VCR buying guide (S-VHS / D-VHS / Professional)

[robjv1]

Or you can just get a used SVHS VCR and a used DVD recorder, just make sure you get good ones -- you don't necessarily have to get a capture card. DVD recorders can be easier to use for large projects -- but yes as you said, it's all a used market at this point.

eBay is a good place to look -- just make sure the seller has good feedback, has tested the unit, and offers a return policy, especially if the deck is very expensive. I think LS likes ecost.com a lot too, you probably could find a decent DVD recorder on there if you look often.

Are most of your tapes SP, LP, or EP? General opinion says that SP tapes play best on JVC and the Mitsubishi decks and the Panasonic AG-1980 is the one you want for EP tapes. Pioneer and JVC both made great DVD recorders (at one time, not any longer).

If your tapes have Macrovision, you are either going to need a TBC, a VCR with a full-frame TBC (as opposed to the line TBC most decks have), or a device that can remove Macrovision (the cheapest option, but not always 100% effective) to copy them to DVD.

[jefflbi]

I'm gonna say that most of my tapes are going to be a mix of SP/LP/EP. I figured I could just use a capture card and then use my DVD burner in my computer to make the DVDs. Guess I'll start looking on eBay for that AG-1980. Thanks a lot for the information!

[jefflbi]

Just wanna say, there is a whole page of AG-1980s on eBay, in varying price ranges, but there is actually a few that are brand new in the box!! But for $1500!!! That's a little rich for me. But the ones in the $300-$400 price range might be doable.

[robjv1]

Sounds good!

Capturing to a computer can be more complicated though. You'll need more software and possibly more equipment. Plus it takes some knowledge as to how to capture the video, in what format and bitrate, dealing with the quirks of the particular program you're using etc. If you already have some of those skills or possess the knowledge, or are interested in learning about it, then you'll be fine. The learning curve is high though -- it's going to take you some time and experimentation to get things how you want them.♦

[jefflbi]

I've been reading through some of the other topics in this forum, and you maybe right about capturing through the computer. I think I'm going to look into using a standalone burner and proc amp. I have a feeling I'll be perusing this forum for awhile.

[Bix]

Did anyone here ever use any of the Toshiba 6-head VCRs that had the "DNR Perfect" noise reduction? Toshiba tried to push them pretty hard in the late '90s.

[victoriabears]

Unless you want to spend alot of time, and are sufficiently motivated and interested and have "difficult" tapes, computer capture is hard work, and as to what is the best VCR, start with a 1980P, a good one, and if you do not see the quality you want try a jbv 9800 series, the Toshibas will be very rare.

[Seeker47]

Did anyone here ever use any of the Toshiba 6-head VCRs that had the "DNR Perfect" noise reduction? Toshiba tried to push them pretty hard in the late '90s.

Yes, I have one of these. It is in storage for the moment, so I'd have to check what the model # is, but I used this quite a bit for several years. Here are my comments: PQ was pretty good, but the DNR circuit was rather hit or miss. I left it Off some of the time, depending on whether I felt it helped or harmed in the immediate situation. But I would not say that it could really make a drastic improvement. This deck had probably the fastest FF / REW speeds I ever saw, along with safeguards for not damaging the tape by so doing. (It made a high-pitched whine while doing this.) Of the various brands and models of decks that I owned, I think this one was one of the two best at handling SLP material and tracking adjustments. These things were probably more of a claim to fame than its DNR.

I'm pretty sure this one was made in Japan: I tended to favor gear that was. Gives one a real nostalgia for those days . . . .

[notia]

hi to all,

i have read with lot of interest your thread about pro video recorders.

please, i am looking to locate any relevant information regarding the panasonic aj-d350 d3 pal but i couldnt find anything exept some very basic specifications and a japanese overall specifications in pdf.

i am a young multimedia producer and i am thinking to buy this particular model.

i am wondering if it is worthing today to buy such as vtr.

what is the lifespan of the video heads, drum of this model ?

can i found new parts also ?

any further details regading this model (aj-d350 d3) and any other comments or advice will be fully appreciated.

i really thanking you very much in advance

[Lodovico]

In addition to the JVC HM-DR10000MS mentioned on page 1 of this thread, does anyone have any recommendations for good, high-end machines that can handle SECAM playback? I have a large number of French tapes that I need to transfer and I'm looking for something better than the consumer-level SECAM VCRs that I'm currently using - the most tolerable of which is a Philips VR550/39.

