have, but not in 90% of others. It's a good sign if it plays in your standalone DVD player, but not strongly indicative about overall quality/compatibility of the disc type.

These and other criteria of disc quality all need to be weighed in the balance.

[jman98]

It seems that there are some strong feelings about this issue... Of course, God willing and if the creeks don't rise, I will come back eventually and tell you how many burnt OK! I will probably also include some other details such as visual inspections, appearance, Nero CD-DVD Speed scans, etc. Naturally that also includes your own pet criterion, and one of mine too, playability on a standalone DVD player.

I will be interested in seeing this info, so please don't forget about us after you start using the discs.

[Noahtuck]

JohnnyBob, I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't enjoy the entire process; many of us do. The only thing that I am trying to point out is that playability is the key end result. The reason that I mention this is that often times people report on their experience with a given media and only mention the number of good or bad burns. That alone doesn't say much about the media. If someone gets a "good burn" and it doesn't play, what good is it?

Hmmm... I think I'll beg to differ a little with your logic there.

The number of good and bad burns is an important data to consider when evaluating a media.

I'm gonna have to lean towards SCDVD here a little bit...
A couple of years ago i bought some media that ended up having a fake media code, 25 or so burned flawlessly, after sending some out i started getting complaints, replaced them all & all the one's i got back & the ones i still had on hand that were burned, every single one around the same time when playing them, the video broke up like crazy!!
It was near the center of the disc so it was not an "outer edge" issue....

Media can burn perfectly, that does not mean it is not crap media 8)
and until you actually sit and watch every second of the video, you may not know until some time down the road, not to mention cheap, badly made, degrading media.

For instance, i have B5 backed up on Verbatim media, burned on 07/20/2003, just took out the first season at the start of this week, watched every disc & they play perfectly.

I have clear and present danger & Patriot Games backed up on Prodisc media. Burned 06/04/2005, now when i burned them they burned flawlessly, back then i used to scan media and if they did not scan good they would be redone on better media.
I have watched these backups several times, last week i took those both out to watch & both of them after about a year & from the first 5 minutes are now pixelating, breaking up & locking up, tried ripping them again to back up to better media & both of them lock up around 75% no matter what software i use.
I have saved BU's doing this but these are toast so i broke out my originals from their storage closet and re-ripped those.

Just some food for thought, flawless burns & good scan results mean nothing in the long run & yuo might not find out how crappy some media is until it's too late.

To save a couple of bucks, which really is not even an issue here seeing how much verbatim DL+R media goes for on sale, is crazy if you plan on using them for anything you care about.

And i have yet to try the DL+R verbatim's from india, but i have used the dvd-5 +R's and they seem perfectly okay to me so far, but time will tell 8)

[oldandinthe way]

Never forget that the media are not the only factor governing the quality of the burn.

The burner is an important part of the equation. Some manufacturer's burners generate inferior burns on quality media, and others equivalent burns on "crap" media. Scanning on the same burner is not a test of burn quality, nor is scanning on another drive. The consumer has no way of telling what the quality of his burn is or will be a year from now.

One the rare occaision I have problems playing a burned DVD, I can generally find one of my systems which will read and copy it.

[Noahtuck]

One the rare occaision I have problems playing a burned DVD, I can generally find one of my systems which will read and copy it.

3 diff. systems and 6 diff drives...... not happenin' 8)
and i keep my backups as if they were the originals clean and scratch free, it is definately a case of time degrading (self destructing) media.

MI theme music anyone

And there is no getting around the quality of Verbatim media from years ago, regardless of what drive was used, because i'm sure back in 2003 i was not as worried about what drive was best & what i could get for a good deal, it was not the time of $30.00 NEC's & Pioneers, ect.
& i know i have Verbatim dvdr's older than that because i was always a fan of verbatim cdr's for many moons before dvd burners were even a reality for $1500.00 a pop 8)
& went straight to verbatims when i bought my first dvd burner, i know i tried some other brands but verbatim has always been #1 on my list of choices.

[oldandinthe way]

Many of the best burners you could get in 2003 were not good enough. Just as for years the best CD-R media were not good enough.

Many of today's burners are not good enough to actually burn a wide variety of manufacturer's media.

And many of the disks burned on burners which were not good enough die. TY & Verbatim provide a margin of extra safety for these burners.

[lordsmurf]

"Burned okay" is simply an ignorant statement.

Playability/readability is the true factor that determines media quality. Burning is less than half the battle. Counting coasters is easy -- making the burn function is far more important. All stupid/idiotic "my disc degraded / rotted" myths aside. It burns or it doesn't -- then it plays well or it doesn't -- come back in 10 years if you want to whine about rot (that means the earliest adopters may start to cry in 2011).

