Blu-ray prices go up following HD DVD's death

[edDV]

According to this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120450428955606405.html?mod=hps_us_editors_picks

Toshiba Corp. Chief Executive Atsutoshi Nishida said:

"What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced."

The Blu-Ray DVD and standard DVD will be made from the same 1920x1080p high bitrate 10-14bit master. The BluRay version will remain 1920x1080p but be reduced to 8bits and 15-25 Mb/s MPeg2/VC-1/H.264. The DVD version will be resolution reduced to 720x480/576p MPeg2 @ ~5Mb/s VBR.

A high quality master is the key. Upscale from DVD can look very good except for very large screen sizes. At 42-50" the difference can be noticed but if you stick with DVD you will be happy. When you add BluRay, you will notice the difference and and be less happy with your old collection. If you never visit Paris, you will be happy on the DVD farm.

[jagabo]

What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too.

LOL! Sour grapes.

[SatStorm]

We can see what upscaling can do our selfs you know, in a real life test. Easy and fast.

Just use a good mpeg 1 at 352X288 converted from a superbit DVD. Then, use deemon's videoenhancer to make it 720x576.

Compare the original to the upscaled.

IMO, it looks "identical" on a 25'' CRT screen and there is a small difference on the so called average 29" CRT screen. On a 40" LCD/Plasma screen, the difference is obvious!

If we do the math, we can guess that on the 37" LCDs, BD and upscaled DVD goona look alike. On the 42", there is gonna be difference, but not a huge one. On the 50" the difference is gonna be obvious!

Or Mr Atsutoshi Nishida knows something we don't know (like a magical upscale technology the Toshiba labs prepare for us), or he strongly believes that people in this world is blind.

[Conquest10]

Not releasing Blu-Ray in China is an idiotic business move as well, what's to stop a Chinese citizen from smuggling in an American or British Blu-Ray disc and dissecting that. What's more, if the discs are going to be "MADE IN CHINA," then the Chinese will still have a way for them to be pirated. Short of an embargo, China will be able to pirate Blu-Ray, Sony may only further hurt themselves in the long run.

Another thing to bring up with this is that if you go out of your way to deny a portion of the population access to something that will only promote things such as piracy. A perfect example off the top of my head is the movie Hero. It was released in China in theaters then on DVD. Miramax in the US got the rights to the movie but refused to release it in North America. I, like many other people, chose to purchase a DVD from China and have it shipped to the US. Miramax being the intelligent company that they are chose to go after the sites that sold the Chinese DVD instead of actually releasing the movie to give us Americans the opportunity of viewing the movie. They finally did release it like three years later after encouragement from Quentin Tarantino. As for me, I refuse to purchase the Miramax DVD for the shit they pulled.

So my point is: Life finds a way.

[ejai]

It was Blue Ray vs HD DVD, and Blue ray won.

Now, it is Blue ray vs Wallet. Guess who is going to win?

I'm in total agreeance, with the state of the US and other countries facing a slow down in their economy the winner of HD might also be the loser.

Sony is too greedy, and as an example I remember when the PSP was first introduced to the public Sony ignored the cry from the consumers to add a TV out to their handheld device. Instead many people refused to buy the UMD disks because they were limited to viewing the video only on the PSP.

This hurt PSP sales as well as put a stake through the heart of the UMD disks. Now they have corrected it only to find that the consumer has become disenchanted with their product.

I would not buy a blu-ray player unless it comes down to $200 and the videos around $20 - $30 dollars.

[fritzi93]

A perfect example off the top of my head is the movie Hero. It was released in China in theaters then on DVD. Miramax in the US got the rights to the movie but refused to release it in North America.

That's a sore subject. The translation for English subs on the original DVD was really beautiful. Elegant English (there is such a thing). It gave you more of a feeling for the story.

The American DVD release, by contrast, was disappointing. The subs, in places, were almost colloquial American English. As to the English (dubbed) audio track, it's awful. I can just stand to watch it with the Chinese track and English subs.

You really need to see both to understand what I mean. Nice job, Miramax.

[rhegedus]

I looked out of the window this morning and was quite surprised to find that the sky hadn't fallen and was still blue...

So Amazon upped the price of two box sets and that means that all BD prices are on the up?