I should mention that at least half the material I'm transferring is in black-and-white. I was hoping to use the best of my PAL VCRs for this (a Panasonic NV-HS960) but there seems to be some PAL/SECAM incompatibility even in monochrome, which is adding a pattern of high-frequency noise to the image. I don't think this is a Macrovision issue, and it happens on all my PAL VCRs when I play any French SECAM tape. NeatVideo is quite good at reducing the noise, but there's an inevitable loss of detail.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[orsetto]

It might be extremely difficult to get truly clean SECAM playback without access to professional $$$ tools. SECAM is the worlds bastard stepchild TV format, most of the consumer/prosumer VCR gear sold as "multistandard" does not really function 100% in SECAM mode. I've never looked too closely at SECAM since my friends live in PAL countries, but I would think it worthwhile to acquire a VCR made specifically for a SECAM country? France is pretty draconian about requiring absolute conformity with French standards for anything sold within its borders, if you live close enough perhaps you can make a day trip over and buy a dedicated French vcr or dvd/vcr combo? Or have a friend ship you one? I know its a ridiculous suggestion, but it might actually solve your problem.

[themaster1]

I got a good s-vhs vcr that can handle secam, but the thing is the TBC don't handle secam (that's what the manual says).
Since you tapes are black & white i believe there is hope for you to capture a decent signal without the infamous red/pink bar typical of a secam signal.

So conclusion just buy a s-vhs vcr that can handle secam (at least you can use the s-video plug and possibly the black & white mode) Have a look on ebay.fr

The model i have is a JVC HR-S8600MS (MS stand for mesecam which means it can handle the said format)

[Lodovico]

Thank you, orsetto and themaster1. I'll look out for that JVC S-VHS model and others with the MS suffix. I think that JVC models with the EU (Eastern Europe? - SECAM B) suffix may also serve my purpose, at least for the monochrome tapes - it would be great if someone could confirm that. French VHS tapes are SECAM L, I believe.

I have an external TBC (Prime Image Freeze II) so that's not a requirement for the VCR.

[lordsmurf]

I have an external TBC (Prime Image Freeze II) so that's not a requirement for the VCR.

TBCs inside VCRs do not do the same thing as external TBCs. Not the same!
Read this: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

[themaster1]

You should buy a vcr that's sold in france really, outside it's unreliable imo. The vhs standard in france is Secam B and Secam L is for over-the-air analog broadcasts (tv stations) soon to disapear since it's all digital nowadays

[edDV]

You should buy a vcr that's sold in france really, outside it's unreliable imo. The vhs standard in france is Secam B and Secam L is for over-the-air analog broadcasts (tv stations) soon to disapear since it's all digital nowadays

Please explain. Secam refers to the tuner not what is recorded to tape. There is no difference between a color under "SECAM" VHS tape and a "PAL" VHS tape. Both will play on PAL or SECAM players.

Am I missing something?

[themaster1]

Unreliable in the sense he may not get a vcr that will decode his tapes (secam b) because in the eastern countries they use differents variants of Secam.I never tried one of the said vcr's myself though.

I don't know the specifics , you got wikipedia for that. All i know is if you record an analog channel via your vcr over here it's Secam L and if you connect your vcr to a capture card , play back the recorded program you will indeed see written "Secam L" in the driver's "type of signal settings".Same goes for Secam B.

[ric9887]

What are the differences between the European models with a suffix of EU (for JVC 9850EU) and EH for a JVC HR-S9500EH, compared with the UK models with of JVC HR-S9500EK.
I am wondering if an EH model will work on a PAL UK TV, and play the UK Pal recorded tapes. ( I believe the UK models would also play NTSC)
Could it be that it means that a EH model - sold in Germany I believe, would have a language of German, or do these models all have options including English as a language ?

[lordsmurf]

As far as I can tell, 'E' means 'PAL' -- not 'Europe' because 'E' is used for Aussie models, too.