Firmware doesn't mean a thing if the disc sucks. There are no magic burners. Your comments are definitely "old and in the way" -- misinformation in a sea of information. TY and Verbatim have no "margin of extra safety" -- they're simply made well. What you just said doesn't even make any sense.

Yeah, it's a mean post. But sometimes a reality check is necessary.

[Noahtuck]

All stupid/idiotic "my disc degraded / rotted" myths aside. It burns or it doesn't -- then it plays well or it doesn't

Really.....
Hmmm... when i burn a disc and it plays perfectly fine 10 times over a 2 year period, then after not being touched for a year and all of a sudden it wont play more than 5 minutes before starting to break up and pixelate, can't be ripped, ect. it surely did not degrade, it just decided one day to self destruct 8)

Everything degrades over time, but badly made dvdr media must be immune to this fact of life

[Rich86]

This thread started out talking about brands of double layer media other than verbatim - and I'm not interested in engaging in the discussion about Verbatim vs. all others, because I'm not interested in getting beaten up over it - but - for me - Verbatim is too expensive and therefore warrants some experimentation with other brands.

I've just started using a very small batch of "Playo" 8x DVD+R/DL Inkjet printable (these are actually Ricoh media) in my Benq 1655 burner. So far - all is well - burned with no problem - prints beautifully - plays back perfectly. I can't predict what will happen 3 or 4 years down the road - but I have had very few issues with playability of burned media and the few I did have a problem with showed up right away (a handful of Ritek 4x dvd-r media from one particular 50 stack), not after any appreciable time passed.

So, to the OP, check out Meritline.com for the media I am experimenting with if you want another brand to test with. 8)

[jman98]

This thread started out talking about brands of double layer media other than verbatim - and I'm not interested in engaging in the discussion about Verbatim vs. all others, because I'm not interested in getting beaten up over it - but - for me - Verbatim is too expensive and therefore warrants some experimentation with other brands.

You either care about quality or you don't. If Verbatim is "too expensive", fair enough, but if your cheaper discs are unplayable in 2-3 years, well, we warned you. We had a recent post here from a guy who pointed out that at one time he thought all DVDs were the same and then he found out a few years later that one particular brand he had been using was unplayable. It does happen, but not with Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden. If you don't care whether you can play your discs in a few more years, then why are you making them to begin with?

[SCDVD]

Guess what? At the end of the day, we don't care what kind of buzzard puke media that you use. While you are testing, why don't you smear a little butt butter onto a clear plastic disc and "test" that too? You have been warned; go ahead and do your play-apoo "testing"; it's your data, not ours.

[Rich86]

Ah yes - it sure doesn't take long for the nonsense to spew forth once someone doesn't sign up for the "only verbatim" media bandwagon. It's always good to interact with open-minded people . . .

[JimmyJoeBob]

Ah yes - it sure doesn't take long for the nonsense to spew forth once someone doesn't sign up for the "only verbatim" media bandwagon. It's always good to interact with open-minded people . . .

Is it not great to listen to all the BS especially from LS and others.
I find it amusing

[ROBERT BLACK]

I've always used Verbatim DVD+R DL discs, but am put off by the switch from Singapore to the low quality India manufacturing of both the MKM001 and MKM003 media. Therefore I've decided to try viable(?) alternatives. I just found these RiData discs at newegg with an attractive price and at least some positive reviews, so have ordered a spindle of 25 to try. Time will tell. Anybody else?

I usually stick to MIS Verbatim most of the time but I received a pack of Ritek D01s as a gift. They burned and played fine,scans were generally good in nero. I bought another 15 pack and I had one coaster. Weeks later no layer break or playback issues on two DVD players. I've even loaned a few discs out to friends expecting complaints with the layer break. No problems. I haven't bought any since, as I have a couple of spindles of Verbatim DL but taking the forum feedback into consideration I either had an exceptional batch or have a magic burner. Try them on a cautionary basis and make sure you make additional back ups of any pertinent data.

[lordsmurf]

Ah yes - it sure doesn't take long for the nonsense to spew forth once someone doesn't sign up for the "only verbatim" media bandwagon. It's always good to interact with open-minded people . . .

Is it not great to listen to all the BS especially from LS and others.
I find it amusing

The only BS here is people who ignore the fact that Verbatim is the ONLY DL MEDIA that is reliable right now. I hate bandwagons, I'm not closed minded -- but I also exist in the real world. I don't stick my head up my ass just because I don't hear what I want to hear.

Non-Verbatim DL media is shit. Sorry, but that's just how things are.

If you want to use something else, good for you. I just hope you're not forcing your stupidity onto other people (customers, friends, family, etc). Not one week goes by that I don't hear about a friend, family or business giving out garbage for media. SHAMEFUL!