Not really - despite Amazon's HD firesale, the average price difference between the two formats is less than a dollar, and new releases such as No Country For Old Men, and I am Legend are less that 25$.



Hey, NICEBUD, did you sustain a head injury in the juggernaut crash?

[Video Head]

Well, the public didn't choose DVD either, but there it is. As far as Blu-Ray players, waiting for prices to come down is the best action we have to lower prices. I wouldn't pay $400 for a player when I know that eventually I can get it for $100 - patience always wins out. DVD will be around for a while because of the large customer base so I have no fear that it will go away any time soon.
Just wait and see...

DVD's competition was VHS. An easy choice for the consumer to make with the huge leaps in quality and convenience. DVD also did not require the latest TV technology to take advantage of the quality and convenience gains. To expect regular Joe consumer to purchase an expensive new TV technology AND an expensive new player AND expensive movie titles may be pushing the limits, especially when what he already owns looks just fine. Regular Joe consumer drives the world markets, not the technophiles. DVD will be around for a while. Blu-Ray may be one of those technologies that busts initially and comes back some time later in a new form...think Apple Newton PDA...

[DereX888]

Not releasing Blu-Ray in China is an idiotic business move as well, what's to stop a Chinese citizen from smuggling in an American or British Blu-Ray disc and dissecting that. What's more, if the discs are going to be "MADE IN CHINA," then the Chinese will still have a way for them to be pirated. Short of an embargo, China will be able to pirate Blu-Ray, Sony may only further hurt themselves in the long run.

Excellent post overall, but:
You (and not only you) making the same mistake of assuming S*ny or anyone else have enough 'power' to force chinese rulers, The Communist Party of China, to listen to anyone else They tried that once with DVDs, and when chinese govt. threatened to simply ignore DVD-Video format and switch to quickly created new formats (either SVCDs or CVDs), they all backed off - a billion people market is not something they'd foolishly forego in the name of anything
Also, you are missing the point that, first of all, the BR players already are being manufactured in China (and most likely still will be) by the Chinese themselves, so...
They won't have to "smuggle" them in case the device would really become personae non grata in China (which I doubt will ever happen), but assuming it would happen - people can just go to any of the many "free trade zones" that popped-up in every major chinese cities lately and legally buy it there, or even buy them directly from (their own, mind you) chinese manufacturers, even by mail... so obviously they can't stop the chinese from owning the BR players which they already make there
What's else they could do is to try limit content availability (for chinese market), but even if S*ny would use its marketing muscles and enforce complete boycott of chinese BR market, it would have only encourage more and just greatly *expand* the piracy there after all, so obviously they won't do such foolish move.
Just have a look at plain old region coding and what it did to strenghten the piracy in markets like Russia, India or China. Now the markets there are so 'spoiled' that virtually no one wants to buy "original DVD" movies even at 1/3 of the our 'regular' prices, and its not only the price factor - the "illegal" discs are sometimes better released by pirates, in a better packaging, than the US originals by the studios (not to mention additions of their local language subtitles, be it russian or chinese, which all US or Euro releases lack of). I have few examples bought there, and kudos the i.e. boxset of original US "Band of Brothers" to the chinese counterfeited version (really).
Actually nowadays movie studios themselves release all major movies on a cheap "bootleg-alike" DVD versions in those countries within days from movies' premieres in a desperate try to compete with 'pirates', yet who is to blame for such situation - their own idiotic region coding among other stupid moves on their part, the 'pirates' just took advantage of studios' stupidity after all.

[disturbed1]

DVD's competition was VHS. An easy choice for the consumer to make with the huge leaps in quality and convenience. DVD also did not require the latest TV technology to take advantage of the quality and convenience gains. To expect regular Joe consumer to purchase an expensive new TV technology AND an expensive new player AND expensive movie titles may be pushing the limits, especially when what he already owns looks just fine. Regular Joe consumer drives the world markets, not the technophiles. DVD will be around for a while. Blu-Ray may be one of those technologies that busts initially and comes back some time later in a new form...think Apple Newton PDA...

That's a great point.

When friends/family come over and watch movies, they always ask how much for the TV? HD-DVD player? HD-DVD Disc? Surround system? Cables? Then the WOW that comes after the total price is always louder than the wow that comes after seeing and hearing the great quality.

