Help with camcorder selection, please!

[odalager]

Our church is planning to broadcast the morning worship service through our local cable service provider starting sometime this year. Any recommendations on what camcorder to use in this kind of project? Also, considering that our local cable company will shift to HD programming next year, do we really need a HD camcorder?
Or is it possible to capture in SD( standard def), submit the video for broadcast, and the local cable company can broadcast the video in HD signal? (I really need a confirmation on this one)
We need at least two units of camcorder that can capture broadcast quality videos. Is the Sony vx-2100 a good low light unit? You all know what the lighting condition are inside churches.
Budget is around 5K. And sorry for my english as it's not my first language.
Thanks for reading!

[Clevo89]

You will need a HD camera to record HD video

For TV broadcast quality you will need more than a consumer level "camcorder"

It sounds lik an overly ambitious project you are undertaking for your level of expertise.

I would suggest hiring some equipment or at least asking the Cable TV company to recommend what they use for their broadcast.

[odalager]

Thanks for the reply! Appreciate it.
But still I need a confirmation if I can make a video in Standard Def and then broadcast the video in High Def signal. I'm speaking HD signal NOT HD format. Yes or no?
Church has a budget to buy two Sony VX-2100. From reading other's post, it looks like the VX-2100 can handle low light situations pretty good (typical church lighting-you know what the lighting condition is in most churches).
It's a pretty simple project, tape the current church service, edit, create DVD, and then broadcast the service the following Sunday.
'Consumer' quality HD video camcorder that is now 'flooding' the market costs about $1k. The video quality from this camcorder might not be good enough for broadcast. I read from Videomaker magazine that a 'good enough' broadcast quality HD camcorder costs about $4.5K
Any comments or suggestion is welcome. Thanks!

[edDV]

Thanks for the reply! Appreciate it.
But still I need a confirmation if I can make a video in Standard Def and then broadcast the video in High Def signal. I'm speaking HD signal NOT HD format. Yes or no?
Church has a budget to buy two Sony VX-2100. From reading other's post, it looks like the VX-2100 can handle low light situations pretty good (typical church lighting-you know what the lighting condition is in most churches).
It's a pretty simple project, tape the current church service, edit, create DVD, and then broadcast the service the following Sunday.
'Consumer' quality HD video camcorder that is now 'flooding' the market costs about $1k. The video quality from this camcorder might not be good enough for broadcast. I read from Videomaker magazine that a 'good enough' broadcast quality HD camcorder costs about $4.5K
Any comments or suggestion is welcome. Thanks!

I haven't seen local access cable accept anything but SD resolution. Check with them. If this is going to be live, they need to install a ("T channel" connection point) at your church and you need to install a switcher and audio mixer. That may prove expensive to you.

If this is going to be broadcast from tape, confirm the formats they accept. Here it is S-VHS, MiniDV and DVDR. Your editor ideally needs multicamera support. Check out Vegas Pro 8 or Premiere Pro CS3.

The Sony VX2100 is good but will need something like a Beachtek DXA-4 for audio connection to your Church audio mixer board for one camera. Or get a PD-170 with built in XLR connectors for balanced line level in.
http://beachtek.com/prod.html

[odalager]

I forgot to mention that the church wants to broadcast ASAP but budget is limited to two SD camcorders. We don't want to buy these SD camcorders now and then find out that we might not be able to use it by FEB, 2008 (for broadcast purposes).
TFL!

[edDV]

I forgot to mention that the church wants to broadcast ASAP but budget is limited to two SD camcorders. We don't want to buy these SD camcorders now and then find out that we might not be able to use it by FEB, 2008 (for broadcast purposes).
TFL!

Talk to your cable company. SD won't be a problem for years to come. I haven't heard of anyone doing local access in HD. Even then they will still accept SD.

And don't forget to factor in editing software and an audio connection. Students and teachers can get the software at discount.

[Clevo89]

At the Australian Broadcasting Corp we use Digital SX betacam. The TV standard is at least digital betacam.