I've never see a VCR menu that wasn't in English, on the JVC S-VHS lines.

[themaster1]

I agree high end vcrs, such as s-vhs, always are multi language english, spannish, french, german, most common languages...There may are exceptions that confirm this rule i suppose.Careful though, the remote isn't multi language so you want to have the official vcr's manual in case you can't grasp what's written.

[fordluvr]

I've been lurking for some time and am driving myself mad trying to come to a conclusion here. I have a few dozen VHS tapes from the 1980s-early 90s that were recorded mostly with our family's pimpin' shoulder-mounted beast of a camera (make and model are lost to time). Others were recorded from various other sources, at various speeds, using various brands of media. The only things they all have in common are that they are old and in fair shape at best (say, 6 on a 1-10 scale).

Clearly I need a deck that can get the most quality out of these older tapes, especially the ones with moderate-to-severe tracking issues. Based on my lurking of the excellent advice on this site, I have narrowed my choices down to two camps:

• Panasonic AG-1980
• JVS HR-S9900U OR 9911U

My questions to the experts here are simple: based on my specific needs, am I on the right track here and, if so, which one of these should I purchase?

Many thanks in advance, and my apologies if this question has already been answered somewhere herein.

[orsetto]

Unfortunately there is no single clear answer to this question. The JVCs and the Panasonic 1980 are two sides of a coin, they are similar in some ways and very very different in others. Some tapes will only play well on the JVC, others only play well on the 1980. Most ordinary tapes will play reasonably OK, if not flawlessly, on either machine. But when you start in with "my tapes were made on goofy old shoulder mount camcorders whose models I can't remember" and "the average condition is 6 out of 10", you're out of range of "most typical average tapes". This kind of stuff can play like total crap on the JVC but fine on the Panasonic 1980, or vice versa. There is no way to know until you try one of them, and you might very well need both. My own (very subjective) take on this is to start with the 1980, it is a single model so no confusion of "which JVC to buy" and it had pretty consistent performance over the years (the many JVCs vary considerably model to model). The Panasonic 1980 tends to do better with mistracking camcorder tapes than the JVCs, and Panasonic made many full-size shoulder mount camcorders while JVC made none, so odds are your tapes are Panasonic to begin with. The Panasonic 1980 is a singular "known quantity" which is easy to resell if it doesn't work out for you, the JVCs can be a more difficult item to dispose of because each JVC fan has a different favorite model.

The JVCs become more attractive if you have many other tapes besides your full-size-camcorder problem tapes. If you also have a lot of stuff recorded on old regular VCRs, the JVC can often edge out the Pansonic 1980 at making those look nicer, but its unpredictable and depends on the tape and the specific JVC model. If you're leaning towards JVC, I would avoid the well-known SVHS models like 9900 and 9911: these are getting very old and were not made all that well to begin with. The 9911 in particular is a seriously crummy VCR mechanically, its a dead-bottom-of-the-line plastic craptastic machine with an expensive board of premium video processors added to it. I'd suggest going with a much more recent JVC DVHS model instead, these are a bit harder to locate but sometimes still available new from online vendors. The mechanics are better and they track better. They were overpriced when new and were slaughtered by DVD, so most of the second-hand ones you see for sale on eBay or Craigs List were owned by folks with money who never used them much. By contrast, at this point most of the "legendary" JVC svhs models you see for sale have changed hands among VH members so many times it isn't funny, who knows what shape it'll be in. The newer, less-cult-revered JVC DVHS is a much better risk, and they hold their resale value: DVHS has a cult of its own among some HDTV archivists.

[victoriabears]

I have a variety of vhs tapes recorded, sadly, in slp, on Toshiba, panasonic and GE machines which DO play better on the 1980P, when connnected to a JVC M100 DVD recorder through a TBC (Either TBC1000 or AVT 8710) very rarely do longer play look better, on the JVC 9911 or SV10. I would start with a good 1980P and go from there, but the DVD recorder does make a lot of difference, and I have tried Toshiba rd xs 32, Pioneer 650H , Pansonic and the JVC is the best if working properly, now nearly impossible to find though.

