Blu-ray prices go up following HD DVD's death

[ejai]

Blu-ray came as a package deal with the purchase of the PS3, I know no one who purchased a PS3 with the mind set that they were getting a blu-ray player.

That is probably a factor of who you know more than anything else. I am a video enthusiast and I got my HD camcorder about a year ago. For anyone lurking in the video editing forums of creativecow or similar, it is quite obvious that a large number of people have been buying the PS3 solely as a Blu-Ray player and media center.

You're talking nonsense, first of all there aren't many video enthusiast in terms of numbers over kids who just want to play the next generation game console. Being a so called video enthusiast means you are in the minority when it comes to purchasing a game console in order to play movies.

Your passion for HD is not in the majority, if it was true DVD would be dead by now. DVD sales are still in the majority and show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

[bbanderic]

Blu-ray came as a package deal with the purchase of the PS3, I know no one who purchased a PS3 with the mind set that they were getting a blu-ray player.

That is probably a factor of who you know more than anything else. I am a video enthusiast and I got my HD camcorder about a year ago. For anyone lurking in the video editing forums of creativecow or similar, it is quite obvious that a large number of people have been buying the PS3 solely as a Blu-Ray player and media center.

You're talking nonsense, first of all there aren't many video enthusiast in terms of numbers over kids who just want to play the next generation game console. Being a so called video enthusiast means you are in the minority when it comes to purchasing a game console in order to play movies.

Your passion for HD is not in the majority, if it was true DVD would be dead by now. DVD sales are still in the majority and show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

There are more people who purchase PS3's for movies first (Blu-ray) than you think. Of course the percentage is minute compared to the percentage who buy strictly for games. Check the AVS Blu-ray forums and see for yourself.

HD(TV) may not be in the majority now but it will be , make no mistake. Most who buy new TV's now buy HD. Will Blu-ray ever overtake DVD, probably not anytime soon, I believe Blu-ray and DVD will coexist so long as optical media remains a viable option.

[ejai]

HD(TV) may not be in the majority now but it will be , make no mistake. Most who buy new TV's now buy HD. Will Blu-ray ever overtake DVD, probably not anytime soon, I believe Blu-ray and DVD will coexist so long as optical media remains a viable option.

I agree.

[sanlyn]

...Now the Oppos are junk too? The Oppos which are WIDELY regarded by video enthusiasts everywhere as having some of the best DVD players on the market.

I'm really starting to think that your problem isn't with Blu-ray or Oppo DVD players at all, maybe you need to learn how to calibrate your set to get the most out of your players. Better yet, maybe you should stay away from digital all together and stick with your VHS and vinyl record players. From your comments on this thread nothing digital seems to make you happy.

Hi, bbanderic, glad to meet you. I disagree with the term "video enthusiasts everywhere". I know lots of video enthuisiasts in the northeast and down South, and I belong to a movie fan club in Astoria, NY; a very few like the Oppo's, most others don't.

Learn to calibrate my set? No, I let a video tech at Harvey's in Roslyn, NY, calibrate both my monitors. He charged a hefty $142.50 each (plus tax, each), but he did repair an out-of-spec resistor in the Sony for free. He tells me he used some Compuvideo stuff and Fairchild color generators, and some Kodak gear. I don't know how to use that stuff, but he plays with circuit boards and stuff inside the sets so I had to leave them there 2 weeks or so, each.

I use two DVD players, 4 DVD recorders, 4 VCR's, and two digital cable boxes. They all look pretty good thru both my monitors, whose picture controls I haven't had to touch since they were aligned. Not much I can do about garbage thru the cable boxes, though. The Panasonic recorder seems a bit red and contrasty, but I think all Pannys look like that. My newer DVD has a wee bit of blue in it sometimes, though just barely, but what can you expect for $1500 in a refurb'd DVD player? If you think I'm going to recalibrate my monitors every time I switch signal sources, I have a better answer: if the source can't be made to look decent on a properly calibrated monitor, get rid of the source. I've seen four DVD players during the past year that use Mediatek chips; they all looked pretty much the same, so I returned them. I always thought Zoran did the best job with color anyway.