SD video shot by a camera using the typically non-broadcast quality mediums will not give the same quality results. I guess you figured that by the price tag on the cameras.

I don't think SD video can be sent down a HD cable using HD algorithyms. I'll need to check that but I know when australia switches to mandatory HD free to air TV there will be no more SD signals (currently we in Oz are sending two signals per channel..one SD and the other HD, though your set-top-box can differentiate between the two and process accordingly)

So I am going to say that an SD video cannot be sent down a HD line. (will check though)

With regards to a camera I think the broadcaster you are dealing with is best situated to give you the camera advice you need...and probably the contacts to get a better price

[edDV]

odalager is creating a program for broadcast over a local community cable system. The finished product will be a MiniDV tape that will be loaded to a video server for automated playback.

Cable systems are not affected by the broadcast switchover to digtal. The local access channels are unlikely to switch to high definition anytime soon because of bandwidth limitations. Even when they do, standard definition programs will still be accepted.

Prosumer level camcorders are typically used for community channels. Broadcast TV stations have higher minimum standards for submitted tapes.

[odalager]

Thanks for all the reply. You're all been helpful.
edDV is correct. The church's plan is make at least a DVD of the current worship service and then have it shown thru the local cable provider the following week. Nothing complicated really. No live broadcast. Basically, it's just capture, edit and then submit to the cable company.
It's only the switch-over to the HD next year that's holding us back. (In terms of what equipment to buy).

edDV, you recommended pd-170, is it better in low-light than the vx-2100? We'll be using Vegas to edit.

[edDV]

Thanks for all the reply. You're all been helpful.
edDV is correct. The church's plan is make at least a DVD of the current worship service and then have it shown thru the local cable provider the following week. Nothing complicated really. No live broadcast. Basically, it's just capture, edit and then submit to the cable company.
It's only the switch-over to the HD next year that's holding us back. (In terms of what equipment to buy).

edDV, you recommended pd-170, is it better in low-light than the vx-2100? We'll be using Vegas to edit.

The PD-170 (pro model) is similar in most ways that relate to your need but has 4 channel pro-audio interface capability similar to what the Beachtek adds (2 channel stereo) to the VX-2100 (consumer model). The PD-170 also has DVCAM format capability and more lens features that don't affect your application. If you were planning to field shoot with wireless mics, the PD-170 features would have value. For a fixed installation with audio board, the Beachtek + VX-2100 gets you there for less investment.

You will want to record the mixdown from your audio board as the service is recorded. Audio sync later is a pain.

The cable company probably has a spec sheet for what is acceptable for media input for the public access channel. Comcast here also requires the "producer" of the program to have training and certification from the public access channel before a program will be accepted for schedule. The producer is responsible for the quality of the production and for following the rules. Check all this out with the local cable company.


PS: If you don't have an audio board to mix the preacher, choir, congregation, etc. then you will need to get one.

[borisfan]

The Sony VX2100 is good but will need something like a Beachtek DXA-4 for audio connection
TFL!

I've actually been looking into these XLR camcorder adapters. Here's a summary of what I've found:

www.beachtek.com - Mounts to camera. Various passive adapters. Some with phantom and audio meter. New unit with preamp (DXA6HD).

www.juicedlink.com - Mounts to camera. All include preamplifier. Options include phantom, 2-4 XLR inputs, audio meter.

www.studio1productions.com - Doesn't mount to camera, and no phantom or preamp option. Option for 3 XLR input. Plastic case.

www.signvideo.com - Mounts to camera. No phantom or preamp option. 1 and 2 XLR input options.


The juicedLink website has an interesting demo video, showing how a preamp can reduce camcorder hiss while recording fine audio detail:
http://www.juicedlink.com/index_files/CX_camcorder_XLR_microphone_adapter_audio_mixers...comparison.htm

[edDV]

To complete your list with the quick/dirty solution add the Shure A96F balanced XLR to unbalanced mono mini mic connector transformer. This would require use of the camcorder mic level control. Two mics can be used with a two mono to stereo mini adapter. Prices have doubled recently to ~$50.
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/Accessories/us_pro_A96F_content