[OneSickPup]

The only BS here is people who ignore the fact that Verbatim is the ONLY DL MEDIA that is reliable right now. ...................................
Non-Verbatim DL media is shit. Sorry, but that's just how things are.......................

Lordsmurf and I don't always agree. But, his two comments I quoted above are just a SAD and CURRENT REALITY. Keep in mind that batch variability is a common media issue that is even worse as it relates to DL MEDIA. Everytime I've ever seen evidence to support something other than MKM 001 or MKM 003 as being viable - the next batch blew the theory completely out of the water. By all means keep searching - just don't set your expectations too high.

[JohnnyBob]

My spindle of 25 Ritek discs arrived yesterday and their ID is Ritek-S04-066 media made in Taiwan. I had a new 8.1 GB movie available to backup, so gave them a try right away...

The top disc on the spindle had some very obvious scratch/scuff marks on the recording surface at the outer edge, extending inwards by 4 millimeters. The first 1 millimeter is unused, so that means it extended into the recording area by 3 millimeters. In other words, it was unlikely that the disc could be burnt to full 8.5 GB capacity. I could have waited for a smaller burn, but gave it a try anyway with my Lite-On DH20A4P at 4x burning speed, setting the layer break at the 50% point. It burnt OK with ImgBurn, but then would not verify, stopping at the 49%-verified position. A visual inspection showed that the burn extended into the damaged area by 1 millimeter, so that was the obvious reason.

I reburnt the same movie with the next disc on the Ritek spindle, which had no obvious viewable defects on the recording surface. Same drive and same conditions. It burnt and verified OK. A subsequent quality scan with Nero CD-DVD Speed is attached FYI. It's not pretty but I've seen a lot worse which were still playable. It played OK in my standalone DVD player (actually a Magnavox DVD recorder, MWR10D6) up to near the middle, i.e. near the layer-break position. Then it starting giving brief freezes, lasting only 1-2 seconds, as if there were a layer-break every 1-2 minutes thereafter. This continued for the next 10-15 minutes before I threw in the towel. Obviously my standalone DVD player didn't like it. I confirmed that was the problem by reburning the movie on a different media, which played fine.

Those results are discouraging, so my motivation is greatly diminished to continue any further testing of these Ritek media. Nevertheless I'll try a few more burns, probably at the 6x and 8x speeds, just to see what happens. It's unlikely that I'll use them for anything other than experiments. Maybe I can give them to someone I don't like. Thus, pending future unexpected developments, these media appear to be crap.

[dmagic1]

If your burner is a LiteOn burner, I hate to tell you but its not up to par. Believe me I have had a lot of burners and tested a lot of different media. I will never, ever buy a LiteOn drive again. I've got a couple of new Liteys that came with new desktops and their quailty has not improved. Your best bet is with some of the well known good media. Try to look at reviews from people using LiteOn drives getting good results.

Drives like NEC are know to have better results with these Riteks as evident by the reviews on newegg.

It really comes down to getting the right drive/media combo. I have a NEC3500 that does great on Ritek DL but a NEC 3550 which doesnt do quit as good. I have a Samsung at does good on another media but not so well on another one. Even verbatim is going to yield varied results with different combinations.

[budz]

Using crap Ritek DL media will result in crappy results plain and simple. :P

[[_chef_]]

How about some RiData DVD+R DL discs...?

short: crap!

[JohnnyBob]

I think dmagic1 has a point. We can sometimes get lucky with second class media such as Ritek with the right burner.

So I should probably try to burn my spindle of Ritek S04-66 with my LG H55N drive, which might work better than my Lite-On DH20A4P. I know the LG works better with my Playo MCC004 disc spindles, whereas the Lite-On often refuses to recognize them after burning them! (It recognizes them OK before but not after burning them, but recognizes them fine if burned with the LG). The jury is also still out re burning MKM003 (Singapore) with the Lite-On, which have been giving me occasional random freezes (a few seconds) while playing them back with my Magnavox MWR10D6, although that could be partly a DVD player compatibility problem. The Lite-On also occasionally has a problem reading marginal scratched/warped pressed discs, while the LG almost invariably reads them.

However I'm not negative about Lite-On drives, in general, and I'll probably always have one in my system. They've work fine with my Taiyo Yuden TYG03 and Verbatim MKM001 (Singapore) discs. They come without rip-guard, so are fast rippers out of the box, in general. I also find Lite-On's indispensable because they provide internal error reporting which allows use of Nero CD-DVD Speed, etc to scan burned discs for quality of the burns. Without that we're just raking leaves into the wind when talking about what burns better, and what doesn't.