As for learning to calibrate your own monitor: Never use a monitor's picture controls, as you did, for major calibration work. There are 3 colors, you can only adjust 2, and then only one at a time, and adjusting any one throws 2 others out of whack. Always start your adjustment with gray scales, working on color temperature and contrast first, go to color last (if the first steps work out OK, the color won't need work). The color temp of your LCD is likely somewhere between 7500 and 9000K, so the manufacturer juiced up your reds to make it look closer to the proper 6500K. I don't think I could live with that. On the other hand, as a video enthusiast you probably have a set with better control capability.

I don't expect any VHS to look like hi-def, but my transfers to DVD look better than the originals (thanks to many very talented people in this forum). I own a couple hundred retail digital movies, too, and a few hundred audio CD's, and I enjoy every one of them, especially the Telarcs with their gorgeous depth and width. As for vinyl; you've never heard a first-rate audio setup (but I'm sure you've heard some pretty loud ones).

I think the problem with some readers in this thread might be that they can't accept people who don't belong to Circuit City's target market, either for video or audio. Try http://www.gradolabs.com or http://www.psbspeakers.com or http://www.naim-audio.com/products/intro_av.html or http://www.wireworldcable.com or even http://www.msbtech.com (careful, the latter is ALL DIGITAL) to see that I spend my $$$ a long way from the nearest Blu-Ray / Monster Cable vendor, and a lot of my stuff is (gasp!) digital. For that kind of $$$, I don't expect to be obsolete 15 minutes later. And I expect shadow density and color to be right on.

But I do get blank DVD's at Staples on sale, and I very happily recorded 23 DVD's in February off TCM that filled the last few pages of my third 124-disk volume of home-made DVD's (I think that adds up to 372 home-grown digital discs, does it not?). Yeah, I know, some TCM broadcasts look awful. But if it's a good movie and unavailable from any other source, I don't care. If I get a broadcast that looks better than my old VHS tape of the same title, guess what I do? I throw the tape away.

Really, people. Peace out. Not liking Blu-Ray doen't mean I'm not "digital". It just means Sony's hands haven't found their way into my pocket yet.

[SatStorm]

Offtopic:

TCM + Virtualdub Cropping (to make it truly widescreen) + Neatvideo + Video Enhancer (to scale it back to 720x480/576) = A great DVD.

Half times that way it looks better the official DVD Video releases.

[sanlyn]

Offtopic:

TCM + Virtualdub Cropping (to make it truly widescreen) + Neatvideo + Video Enhancer (to scale it back to 720x480/576) = A great DVD.

Half times that way it looks better the official DVD Video releases.

true, SatStorm, I couldn't live without my NeatVideo. I haven't tried any tricks with Video Enhancer, tho. Thanks for the tip. Say, NeatVideo often repairs compression artifacts, I wonder if I could get some of that Blu-Ray video into VirtualDub and ... ? Ah, but there' so little time.

Oops, I think I went off-topic again.

[rhegedus]

BD+ is cracked

[bbanderic]

Is that why DVDs are no longer CSS encrypted?

Ha ha.

But CSS encryption has been circumvented, so why the concern about BD+?

Given that Blu-ray now has a monopoly on high def discs and that AACS has been totally cracked, there will be a lot of pressure on movie studios to use BD+. I suspect virtually all new Blu-ray releases will use BD+.

BD+ will be cracked as well, we all know that, just like all the copy-protection schemes that came before it. This concern about BD+ or anything like it is a non-issue, it's only something for the Blu-ray haters to talk about, for now.

BD+ cracked:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1114444

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1009304

The Blu-ray haters are going to have to find something else to bitch about .

[jagabo]

BD+ cracked:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1114444

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1009304

Glad to hear it. Now let's see how long it takes Sony to make Slysoft an offer they can't refuse.

[SCDVD]

BD+ cracked:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1114444

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1009304

Glad to hear it. Now let's see how long it takes Sony to make Slysoft an offer they can't refuse.

So what is Sony going to do - Invade China?

[SatStorm]

Don't give ideas...

[SingSing]

Can I get a good deal on a Bluray player in Tokyo ?

I will in Japan in the first week of August.

[SCDVD]

It will cost you a lot more. First, the domestic prices in Japan are higher to start with plus the currency exchange rate is lousy right now as well. In addition, you will have a region problem plus whatever other differences may be in the player for the local users.

[edDV]

Can I get a good deal on a Bluray player in Tokyo ?