In my office I have a 21" TV that I watch all day long. Suites me just fine for proofing video projects and catching the news. The lounge has a 32" wide screen CRT, which is perfect for casual watching and has our game systems hooked up to it. The only time we really fire up the HDTV and surround sound is on the occasional video night, and once in a great while for the Wii. In all honesty I wish I would of invested the money into something else. Sure the geek gadgets points are nice, but it just isn't practical for today.

Our cable company has ~200 channels, less than 30 are HDTV. Once the cable companies push more HD channels it would be a different story. By then, of course, my TV will be obsolete like the old 45" square big screens from the 90s. Satalite just is not an option for my climate. It can snow then rain, then be 60 degrees all in 24 hours. We've had Direct TV before - loved the picture quality - but the "NO SIGNAL" gets old after a while. Even if it only happens rarely once a week for a few minutes at a time.


The reason DVD and VHS were so popular is because of 3 reasons, price, compatibility, written in stone standards. A 10 year old DVD player can still play a new release today. The old top loading VHS players still played rentals 15 years after the machine came out. The way Blu-Ray looks now, it isn't good. Constantly changing profiles and features. No one wants to mess around with firmware updates. Joe Blow can barely use Windows Update, imagine him attempting to figure out if that new Blu-Ray disc will work with his Profile 1.0 player, and decipher if his player supports a firmware update or not. It's a mess, and just looks like a rushed product that a couple of people spent less than 24hours on before releasing.

Blu-Ray will end up sitting next to BetaMax, MiniDisc, and UMD. Sony's hall of greed.

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD will end up like Laser Disc.............................................. .............

[Scooter_NJ]

Laser Disc actually had a pretty good run and defeated it's own competition in a Beta vrs. VHS sort of battle...RCA's CED system

I still use laser to this day. And still have a CED player too!

[rcubed]

I recently queried Toshiba if I could use an upscaling DVD player on my HD 16:9 TV. Unfortunately my TV does not have HDMI inputs only composite video so upscaling and/or Blu Ray are a mute point. I'm not willing to spend the $s for a new TV to get HD DVD capability via HDMI. Thanks Sony and the movie studios for their paranoia about "the analog hole".

I suspect there are quite a few set owners faced with the same situation. Fortunately the cable company has not "restricted" HD output for us users although from some of the news articles Hollywood is sure trying.

rcubed

[jagabo]

I recently queried Toshiba if I could use an upscaling DVD player on my HD 16:9 TV. Unfortunately my TV does not have HDMI inputs only composite video so upscaling and/or Blu Ray are a mute point. I'm not willing to spend the $s for a new TV to get HD DVD capability via HDMI. Thanks Sony and the movie studios for their paranoia about "the analog hole". :evil:

I suspect there are quite a few set owners faced with the same situation. Fortunately the cable company has not "restricted" HD output for us users although from some of the news articles Hollywood is sure trying.

rcubed

There are a few DVD players that can upscale over component.

But yes, Sony and the movie studios are out to screw you over.

[Scooter_NJ]

Which ones and how well do the do it?

[disturbed1]

Laser Disc actually had a pretty good run and defeated it's own competition in a Beta vrs. VHS sort of battle...RCA's CED system

I still use laser to this day. And still have a CED player too!

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are pretty good as well

That's what I meant. Laser Disc is a niche product that has deffinant advantages over VHS. It just wasn't practical at the the time. Same as Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. They have better specs than DVD, but just aren't practical/refined/thought out enough for today.


@rcubed
My Toshiba HD-A2 looks worse using component outputs compared to my non-upscaling Panasonic S35. The problem isn't component, it's copy protection. If I playback one of my authored discs on the Toshiba, it upscales to 1080i just fine over the component cables. It also will not display HD DVDs at full res unless the HDMI cable is connected.
And they wonder why there's a piracy problem

[Scooter_NJ]

Ummm..dunno why you put my name above that quote....

A backed up movie upscaled via Component looks like a million damn dollars on my A2.

[disturbed1]

Ummm..dunno why you put my name above that quote....

A backed up movie upscaled via Component looks like a million damn dollars on my A2.

Don't know either.

Edit to fix that


Agree to the quality comment. Shame that the player is crippled for those that don't have HDMI on their TVs.

[FulciLives]

I really don't understand all this nonsense.