[robjv1]

I agree with Orsetto, I think you can really only begin to tackle all the potential problems of VHS tapes when you realize you need to own more than one model. Ideally you can buy the JVC and the Panasonic and a nice sturdy run-of-the mill VCR with no fancy features for the tapes that won't play in either.

If you are really anal you can get into cherry picking the best footage from each deck and editing it together in an NLE. My typical process with tapes that have to be perfect is that I run them through my JVC with the TBC on. Then I watch the video and take notes on the problems -- audio problems, jumpy frames, tracking, etc. and then I go back through and fix them, usually by making a second version with the TBC off (which itself can cause it's own issues), taking care to color correct it to match the first version, as the colors often slightly vary when toggling the TBC. It's a painstaking process, but you'll get your footage in as good as possible shape. Some things in life are a simple matter of quality over quantity, but with VCRs you might need both.

[fordluvr]

Thanks, guys. It sounds like there's no magic bullet for my media, so I'll start with one deck and pick up the others if the results aren't acceptable. I've also considered getting a pro service to do it for me, but with several dozen tapes that gets pretty pricey. I suppose I may change my tune once I'm knee deep in it, but I'm at least going to give it the old college try first. Thanks again for your help ad advice. I'm sure it won't be the last time I'll be needing it.

[robjv1]

Yeah, I think your satisfaction will depend a lot on your expectations. If you expect to find a deck to play a tape perfectly, you'll be disappointed, because you'll always be able to find something wrong with the transfer that can be improved upon.

Then again, there are some people that run a crappy old tape through a crappy VCR and into a terrible DVD recorder at some atrocious bitrate and call it a day, but not too many folks on this site

[RedRaider]

I'd like to give a HUGE thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, what a wealth of information I gained in making two recent purchases to begin my adventure in converting my S-VHS / VHS collection into the digital realm.

I decided to go with the following two machines:

Mitsubishi HS-HD200U
Panasonic AG-1980

Both of these machines are top notch and man do my tapes look much better than what I've experienced with my Mitsubishi HS-U748. I am seeing a difference between playback in the HD2000 and AG-1980, they both have definate strengths and weaknesses.

Now to decide on a few more pieces of hardware and which software to use.

[Undead Sega]

Ever thought of adding the Panasonic NV-HS1000???

[schematic2]

Hi
My findings....... for what its worth!

I have:
2 AG-1980 Pana
2 AG-1970 Pana
2 HR-s9800u JVC
1 HR-s9911u JVC
1 SLVr1000 Sony
1 HV-mX1 Aiwa
1 DH30000u JVC
1 HR-DVS1u JVC
1 SR-VS10 JVC

As mentioned, each has their uses. My advice to everyone is to STAY AWAY from JVC's "Dynamic Drum" It is very prone to failure, and its claim to fame is not useable for average users. It does what should never be done....muck with the tape path. I have 2 HR-s9800u which have both failed from this feature. I managed to fool the unit into accepting a drum assembly from a 9911u. I've repaired most of my VCRs, as they are getting harder to find.

Also stay away from AG-1970. It does give good video, but has a belly full of gears just waiting to strip. The AG-1980 looks almost identical, but has a much more reliable mechanical system.

One last piece of advice......unplug them when not in use, and save your electronics!

[JLG/JLG]

I have hundreds of VHS to transfer to DVD, mostly recorded directly from TV but from a multitude of sources and not always in SP. I've realized I need another player to supplement the Panasonic AG1980 to Pioneer DVR-560 setup, and like the Panny, this player will only be used for doing transfers. It sounds like a D-VHS is my best bet, and that the Mitsubishi isn't as good as the JVCs, so basically I'm having a hard time determining which JVC to get. Is there any real difference in the playback quality a JVC HM-DH30000U, HM-DH40000U, HM-DH5U, SR-VD400US, or any other model they may have will deliver, or are the differences pretty much stuff that isn't going to matter for my project?
I'm guessing this isn't an issue with a better JVC, but I've always avoided all their VCRs since I had 3 different new HR-S3902U back in the day and right out of the box none of them would provide proper Hi-Fi audio, even on their own recordings. With each one, I had to play everything in mono or I would get distortion as if the tape wasn't properly tracked.