I will in Japan in the first week of August.

I think you will find Japan very expensive with current exchange rates.

I once bought a camcorder in Tokyo which I claimed at SFO customs and paid the import duty. To my surprise I later got a "use tax" bill from the state of California for $175.

I would have saved money ordering from New York even without these added taxes.

[rhegedus]

Two points related to the original thread:

1) Amazon had its fingers burned with the bad PR and has put the price of Planet Earth to $49.95 - 5$ cheaper than it was a month ago.

2) eproductwars data for the past month suggests that there has been no overall change in BD disk price:

[SingSing]

Can I get a good deal on a Bluray player in Tokyo ?
I will in Japan in the first week of August.

I think you will find Japan very expensive with current exchange rates.
I once bought a camcorder in Tokyo which I claimed at SFO customs and paid the import duty. To my surprise I later got a "use tax" bill from the state of California for $175.
I would have saved money ordering from New York even without these added taxes.

Thank for the tip. I bought a $240.00 moving coil cartridge on last trip, declare it as toy, and did not get charge "fee" at Ohara. I will buy a few Totoro then.

[edDV]

It's great looking around Akihabara for deals. Easy to get carried away unless you know prices at home. For high priced consumer products you can negotiate price at the hotel international shops and get an international warranty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara

[terjeber]

Did (does) HD-DVD not have the same HDCP and region protection as Blu-Ray?

Blu-ray has the same AACS encryption as HD-DVD -- which has already been cracked. But it has a second layer, BD+, which has not.

Thank you.

Just for the record, the BD+ encryption has now been cracked too.

[terjeber]

All things being equal, it appears (to me) that Blu-Ray's problem is over-compression. That's what I get from forums like:
http://boardreader.com/tp/Compression+artifacts.html

Damn. You are FUNNY. Really. Clueless too, but funny. ....
So, why would you watch it on anything but Blu?

My, my, the BluRay boys are not only a bit color blind, but they get snippy about any criticism of their very imperfect new toy.

Not snippy at all, I just have a very low tolerance level for idiots.

If everything about the two technologies is "identical"

For the movies that were released on Blu and HD DVD both, yes, with about two exceptions, everything was identical. Same video data on the disk. 100% identical. Some of the BDs had an additional sound track and some expanded extras due to the bigger disk size, but the movies were identical VC-1 encoded movies. No "ifs" about it.

(even tho you've gone to the trouble of pointing out how they are different),

I have? Your drug-induced religious experience seems to be a long-lasting one. I have never stated that the movies delivered on Blu and HD DVD were different, and I would challenge you to show me where I did if you still claim I did. Are the two technologies, that is Blu and HD DVD different. Marginally. Blu has more bandwidth and more storage, but the studios that released on both formats typically encoded for the smallest common denominator, and released identical movie files on the two formats.

and you can't see any differences between the two

Reading is not your strong suit I gather. If a studio decides not to encode to the smallest common denominator it will get a better result on Blu since it will be able to stuff more picture information in there than was technically possible with HD DVD. Disney has done this on some of their releases I think. In other words, some of the Disney releases could not have been released on HD DVD because that format technically couldn't play movies with that good an encoding.

What I pointed out was that the studios that released for both formats generally used HD DVD VC-1 encoding parameters for both (with a couple of exceptions in 2006) which meant that any movie released on both formats was IDENTICAL on those two formats.

You claimed to have seen a difference, which would have been impossible.

(even though you've taken the trouble to point out the differences that cause you to favor one over the other),

Eh, I didn't favor one or the other due to PQ. Not at all. Again, if you can find a post where I stated I did, that would convince me that you are not having a drug-induced religious experience. I favored Blu over HD DVD because I was convinced Blu would win given it's studio support. I also favored it because it had burners available and I prefer a format where I can burn movies. Toshiba never released a functional HD DVD burner.

then why does it matter to you that I don't like Blu-Ray?

I really don't care one way or another, and I have never criticized you for liking HD DVD. I would have favored HD DVD if it had the support of the studios too. Tosh would have sorted out the burner problems eventually. Again, if you can find a posting where I claim that I don't like your support of HD DVD or your criticism of Blu... well, you get the point. Perhaps.

What did I criticize about your posting? Your stupidity. Your absurd claims about easily seeing things that can't be seen. As I said, I have an amazingly low tolerance for stupidity.