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

I'm starting to think all these comments of Blu-Ray not looking much better than "upscaled" DVD is just sour grapes for those that have no money.

No money for the a decent HDTV ... no money for the hardware ... no money for the software.

Hell I make very little money and I managed to do it somehow.

It sickens me ... saying it doesn't look better just because you can't afford it. I really think that is what is going on here. Correct me if I am wrong and do it in a way that can make me truly believe you as opposed to calling me names etc.

As for me ... **** it ... no one can take away my experience of BLADE RUNNER on Blu-Ray. It's mine

I think you are all crazy.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Video Head]

Laser Disc actually had a pretty good run and defeated it's own competition in a Beta vrs. VHS sort of battle...RCA's CED system

I still use laser to this day. And still have a CED player too!

Where do you rent the latest CED titles from? :P

[Scooter_NJ]

I rent'em to myself! I have a few hundred titles.

I know...I know....it's a sickness.

[lordhutt]

I really don't understand all this nonsense.

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

I'm starting to think all these comments of Blu-Ray not looking much better than "upscaled" DVD is just sour grapes for those that have no money.

No money for the a decent HDTV ... no money for the hardware ... no money for the software.

Hell I make very little money and I managed to do it somehow.

It sickens me ... saying it doesn't look better just because you can't afford it. I really think that is what is going on here. Correct me if I am wrong and do it in a way that can make me truly believe you as opposed to calling me names etc.

As for me ... **** it ... no one can take away my experience of BLADE RUNNER on Blu-Ray. It's mine

I think you are all crazy.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I hear ya, Brother. The first time I watched Planet Earth using my PS3 on my new 52"KDL Sony LCD I almost shit myself. It looked almost 3D. The image quality blew me away as well as everyone else who saw it.

Regular upscaled DVD's do look awesome as well but do not compare to the BD 1080p quality.

I'm tired of these threads with people whining. So I just laugh at them and enjoy my BD's.

[lordhutt]

I really don't understand all this nonsense.

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

I'm starting to think all these comments of Blu-Ray not looking much better than "upscaled" DVD is just sour grapes for those that have no money.

No money for the a decent HDTV ... no money for the hardware ... no money for the software.

Hell I make very little money and I managed to do it somehow.

It sickens me ... saying it doesn't look better just because you can't afford it. I really think that is what is going on here. Correct me if I am wrong and do it in a way that can make me truly believe you as opposed to calling me names etc.

As for me ... **** it ... no one can take away my experience of BLADE RUNNER on Blu-Ray. It's mine

I think you are all crazy.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I hear ya, Brother. The first time I watched Planet Earth using my PS3 on my new 52"KDL Sony LCD I almost shit myself. It looked almost 3D. The image quality blew me away as well as everyone else who saw it.

Regular upscaled DVD's do look awesome as well but do not compare to the BD 1080p quality.

And the prices are not really that bad if you buy your stuff from Amazon or other online outlet...yeah places like Best Buy are high but like I said...buy on line.
I'm tired of these threads with people whining. So I just laugh at them and enjoy my BD's.

[hulinning]

no matter what the price needs to be less than $200 dollars for me to consider to upgrade to HD- DVD player.
In the other hand, I do not plan to rent HD content soon. To me a good source of DVD would be enough

[serega]

no matter what the price needs to be less than $200 dollars for me to consider to upgrade to HD- DVD player.
In the other hand, I do not plan to rent HD content soon. To me a good source of DVD would be enough

I remember we paid around $300 for VCR, then latter $350 for DVD player. I don't think that $370 Sony BD player (at Costco) looks way too expensive. Especially if you think of all that inflation since then.[/code]

[MJPollard]

no matter what the price needs to be less than $200 dollars for me to consider to upgrade to HD- DVD player.
In the other hand, I do not plan to rent HD content soon. To me a good source of DVD would be enough

I remember we paid around $300 for VCR, then latter $350 for DVD player. I don't think that $370 Sony BD player (at Costco) looks way too expensive. Especially if you think of all that inflation since then.

With the ever-rising cost of gasoline, which pushes up expenses for other items (food, etc.), my dollar needs to stretch even further these days. This means cutting back on frivolous expenses, such as new DVDs and "guy toys," and means especially that there's not going to be any HD anything for me for the forseeable future. And I believe I'm far from the only one, and that tells me that Blu-ray (and HD in general) is going to have a rocky time of it for quite a while.