You mean you really bought and kept an Oppo player?

Yes, I did. I wanted to see what up-conversion did for my DVDs. In some cases I was happy, mostly I was unimpressed. Why would I not keep it?

Uh, after looking over your post and the information therein, I wouldn't use the word "clueless" quite so freely when referring to those with whom you disagree.

So, tell me, how do two identical movies, same picture information, same laser pickup, same decoding, end up looking different on the same TV? Just curious. How do you make that happen? I mean, the exact same bitstream will flow over the HDMI interface to the monitor/TV. How does it differ when it gets to the screen? Did Sony include some magic TV-destroying device in the Blu-Ray spec that makes the same TV display the exact same TV signal differently? Curious minds wants to know.

[RabidDog]

DVD sales are still in the majority and show signs of slowing down soon.

[terjeber]

Good, so the public chose Blu over HD DVD. That settles it then. Why would anyone then state that it was not the public who chose?

Pure and simple: HD-DVD was outsold and died because they did not have the movie studios onboard like BD did. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head examined.

Agreed. Or to put it differently, the public chose the format with the best studio support. Honestly, I am quite convinced that any format that couldn't bring Disney on board was doomed from the start. There was no corporate conspiracy, just regular business and allegiances. Once they were made, the public had a choice, and they chose the obvious one.

[terjeber]

Pure and simple: HD-DVD was outsold and died because they did not have the movie studios onboard like BD did.

word is out that any Blu-Ray stuff you buy today is obsolete even as price gouging on BD is already underway.

It isn't difficult being king of the hill when there's no competition.

Dang, your religious experience continues for a looong time dude. What kind of drugs were they? The persistent HD DVD fanboy mantra that old Blu movies and players will obsoleted by the BD 2.0 spec is as wrong today as it was the first time some fanboy made it up. The ignorance required to continue to spout this nonsense in face of all evidence to the contrary indicates a massive level of ignorance.

And then there is the "price gouging due to no competition" argument. It's an interesting one and about as logical as the argument that there is no competition in the car industry since there is obviously a standard size-span for roads, and since that has been standardized, there is no longer competition.

There was never any real competitor to the DVD format. Did that mean that there was no competition? Of course not. Is there gouging in the Blu camp now? No, there isn't, and the slight increase in average price is fully attributable to the increase in production cost. You go out and try to buy a laser for this purpose and you'll see.

There is still ample competition, and the competition will bring down prices as it always does. Stating that there is no competition requires a phenomenally large hole between the ears.

[terjeber]

because from hardware point I can bet that probably the standalone HD-DVD players were outselling standalone BR-DVD players at any given moment in time of their competition.

Stand-alone HD DVD players out-sold BD players most of 2007. It was not by as much as one would expect given the rather significant price difference, and the trend was not good for Toshiba. Given the fact that Toshiba was engaged in what the US typically defines as illegal dumping, this is quite astonishing. Tosh should have out-sold stand-alone Blu players with a very significant margin.

As I said, the trend was not good for Tosh either, and in December they sold fewer HD DVD players than there were stand-alone Blu players sold. This is particularly amazing given that they dropped the price close to the $100 level, which is a good point of entry for the not-so-affluent consumer. Even at this low level Tosh was unable to make any significant dent in the market compared to $500 Blu players.

To me that is the consumer, obviously the affluent consumer, speaking quite loudly and clearly. The not-so-affluent consumer was keeping quiet.

[bbanderic]

Good, so the public chose Blu over HD DVD. That settles it then. Why would anyone then state that it was not the public who chose?

Pure and simple: HD-DVD was outsold and died because they did not have the movie studios onboard like BD did. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head examined.

Agreed. Or to put it differently, the public chose the format with the best studio support. Honestly, I am quite convinced that any format that couldn't bring Disney on board was doomed from the start. There was no corporate conspiracy, just regular business and allegiances. Once they were made, the public had a choice, and they chose the obvious one.

I agree on the studio support, 100%. I would also add that for me, the hardware manufacturing support in the Blu-ray camp was another deciding factor. The fact that Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp and Samsung produced Blu-ray players compared to only Toshiba for the HD-DVD camp, in addition to the studio support, made the decision to go Blu a no brainer.