Has Blu-ray won the war at the wrong time? Could it be relegated to niche status (or doomed entirely) in the face of an increasingly cash-starved public? Time will tell.

[cal_tony]

Fulcilives wrote:

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

Yes I watched the same thing and was also amazed how much better it looked. But, most of the "better" was the result of a frame by frame restoration. The other copies of the movie in the box set did not undergo the restoration and even Bluray couldn't help them.

Tony

[Video Head]

I really don't understand all this nonsense.

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

I'm starting to think all these comments of Blu-Ray not looking much better than "upscaled" DVD is just sour grapes for those that have no money.

No money for the a decent HDTV ... no money for the hardware ... no money for the software.

Hell I make very little money and I managed to do it somehow.

It sickens me ... saying it doesn't look better just because you can't afford it. I really think that is what is going on here. Correct me if I am wrong and do it in a way that can make me truly believe you as opposed to calling me names etc.

As for me ... **** it ... no one can take away my experience of BLADE RUNNER on Blu-Ray. It's mine

I think you are all crazy.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

From your statements I would gather that you are somewhat of a technophile - crying over the quality of Blade Runner and making little money but still managing to purchase the latest high-techniery...

Average Joe consumer may not share your love of technology to the point that they would commit a large amount of their disposable income to it. Home, vehicles, kids, sports, kids, vacations, kids, entertainment, kids...many Average Joes have set other financial priorities. If Average Joe does not percieve appreciable benefit for the investment required they will probably not invest their hard earned cash. If Average Joe does not adopt a technology it becomes niche...Hollywood does not like niche, they like 150% market penetration and they like it now...this format battle has probably already stretched their patience.

[FulciLives]

Fulcilives wrote:

I watched the Blu-Ray of BLADE RUNNER via my PS3 to my Hitachi 51" 16x9 WS Rear Projection CRT HDTV via HDMI in 1080i last week.

I cried it looked so good. Yes ... I cried. It was simply gorgeous. Stupendous. Magical.

Yes I watched the same thing and was also amazed how much better it looked. But, most of the "better" was the result of a frame by frame restoration. The other copies of the movie in the box set did not undergo the restoration and even Bluray couldn't help them.

Tony

Well actually I am talking about the "International Cut" of the film ... not the "Final Cut" ... Yes I understand the "Final Cut" looks best as it got "extra" remastering but the "International Cut" (my favorite of all the other versions) looked amazing so your comment doesn't hold water to me.

I'll get around to watching the "Final Cut" one of these days but it doesn't have the voice over so that right there makes it less-than-interesting for me as I've already experienced the so-called "Director's Cut" (which I saw twice in theatres when it was re-released) and was less than pleased with it compared to the "International Cut".

Sometimes things are best left as they were ... BLADE RUNNER is one of these and another example would be THE EXORCIST - THE VERSION YOU NEVER SAW. Neither that "cut" of THE EXORCIST nor the "other" cuts of BLADE RUNNER were "needed".

As for being a "technophile" ... well I guess I am somewhat "guilty" of that and I suppose I do understand how not everyone ... at this point in time ... can afford HDTV and Blu-Ray hardware etc. but that also is not a reason to "rip on it" for not looking better enough than standard "upscaled" DVD. Blu-Ray being substantially better than standard DVD is a fact. Saying it doesn't look better enough than standard DVD is more of an emotional fueled "rationalization" for those that (for whatever reasons) do not want to buy into Blu-Ray (with the number one reason apparently being "financial" in nature).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mwkurt]

Fulcilives,

I don't think it's a case of sour grapes or the like. I think it is mainly a case of the quality of a DVD picture is good enough, especially upscaled. Personally, I don't really care to be able to see the blemishes and such on an actors face that I am sure HD magnifies. Of course, I would jump on board the HD bandwagon and will when players come down below $100.00 and I can find HD movies in the bargain bin at Walmart. Until then, I am completely satidfies with my DVD's upscaled.
Mark

[SingSing]

BlueRay vs HDdvd get all the news, becuase the war was classic and juicy. The real bread and butter contest is HDdvd/BlueRay vs DVD.

BlueRay is the wild card that won only the conference championship, But we only pay/remember who won the world series.