[terjeber]

Blu-ray came as a package deal with the purchase of the PS3, I know no one who purchased a PS3 with the mind set that they were getting a blu-ray player.

That is probably a factor of who you know more than anything else. I am a video enthusiast and I got my HD camcorder about a year ago. For anyone lurking in the video editing forums of creativecow or similar, it is quite obvious that a large number of people have been buying the PS3 solely as a Blu-Ray player and media center.

You're talking nonsense, first of all there aren't many video enthusiast in terms of numbers over kids who just want to play the next generation game console. Being a so called video enthusiast means you are in the minority when it comes to purchasing a game console in order to play movies.

I am not quite sure what you mean by the above? That a minority of video enthusiasts buy the PS3? Hardly. If you sampled the people who have personal HD or HDV camcorders I am willing to bet you will find a very large portion of those also have a PS3. In fact, once the 40G PS3 came out it became a huge hit in the "I don't play any games on this thing" crowd. The PS3 is a very capable Blu-Ray player. It is an excellent home theater piece. I use it to watch all of the movies I have on my PC harddrive and all of the MP3s I have ripped over the years. I used to have cables and crap from my PC in my office to my home theater system so that I could play all my MP3s on my home theater setup. Now I just have the PS3 and a wireless connection. Sure, it isn't the only, or probably even the best, solution for this, but it does a good job.

This is what I use my PS3 for today
- Play Blu-Ray movies
- Show off my own videos in HD, streaming from my editing PC
- Watch any of the DVDs I have bought in my living room, they are all ripped and on my PC which is in my office
- Play any of my MP3s on my home theater setup, these are also all on the PC in my office
- Watch the latest stuff from YouTube, streaming straight to my PS3 thanks to TVersity (no web browsing)
- Watch streaming news from any of the major news services on my home theater setup (no browsing)

What I have used my PS3 for for about 3 hours total, but not in the last few months
- Play a game

Your passion for HD is not in the majority, if it was true DVD would be dead by now. DVD sales are still in the majority and show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

Of course my HD passion is not in the majority, I have never claimed it is. Why do you think I feel it is? Of course DVD sales are in the majority, but as for not showing any signes of slowing down, some do disagree with you on that one. I simply don't have the numbers to say one way or the other.

[Conquest10]

Reading is not your strong suit I gather. If a studio decides not to encode to the smallest common denominator it will get a better result on Blu since it will be able to stuff more picture information in there than was technically possible with HD DVD. Disney has done this on some of their releases I think. In other words, some of the Disney releases could not have been released on HD DVD because that format technically couldn't play movies with that good an encoding.

Please.

You need to take some lessons from rhegedus. He may be a bit fanboy-ish in his stance but he backs it up with real facts not outlandish claims like that. (just playing about the fanboy, Rob )

[Midzuki]

There was no corporate conspiracy,
just regular business and allegiances.

There are people who see no difference at all between
"regular business + allegiances" and "corporate conspiracy".

[SingSing]

It's great looking around Akihabara for deals. Easy to get carried away unless you know prices at home. For high priced consumer products you can negotiate price at the hotel international shops and get an international warranty.

It is not easy to carry the boxed electronics thru Akihabara subway station, because of the turnsite. Many stores actually delivery to the airline counter on the day of your flight. We got altered clothing from store, and fresh delicacies last time. I will stop by Ginza then find my way to Koto-Ku, will defintely do Akihabara again.

[edDV]

It's great looking around Akihabara for deals. Easy to get carried away unless you know prices at home. For high priced consumer products you can negotiate price at the hotel international shops and get an international warranty.

It is not easy to carry the boxed electronics thru Akihabara subway station, because of the turnsite. Many stores actually delivery to the airline counter on the day of your flight. We got altered clothing from store, and fresh delicacies last time. I will stop by Ginza then find my way to Koto-Ku, will defintely do Akihabara again.

I once (80's) managed to carry a 27" Sony pro monitor from Akihabara back to the hotel and then onto the bus to Narita. At that time you could save 30% on exchange rate.

[Video Head]

A little help please...

I am trying to remember what a person is called who attempts to dominate discussions or debates by talking more than anyone else, will not consider anyone else's point of view because they are certain that they, and only they, have all the answers, and when challenged in a logical fashion resorts to name calling in a feeble attempt to intimidate and belittle...